What is nascar thinking?

FenderBumper

The "good old days" ??
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Huge 25-car pileups, such as the one on the final lap at Talladega Superspeedway last October, might be a thing of the past with the new 2013 Sprint Cup car.
That’s because if they remain unstable, there won’t be enough cars left to have a last-lap wreck.

New car unstable in draft
The cars are unstable, and anyone who tested at Talladega last October knew that.
What happened in the test session Friday shouldn’t have been a surprise as the curved front bumpers make it much more difficult to push-draft. Dale Earnhardt Jr. turned Marcos Ambrose to start a 12-car crash on Day 2 of the test.
Jeff Burton knew it would happen. That’s why he didn’t participate in the 20-car drafting session. He knew that with the bumpers not aligning well and the tiny 53-inch-wide rear spoiler that the cars would be unstable if they got a push.
“There will be wrecks in the Daytona 500,” Burton said. “I guarantee you that. And I guarantee in the last 100 miles there will be more than in the first 400. The question is how bad are the cars going to handle? That’s just something we don’t know yet.
“Right now, they’re going to handle bad.”
NASCAR officials believe that drivers will simply decide not to push, but that’s difficult because a push can help cars get to the front. Jeff Gordon said it is tempting to push even though they shouldn’t be doing it.
“We have gotten so comfortable with running on one another’s bumpers, pushing and being able to do that,” he said. “You have to kind of reset a little bit and go back to the way we used to do it where you get close and you still gain momentum and push guys but with the air and not necessarily the bumpers.”
Earnhardt felt his Chevrolet was OK pushing a Toyota but had trouble working with Fords. But drivers in Fords don’t think it is a manufacturer thing.
Greg Biffle, in a Ford, said he tried to push the Chevrolets of Jamie McMurray and Earnhardt and the Ford of Casey Mears and once they wobbled, he lifted and they didn’t wreck.
“I guess I better not push that much because I’m going to end up wrecking somebody. … You can push delicately,” Biffle said. “I pushed (them) most of the way down the straightaway easy and I saw they were all over the place.
“I recognize that it’s hard. But you can’t just cram your foot to the floor and just shove the guy because the guy in front can’t drive it. And that’s what happened back there (Friday).”
So what’s the answer for the Daytona 500?
“There definitely is attrition (in this style),” Mark Martin lamented. “Hopefully we’ve gotten smart like we saw at Talladega and start wrecking with 10 to go.”
Biffle explains what would be smart:
“You can elect to get out of the gas and not keep going,” Biffle said. “If you’ve got a guy wobbling, you’re the one that has to make the decision what to try to do to fix it.”
RCR teams happy

Led by Burton, who posted the second-fastest single-car lap at 194.620 mph, Richard Childress Racing left Daytona quite happy as its cars were strong throughout testing. They were consistently among the fastest cars right off the truck.
“It’s encouraging,” Burton said. “I’m cautiously optimistic.”
New competition director Dr. Eric Warren had a separate testing plan for each of the four RCR cars, creating a more integrated working environment among the teams.
“You don’t want to come down here and run bad,” said Kevin Harvick. “I think there are still a lot of unknowns in getting the cars through inspection and knowing exactly what is right and what is wrong.
“It’s gone good. Everybody has done their own thing. We’ll put it all together when we get back and see where we’re at.”
Earnhardt Childress Racing engine builder Danny Lawrence was all smiles. He said RCR didn’t bring its best engines and the teams have better equipment for the Daytona 500.
“We’re definitely not in a panic mode like we have been before down here when you’ve done all you can do and you’re in the back,” Lawrence said.
Ford teams not so happy

If there was an organization that appeared behind the other manufacturers, it was Ford.
No more than two Fords were in the top 10 of single-car speeds in any of the first five sessions during the test. Biffle eventually posted the top speed at 194.936 mph but that was late in the weekend when most of the teams already had stopped testing.
With no tech and different agendas for different teams, not too much should be put into the speeds. But those who don’t appear as strong left scratching their heads.
“You can only guess what people are doing for tape and spoilers and how legal they are,” said Roush Yates Engines CEO Doug Yates. “Are we a tenth (of a second) off? Two-tenths? Three-tenths? … We’ve always wanted to come down here and have good single-car speed.
“It’s a pretty good indicator. All we can do is go back and work on our program.”
One piece of work will be to get the car in the wind tunnel. The Roush Fenway Racing cars hadn’t even been in the wind tunnel before the test.
Big excuse: We’re behind

