What made Espn's 1990's broadcasts so good?

W

Wildthing

Guest
It seems like NBC and FOX gets ALOT of criticism , which it fully deserves.

Even though technology has advanced so much since ESPN televised NASCAR in the 90s it seems like the brodcasts have gone nowhere but downhill

I've watched a few ESPN telecasts on youtube from the 90s and it really is amazing how 25 years ago the broadcasts were SO MUCH BETTER

My question is how has it gone downhill so much? With all the technology now, it should be easier to make the broadcasts that much better

Is it because Bob, Benny and Ned had such great chemistry?

I have noticed that those 3 never talked ot the fans like they were stupid. They talked like they knew the fans were knowledgeable about the sport.
 
It's a lot of things, but I think it's important to say nostalgia probably is a huge factor in these things. I love the 90s stuff but that's where I started so that's probably the big reason.

There was no hype. They let the action speak for itself. No artificial drama or anything. Heck they wouldn't even speculate many on track incidents between a couple rivals. At most they would mention these guys have a little history and they'd chuckle a little and move on waiting for a possible interview from drivers involved.

Today you got the booth trying to act like they were just driving the two cars that may have collided in the current yellow. They've taken a huge "know it all" standpoint and the listeners ear can get tired of that quickly... we get they've been around and done it all, but leave room for wondering what may or may not have happened... that would keep us all tuned in and not get bored.

A bunch of things like that.

However, the coverage back then even as much as I like going back to watch it... it was not perfect. They missed tons of moments on track like people complain of today. Honestly there were too many times there wasn't a replay of how a car got sent to the garage.

If a fan who didn't see the 90s NASCAR pulls up a race from back then, they'd probably point a lot of this stuff out quickly because to them there's no nostalgia getting in the way. I just think a lot of stuff like that looks better in the rear view mirror, but I believe the similarities are there between a 90s broadcast and something of today.

If the booth would stop trying the know every last little thing beating us to death with how good they were in a race car, we might feel a little different on the coverage.
 
I enjoyed ESPN in the 80's and 90's for many reasons. Ned, Bob and Benny were 3 different characters that clearly enjoyed what they were doing and each did their jobs well. Bob had a great broadcast voice and could be serious but also laugh at himself. Ned was all business and at times you could hear his stop watch clicking away as he timed laps and Benny was knowledgeable but also another guy who was genuine and could laugh at himself. These guys complimented each other as opposed to being in competition with each other and didn't talk incessantly for no reason.

As far as the camera work goes it was advanced for the time with the helicopter giving great overhead shots as well as different angles from in and outside of the car. I never had any issues with ESPN missing wrecks or incidents like NBC did the past Saturday.

Overall the broadcasts let the races tell whatever story was to be told and there was no consideration for drama or narratives being jammed down the viewers throats.
 
The current trend of the guys in the booth needing more volume, and constant chattering, really kills mood for a lot of us sitting at home. And fewer cameras are better, especially when all the extra cameras are pointed at anything other than the race, although the brake rotor camera from martinsville in the '90s will always remain my favorite. Also espn, and tnn, were typically awarded races at the smaller tracks, meaning higher likelihood of a better overall race.
 
JohnHill said:
It's a lot of things, but I think it's important to say nostalgia probably is a huge factor in these things. I love the 90s stuff but that's where I started so that's probably the big reason.

There was no hype. They let the action speak for itself. No artificial drama or anything. Heck they wouldn't even speculate many on track incidents between a couple rivals. At most they would mention these guys have a little history and they'd chuckle a little and move on waiting for a possible interview from drivers involved.

Today you got the booth trying to act like they were just driving the two cars that may have collided in the current yellow. They've taken a huge "know it all" standpoint and the listeners ear can get tired of that quickly... we get they've been around and done it all, but leave room for wondering what may or may not have happened... that would keep us all tuned in and not get bored.

A bunch of things like that.

However, the coverage back then even as much as I like going back to watch it... it was not perfect. They missed tons of moments on track like people complain of today. Honestly there were too many times there wasn't a replay of how a car got sent to the garage.

If a fan who didn't see the 90s NASCAR pulls up a race from back then, they'd probably point a lot of this stuff out quickly because to them there's no nostalgia getting in the way. I just think a lot of stuff like that looks better in the rear view mirror, but I believe the similarities are there between a 90s broadcast and something of today.

If the booth would stop trying the know every last little thing beating us to death with how good they were in a race car, we might feel a little different on the coverage.
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Problem I have with NBC and the three is too much useless information. Almost all of it is repeated over and over and some how they think if they say the same information differently that works? It gets even worse when Burton philosophizes. Just announce the freakin race will ya.
 
StandOnIt said:
Problem I have with NBC and the three is too much useless information. Almost all of it is repeated over and over and some how they think if they say the same information differently that works? It gets even worse when Burton philosophizes. Just announce the freakin race will ya.
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Yeah I agree with that. Jeff burton seems to be really getting on a lot of people's lists. I keep hearing so many people say they can't tolerate him during races. Rick Allen is a bit much to listen to in my books.

