What if your Driver Said This About the Daytona 500?

joe h said:
I'll take nascars lottery system over f1s crown a champion before the first practice session. Both are a farce, but watching a f1 race and hoping for a different result is a foolish waste of time. Indy has a good mix right now, but they're the red headed stepchild of the racing world.
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They didn't used to be. They used to be way more inventive running prototypes and Wankle engines and such, at one time with different manufactures building a bunch of cool inventive race cars . Then it became a series and after a few years someone had the brite idea to have everyone race the same damned cars. I'd love to see Alonso bring his own car to see if it fares to the IndyCars. Bet the Indy 500 would be a sell out with standing room only if that could happen, but Indy Car is too stupid to do such a thing.
 
Your attempt at humor is pathetic.


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Charlie Spencer said:
Nobody passes anyone. It may be short and gimmick-free, but it's a parade. Great hardware, crappy entertainment.

I remember a guy on an F1 forum telling I didn't understand that F1 is all about the QUALIFYING! Geez, then why even run the race?
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2015 excluded, 2011-2016 actually had the most passing F1 has seen in a long time, maybe ever. Even more than the early 1980's. But a lot of people were turned off nonetheless because 1) Red Bull and then Mercedes largely dominated overall over those years and/or 2) it's not the type of passing that people want to see.

Qualifying is not the end-all, be-all but it's certainly more important than in NASCAR and there are certain tracks (Monaco, Albert Park, Hungaroring...) where it's a lot more important as well.
 
blue92 said:
They didn't used to be. They used to be way more inventive running prototypes and Wankle engines and such, at one time with different manufactures building a bunch of cool inventive race cars . Then it became a series and after a few years someone had the brite idea to have everyone race the same damned cars. I'd love to see Alonso bring his own car to see if it fares to the IndyCars. Bet the Indy 500 would be a sell out with standing room only if that could happen, but Indy Car is too stupid to do such a thing.
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Not financially viable.
 
FLRacingFan said:
2015 excluded, 2011-2016 actually had the most passing F1 has seen in a long time, maybe ever. Even more than the early 1980's. But a lot of people were turned off nonetheless because 1) Red Bull and then Mercedes largely dominated overall over those years and/or 2) it's not the type of passing that people want to see. ...
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What type of passing is it, that people don't want to see it? I'm happy with passing on the straights, braking zones, pit road, inside, outside, clean, bump and run, etc.

I'll admit it's been a couple of years since I watched any F1 besides Monaco, and that only because it's on Memorial Day before the I500. Maybe they have had the most passing for F1 in recent years, but that's a relative comparison to itself. It doesn't help that I can't tell which car is which without having to constantly refer to the spotter guide, but that's a personal issue. The graphics aren't very informative to the newbie or casual fan.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
What type of passing is it, that people don't want to see it? I'm happy with passing on the straights, braking zones, pit road, inside, outside, clean, bump and run, etc.

I'll admit it's been a couple of years since I watched any F1 besides Monaco, and that only because it's on Memorial Day before the I500. Maybe they have had the most passing for F1 in recent years, but that's a relative comparison to itself. It doesn't help that I can't tell which car is which without having to constantly refer to the spotter guide, but that's a personal issue. The graphics aren't very informative to the newbie or casual fan.
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Purely overtaking figures don't include position changes due to pit stops, among other things. A lot of fans would prefer passing to be challenging, ballsy, and unassisted and are turned off by passing assisted by DRS and, to a lesser extent, the various tire compounds. China last weekend had a good display of the former, largely from Vettel and Verstappen.
 
FLRacingFan said:
... A lot of fans would prefer passing to be challenging, ballsy, and unassisted and are turned off by passing assisted by DRS and, to a lesser extent, the various tire compounds. China last weekend had a good display of the former, largely from Vettel and Verstappen.
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I have hard time understanding the various tire compound complaints. It forces teams to manage resources. I also prefer to see a race with some natural built in transitions. Were different strategies get the challenge.
Thats the beautiful thing about tire wear and degradation, it can do all of those things and it also magnifies closing speed which is very underrated imo.

Close competition is great but absolute pairity has a built in stagnantion of it's own. There needs to be some contrast, and tire wear is one of the best ways to accomplish that goal imo.

I like no fueling too, a good weight transition issue as well, but thats more linear were everyone looses at a similar rate. Back to the tires being the best variable imo.
 
Greg said:
I have hard time understanding the various tire compound complaints. It forces teams to manage resources...

Close competition is great but absolute pairity has a built in stagnantion of it's own. There needs to be some contrast, and tire wear is one of the best ways to accomplish that goal imo.
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I agree with this. And that is why I am strongly in favor of the low downforce rules we have, and taking it even further by reducing side force in the (hopefully) near future. By making the cars harder to drive fast, and putting the race more in the hands of the drivers, that allows the best drivers to rise to the top more often. When the cars are skittish at turn-in and require feathering the throttle off the corner, then driver skill can overcome the inherent parity of the cars. And tire degradation would have been an added spice.