Oh woe is me. That will be the refrain of many crews in the garage and any driver who wrecks early in the season as teams try to get 2013 cars built. The body styles are all different in order to have more manufacturer identity.
There is a shortage of decklids and hoods. Decklids are being made by only one NASCAR-approved vendor (Composite Resources) at a rate of 50 a week.
Each manufacturer has its own hood manufacturer. Crawford Composites, which made the rear wings when the car of tomorrow was introduced, is making them for Toyota; Roush Industries is making them for Ford; and Five Star Race Car Bodies is making them for Chevrolet.
Sure, teams are behind. But considering that the Daytona 500 isn’t until Feb. 24, that gives them enough time to get cars ready for the season.
“It’s a fact that there’s a lack of inventory,” NASCAR Vice President of Competition Robin Pemberton said. “We know where we’re at. It’s on everybody’s part whether it’s delivery dates on sheet metal, decklids or hoods.
“If you look on (future) delivery dates, we should be in good shape.”
Another key element: The decklids are interchangeable no matter the type of track, meaning that teams can get by with just a few decklids early in the season.
Daytona 500 field taking shape

With 35 cars testing, how many teams will show up for the Daytona 500?
Expect somewhere between 45-50. Among the drivers who didn’t test but are expected to attempt to qualify for the Daytona 500 are Michael Waltrip (for Swan Racing), David Ragan, David Gilliland, Brian Keselowski, Joe Nemechek, J.J. Yeley and Terry Labonte.
BK Racing, which had one car at the test for Travis Kvapil and David Reutimann, hopes to have two cars and possibly three at the Daytona 500 with Kvapil, Reutimann and Landon Cassill as its possible drivers.
 
I am happy to hear the cars are unstable. This to me equates to the drivers having to be on their toes to stay on top of the cars. No more cruising around for 350 miles and then start racing.
 
I am happy to hear the cars are unstable. This to me equates to the drivers having to be on their toes to stay on top of the cars. No more cruising around for 350 miles and then start racing.
To me it sounds like ALOT of single file train racing.
 
An interesting read Fender Bender. I have wondered why Nascar allows cars to bump each other especially at the super speedways. We now see feuds between certain drivers who will take another driver out of the race for payback.. It seems to me that with safer walls, race cars offering better protection, they now have become "weapons" for getting even rather than cocoons of safety! Maybe Nascar needs to black flack cars for bumping. Would this improve the sport? Let the fastest cars race for a win without being bumped out of the way. It sounds like the Gen 6 race cars are designed for NO rear bumping. I wonder how this will play out. Just a thought.
 
An interesting read Fender Bender. I have wondered why Nascar allows cars to bump each other especially at the super speedways. We now see feuds between certain drivers who will take another driver out of the race for payback.. It seems to me that with safer walls, race cars offering better protection, they now have become "weapons" for getting even rather than cocoons of safety! Maybe Nascar needs to black flack cars for bumping. Would this improve the sport? Let the fastest cars race for a win without being bumped out of the way. It sounds like the Gen 6 race cars are designed for NO rear bumping. I wonder how this will play out. Just a thought.

That's called open wheel racing:D

They'll figure it out by the time they get back down there. IMO Jr didn't give Ambrose the squarest push when the wreck happened. I'm not to concerned.......yet.
 
To me it sounds like ALOT of single file train racing.

That's what I'm afraid of. There is still aero push, and these cars may wreck from being side drafted. That could leave us with a spread out parade until they all wreck at the end.
 
This is not anything new . And it's not a grand plot by Nascar or anyone else.These cars are unstable at close to 200mph. In any form. This new car has a lot of work needed to make it more stable . The only way to make it really stable is to get the speeds down by 20-20mph. And that ain't gonna happen.
 
The one and only solution would be to reduce the banking at the RP tracks and get rid of the plates but that will never happen. But people would complain that they miss plate racing.
I LOVE plate racing. I'm glad they make up a part of the schedule just like the road courses. Mix it up a bit.
 
I LOVE plate racing. I'm glad they make up a part of the schedule just like the road courses. Mix it up a bit.
Exactly. Just another form of racing on the schedule like the road courses. The anticipation for this race far exceeds all others for me. They don't need to fix anything, they just need to race. Throw the green flag and the first to the checkered will be the winner, just like all the other events. How they get there and what happens is all just part of the story surrounding the event. I like seeing the double digit green flag lead changes that I don't get to see in many other races. I like the edge of my seat excitement of the close quarters racing. Something can happen at any moment. We all know that going in and so do the drivers. I like that teams use such polar opposite strategies. Put your nads on the dash and run up front or tuck them away and run the rear of the field. Fortunately, I have a driver that likes to do the former and that adds a lot to the race for me. That's all part of restrictor plate racing for me.