NBC had Allen bestwick and Wally dallenbach... I would love to see them with Steve latarte. I think Steve is good for them. He actually says a lot of things I find really interesting. So he at least adds to the race experience.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Overall the broadcasts let the races tell whatever story was to be told and there was no consideration for drama or narratives being jammed down the viewers
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Skoalbandit33 said:
These guys complimented each other as opposed to being in competition with each other and didn't talk incessantly for no reason.
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That said it all. The booth guys were friends and they gave some insight as to what they were seeing. Most of the time we heard but didn't see them. The show was the race, today the booth is the show and they break away to show a little racing.
 
1. TV coverage was new, just a few years prior to them MRN was the only option.
2. Legendary drivers like Petty, Allison, Cale, Waltrip etc were still very good. The type that were introduced to us in a more indirect manner. A freind or uncle told you about the great race he saw them run years earlier. They were more of a mystery, while still knowing they were genuine legends in real time on day one.
3. A more dangerous racing world unfair or not, led most to see the drivers more as men, compared to contemporary times.
4. ESPN was great with the real grass roots, Thursday night thunder etc. I would never have known who Rich Vogler was without them.
5. Brian Frances overexposed dumbass was not an issue at the time. Nobody had to prentend to take his kind if idiocy seriously. It was just bad ass drivers on bias ply tires, a beautiful world.

Yes, ESPN was great racing stuff they stepped up, but the time frame was gold too, the fruit was hanging low.
 
At least we're singling out ESPN here, because people usually say the coverage in the 90s was so much better when, aside from ESPN, it really wasn't. TNN was decent, but CBS and especially TBS weren't very good.

Although, TBS did have this fine piece of music, which is right up there with NBC's current theme in terms of how epic it is.



Personally, and it's just my opinion, I think Fox's broadcasts in the early 2000s and VS/NBCSN's IndyCar broadcasts are the gold standard for television coverage.
 
What I liked about the broadcasts then is they didn't embellish about things. As mentioned before, they let the race tell the story itself and simply observe what was going on and relay that to the viewer. Nowadays, they make things out to be more than is reality as if the viewer is supposed to be foolish enough to believe it.
 
I even think the in car camera shots where better back then too for some reason. Maybe the cars just moved around more. The biggest thing I see different from the 80's is every driver had a story about where they came from back then. This made drivers appeal to average folks. Look at the drivers we have now, how interesting really are their stories? Ken squire always tapped into this. We don't see it now.

Kyle Larson does have an interesting story, but no one hardly has ever heard it. Plus these guys get the to top so young now there really isn't a story about them running and wrenching on a car themselves before the big leagues. It's stories and personality that make nascar. All of which are lacking these days
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
At least we're singling out ESPN here, because people usually say the coverage in the 90s was so much better when, aside from ESPN, it really wasn't. TNN was decent, but CBS and especially TBS weren't very good.

Although, TBS did have this fine piece of music, which is right up there with NBC's current theme in terms of how epic it is.



Personally, and it's just my opinion, I think Fox's broadcasts in the early 2000s and VS/NBCSN's IndyCar broadcasts are the gold standard for television coverage.
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CBS broadcasts were unintentionally hilarious due to Ken Squire and if I didn't know better I would say he took hallucinogens prior to and during the broadcasts. I can't recall a play by play guy in any racing series or sport being so out to lunch as that guy.
 
It is all fake hype now. Every little thing needs to be hyped up it is sickening. Mike Joy and DW iare just a sickening guys by nature with their sappy comments all the time (Joy was a great pit reported though and DW was not this bad when he started I dont think) and on NBC Steve Letarte sounds like he has had 12 cups of coffee. Just slow down you dont need to pretend its the last lap every lap. The dumb intro/outro videos they make the drivers film on fox that they air before commercials make me sick. All of the nascar commercials that fill up the commercial break also make me sick. Coke commercials ext...... Nascar is so cheesy it is un watchable. Can you even imagine the stories all week after suarez wins his first race? It will be so over the top. Nascar run by social justice warriors does not work. That is one of the reasons its almost dead.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Wally Dallenbach is so underrated as a broadcaster, it's not even funny.
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Wally is the only broadcaster that I am aware of that never drank the Nascar Kool Aid and I think he would be deemed too critical to be in the booth today. I don't want someone to be critical just for the sake of it but I don't like the blanket endorsement for everything Nascar that we see many times with current broadcast personnel.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
CBS broadcasts were unintentionally hilarious due to Ken Squire and if I didn't know better I would say he took hallucinogens prior to and during the broadcasts. I can't recall a play by play guy in any racing series or sport being so out to lunch as that guy.
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Yeah, Ken Squier definitely lost his touch in the 90s. I couldn't stand Buddy Baker either. I could never understand what the guy was saying. It was like nails on a chalkboard for me whenever he would talk.
 
joe h said:
The current trend of the guys in the booth needing more volume,
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This.