The Texas race was a good example. Tons of passing, despite the brand new pavement and the narrow groove. I watched the Texas race again Friday evening, and it was a better race than I first thought. And it was very clear... Speed was King... more important than clean air.
 
Formula 1 is about driving the ultimate car, not racing. They try to throw nationalism and constructors into the mix to get people angy and mad before they even get to the track. Their technical perfection is boring. Their pit stops are irrelevant, four dudes handling their tire like a baby kitten before they put it on and hit the screw.

Formula 1 is like watching Women's ice skating in the olympics, with their 'stunning' outfits, flamboyant yet technical detail, and quick routines. NASCAR is like watching UFC with letting the "boys have at it", and you know someone is going to get slammed.

There really is no comparison. NASCAR is racing. Formula 1 is an uber-expensive go-kart parade.
 
Greg said:
I have hard time understanding the various tire compound complaints. It forces teams to manage resources. I also prefer to see a race with some natural built in transitions. Were different strategies get the challenge.
Thats the beautiful thing about tire wear and degradation, it can do all of those things and it also magnifies closing speed which is very underrated imo.

Close competition is great but absolute pairity has a built in stagnantion of it's own. There needs to be some contrast, and tire wear is one of the best ways to accomplish that goal imo.

I like no fueling too, a good weight transition issue as well, but thats more linear were everyone looses at a similar rate. Back to the tires being the best variable imo.
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I agree, you get to choose how many of each set you put in your weekend allotment anyways so there's not a whole lot of room to complain. DRS is the ultimate band-aid though, but it seems to be making less of a difference so far this year.
 
My biggest complaint with different tire compounds is when the rules mandate that minimum number of sets of some or all compounds must be used, or that only a limited number of a compound is available. IF different compounds are to be offered, leave it completely up to the crew chiefs to decide what to use or not use.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
My biggest complaint with different tire compounds is when the rules mandate that minimum number of sets of some or all compounds must be used, or that only a limited number of a compound is available. IF different compounds are to be offered, leave it completely up to the crew chiefs to decide what to use or not use.
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That makes sense. Not much of an option tire if it's not an option. :idunno:
 
Yeah, but it's a bitch on the supplier. Say Chief A wants all his sets of compound #1, Chief B wants them all of #2, and Chief C want half his tires #3, and the other half with lefts for #4 and rights of #5.

From a supplier viewpoint, I don't see the advantages to supporting a series with multiple compounds. None of them are going into regular production. From a CC's view, it's just something else to manage; why toss more variables into the mix. From this fan's angle, what's in it for me in the stands / easy chair? Just something else to second guess on Monday morning.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Yeah, but it's a bitch on the supplier. Say Chief A wants all his sets of compound #1, Chief B wants them all of #2, and Chief C want half his tires #3, and the other half with lefts for #4 and rights of #5.

From a supplier viewpoint, I don't see the advantages to supporting a series with multiple compounds. None of them are going into regular production. From a CC's view, it's just something else to manage; why toss more variables into the mix. From this fan's angle, what's in it for me in the stands / easy chair? Just something else to second guess on Monday morning.
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Goodyear regularly shows up for a race weekend with over 4,000 tires for 2 series ... more if all 3 are running at the same track.
 
If I could actually drive a Racecar with skill, top on my list would be an F1 car. They are the king of Racecars...... 80's F1 was the best for me (like Winston Cup) .
 
All F1 needs is a scattered caution flag and bunch them up behind the pace car. Did I just say I'm in favor of cautions ?????
 
If every NASCAR big league race were a plate race at Daytona/Talledega, then you could argue the two series were equally ridiculous.

It never ceases to amaze me that our "premier" race is a plate farce. Thank gosh for the smaller circuits.
 
Formula 1 karts look like insects, with delicate pieces all around them. Ridiculous.

You'll never get them to go after each other a full race; all they do is hot laps next to each other with an occasional flare up as they litter the track with their edgy delicate uber-expensive bits and pieces.

And then the Race Stewards get involved before the drivers start to cat fight and mess up each other's hair and makeup.

I'll take Daytona over any F1 race...
 
harkin said:
If every NASCAR big league race were a plate race at Daytona/Talledega, then you could argue the two series were equally ridiculous.

It never ceases to amaze me that our "premier" race is a plate farce. Thank gosh for the smaller circuits.
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A true authority on the subject will check in shortly and tell us all the “racing” has never been better.

That includes the events of Daytona ‘toner ‘n Talladega ‘deger.
 
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