Right now, leading up to this event is about the only part of the year that I really don't like. The predictable nonstop whining about restrictor plate racing. It's not so bad for the other three times during the year with only a week leading up to the event. This one just exaggerates all of that stuff.

There's the ever original, 'this isn't racing' rant. Then there's the 'remove the plates' rant. Then there's the one about how we need to 'fix the track'. We've also got the one about how we need to 'slow the cars down'. And how about the one where 'NASCAR wants them to wreck'? That's always a good one. I'm sure I'm missing a dozen more or so. Everyone's got a fix for something that isn't broken.

The overwhelming majority of race fans like the restrictor plate racing. Doubt it? Look it up. I did. Take a look at the increase in ratings when Daytona or Talladega are televised.

I was thinking that now might just be the time to start the Rate The Race - Daytona 500 thread since many seemed to have already made up their mind. I try to go into every race as a fan with optimism, anticipating it to be one to remember. It looks like many take the opposite approach.
 
Exactly. Just another form of racing on the schedule like the road courses. The anticipation for this race far exceeds all others for me. They don't need to fix anything, they just need to race. Throw the green flag and the first to the checkered will be the winner, just like all the other events. How they get there and what happens is all just part of the story surrounding the event. I like seeing the double digit green flag lead changes that I don't get to see in many other races. I like the edge of my seat excitement of the close quarters racing. Something can happen at any moment. We all know that going in and so do the drivers. I like that teams use such polar opposite strategies. Put your nads on the dash and run up front or tuck them away and run the rear of the field. Fortunately, I have a driver that likes to do the former and that adds a lot to the race for me. That's all part of restrictor plate racing for me.

Right now, leading up to this event is about the only part of the year that I really don't like. The predictable nonstop whining about restrictor plate racing. It's not so bad for the other three times during the year with only a week leading up to the event. This one just exaggerates all of that stuff.

There's the ever original, 'this isn't racing' rant. Then there's the 'remove the plates' rant. Then there's the one about how we need to 'fix the track'. We've also got the one about how we need to 'slow the cars down'. And how about the one where 'NASCAR wants them to wreck'? That's always a good one. I'm sure I'm missing a dozen more or so. Everyone's got a fix for something that isn't broken.

The overwhelming majority of race fans like the restrictor plate racing. Doubt it? Look it up. I did. Take a look at the increase in ratings when Daytona or Talladega are televised.

I was thinking that now might just be the time to start the Rate The Race - Daytona 500 thread since many seemed to have already made up their mind. I try to go into every race as a fan with optimism, anticipating it to be one to remember. It looks like many take the opposite approach.
Good post, DP. I know that not all fans like plate racing and that's ok. I'm not really that into road courses myself, but I know that we need them because it's good to have adversity in racing. Some fans love road course races, some love short track races, and some love the big track plate races. My two favorite races are Daytona and Talladega, but I still enjoy all the rest of the races too.
 
I am happy to hear the cars are unstable. This to me equates to the drivers having to be on their toes to stay on top of the cars. No more cruising around for 350 miles and then start racing.

That's an interesting take on it. I hope you're right. I really liked the tandem because it had enough drama for me and plenty of lead changes. When they did wreck, it was just a few cars involved. We had some of the most dramatic finishes ever with the tandem, even when it was reduced to just a couple of laps. Remember Tony side drafting Biffle and seperating him from Matt for the win? That was great racing where one driver used strategy and flawless execution to beat a tandem.

We had so many lead changes and close finishes, it's confounding to think the fans didn't like it. :confused: So nascar had to do take out 500 lbs of downforce and speed the cars up to bring back 'the big one' and please the demo-derby crowd, because the higher speeds will insure lots of wrecks. Just to be sure things would get messy, nascar mandated softer rear springs so the spoiler would drop down and become totally useless.

It's odd to hear people get excited about bringing back adjustments and handeling. :confused: If there is some magic trackbar or air pressure adjustment that can replace the lost downforce, I would be interested in hearing it. I guess I'll have to embrace the carnage, because we won't see much racing with this setup.
 
That's an interesting take on it. I hope you're right. I really liked the tandem because it had enough drama for me and plenty of lead changes. When they did wreck, it was just a few cars involved. We had some of the most dramatic finishes ever with the tandem, even when it was reduced to just a couple of laps. Remember Tony side drafting Biffle and seperating him from Matt for the win? That was great racing where one driver used strategy and flawless execution to beat a tandem.

We had so many lead changes and close finishes, it's confounding to think the fans didn't like it. :confused: So nascar had to do take out 500 lbs of downforce and speed the cars up to bring back 'the big one' and please the demo-derby crowd, because the higher speeds will insure lots of wrecks. Just to be sure things would get messy, nascar mandated softer rear springs so the spoiler would drop down and become totally useless.

It's odd to hear people get excited about bringing back adjustments and handeling. :confused: If there is some magic trackbar or air pressure adjustment that can replace the lost downforce, I would be interested in hearing it. I guess I'll have to embrace the carnage, because we won't see much racing with this setup.

I didn't mind the tandem either. The speeds and runs a tandem was able to achieve was cool to see. I thought it brought a new element to it. Pack or tandem though, I enjoy the super speedways. It's like a separate 4 race season to me.
 
It's Daytona and the first race of the year. Dont give a damn if they add 2 more restrictor plates, remove the spoiler and windshield and knock down the banking. The same as I've been doing for many many years I'll ignore the negative bullcrap and enjoy the hell out of the race. As DP says " Put your nads on the dash and run up front or tuck them away and run the rear of the field" either way I'll be very happily watching and drinking a BL or two. :D
 
The biggest thing about Daytona to me is that it starts the season. But, I would prefer Martinsville any day of the week.

It should be impossible to flat foot any track. Make it impossible, and make them work the car as in both the brakes and accelerator to get around any track. I like the Jenn 6 cars being harder to drive and it cant hurt the already afflicted RP racing.

Screw the viewer numbers, I knows what's best for the people. And Jenn6 sounds better than Gen6 as well.
 
That's an interesting take on it. I hope you're right. I really liked the tandem because it had enough drama for me and plenty of lead changes. When they did wreck, it was just a few cars involved. We had some of the most dramatic finishes ever with the tandem, even when it was reduced to just a couple of laps. Remember Tony side drafting Biffle and seperating him from Matt for the win? That was great racing where one driver used strategy and flawless execution to beat a tandem.

We had so many lead changes and close finishes, it's confounding to think the fans didn't like it. :confused:
I wasn't nuts about the tandem but I preferred it over the big pack because, as FB noted, at least there were fewer cars involved in the inevitable wreck. Sorry, I abhor plate racing. It's crippling the car, like running the Kentucky Derby with hobbled horses. Knock the banking down and / or use the road course.
 
I like the idea of no points for plate racing. make it a big money deal with some kind of twist.
 
It should be impossible to flat foot any track. Make it impossible, and make them work the car as in both the brakes and accelerator to get around any track. I like the Jenn 6 cars being harder to drive and it cant hurt the already afflicted RP racing.

There ya go!
Give the drivers tires as hard a bowling balls so that they have no grip.
Take away to spoilers so that they have no rear downforce.
Take away the destructor plates so they have the full horsepower compliment.
Return the outcome to the drivers instead of dumb luck (can you say Trevor Bayne?).
It would be like dirt racing on a 2.5 mile oval.
End of problem!
 
There ya go!
Give the drivers tires as hard a bowling balls so that they have no grip.
Take away to spoilers so that they have no rear downforce.
Take away the destructor plates so they have the full horsepower compliment.
Return the outcome to the drivers instead of dumb luck (can you say Trevor Bayne?).
It would be like dirt racing on a 2.5 mile oval.
End of problem!
Did you leave out rear windows on purpose?
 
Take away the destructor plates so they have the full horsepower compliment.
I'd agree with you, but that's not safely possible the way the RP tracks are currently configured. Remember why the plates are there: to keep cars from possibly getting through the fence and into the stands.
 
I'd agree with you, but that's not safely possible the way the RP tracks are currently configured. Remember why the plates are there: to keep cars from possibly getting through the fence and into the stands.
Ah Charlie ,Charlie. Your first Daytona on the board . It's like first day of school for the kids . If you quickly delete that post before Robbie sees it, we may have another week before the giant restrictor plate debate.:D
 
I'd agree with you, but that's not safely possible the way the RP tracks are currently configured. Remember why the plates are there: to keep cars from possibly getting through the fence and into the stands.

With no grip and no downforce, the speeds would not be nearly as high as they are now -
because drivers would actually have to lift off the throttle in order to "safely" navigate the turns.

Ah Charlie ,Charlie. Your first Daytona on the board . It's like first day of school for the kids . If you quickly delete that post before Robbie sees it, we may have another week before the giant restrictor plate debate.:D

...too late... ;)

Maybe if the track was wet??? That might be fun to watch!
 
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