Audio focused on the constant talking rather than on the cars was a brain dead decision.

NASCAR needs binural audio. Listen with headphones for full effect.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Yeah, Ken Squier definitely lost his touch in the 90s. I couldn't stand Buddy Baker either. I could never understand what the guy was saying. It was like nails on a chalkboard for me whenever he would talk.
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I was never a fan of Buddy Baker either.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Yeah, Ken Squier definitely lost his touch in the 90s. I couldn't stand Buddy Baker either. I could never understand what the guy was saying. It was like nails on a chalkboard for me whenever he would talk.
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I remember Bobby Labonte's first win. TBS covered it with Ken, Ernie Irvan and some one else, maybe Baker. It was like Ken forgot to call Bobby to the line. Ernie kinda took over because Ken wasn't saying anything.
 
Bowtie3 said:
I remember Bobby Labonte's first win. TBS covered it with Ken, Ernie Irvan and some one else, maybe Baker. It was like Ken forgot to call Bobby to the line. Ernie kinda took over because Ken wasn't saying anything.
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This was a big problem with Weber on NBC too. There would be a battle for the lead and Weber's either talking about something else or not talking at all, and Dallenbach would start doing the play-by-play during the battle for the lead.

Weber's infamous Richmond call is a good example of this. He's talking about Tony Stewart. Then Harvick is battling Kyle Busch for the lead and Dallenbach calls the whole thing. All Weber said was "Lap and a half to go", "Wow" and "Kevin Harvick out of four, Harvick sweeps at Bristol -- at Richmond".
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
At least we're singling out ESPN here, because people usually say the coverage in the 90s was so much better when, aside from ESPN, it really wasn't. TNN was decent, but CBS and especially TBS weren't very good.

Although, TBS did have this fine piece of music, which is right up there with NBC's current theme in terms of how epic it is.



Personally, and it's just my opinion, I think Fox's broadcasts in the early 2000s and VS/NBCSN's IndyCar broadcasts are the gold standard for television coverage.
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The main thing CBS and TBS had going for it in the early 90s was Neil Bonnett. Although he was only a color man for three years, he was as good as any. He and Mike Joy were a good combo.
 
Previous posters have it covered. I think it all comes down to focusing on/creating excitement(which is there in the first place if you'd shut up and watch), fancy graphics, and whoring for advertisers over presenting the race.

It was probably a lot easier to call a race in the 90's.
 
DUN24 said:
Previous posters have it covered. I think it all comes down to focusing on/creating excitement(which is there in the first place if you'd shut up and watch), fancy graphics, and whoring for advertisers over presenting the race.

It was probably a lot easier to call a race in the 90's.
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ESPN had "fancy graphics" for the time era though. They usually had that leaderboard that ran down the side of the screen for the entire race, while the other networks only displayed a running order every 15 minutes or something. And ESPN always had a lap counter on the screen dating back to when I started watching.

I don't recall CBS or TNN having any sort of permanent leaderboard until 1998, and TBS had one too but it was terrible and only listed one thing at a time. And CBS/TNN only showed a lap count every 10 laps or so up until 1998.

I guess it's because it's what I grew up with, but I couldn't watch a NASCAR race without a leaderboard of some kind.

But yeah, the races are one big commercial now. NBC didn't seem to be as bad as Fox in this department.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I don't recall CBS or TNN having any sort of permanent leaderboard until 1998, and TBS had one too but it was terrible and only listed one thing at a time. And CBS/TNN only showed a lap count every 10 laps or so up until 1998.

I guess it's because it's what I grew up with, but I couldn't watch a NASCAR race without a leaderboard of some kind.
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The first permanent scoring display I can remember in any sport is when Fox picked up the NFL in 1994. They were the first to have the score constantly displayed up in the corner, and all sports and networks soon followed suit, although NBC had the AFC package through the end of the 1997 season and never did use it in that timespan.

It's hard to imagine watching sports now though without this simultaneous information, but there was a time in all sports when you had to wait every few minutes for the network to post the score, running order, etc.
 
ToyYoda said:
The first permanent scoring display I can remember in any sport is when Fox picked up the NFL in 1994. They were the first to have the score constantly displayed up in the corner, and all sports and networks soon followed suit, although NBC had the AFC package through the end of the 1997 season and never did use it in that timespan.

It's hard to imagine watching sports now though without this simultaneous information, but there was a time in all sports when you had to wait every few minutes for the network to post the score, running order, etc.
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or the first down line.

Remember when ESPN never had that bottom line scroll? It was only at :28 and :58 after the hour?
 
ToyYoda said:
The first permanent scoring display I can remember in any sport is when Fox picked up the NFL in 1994. They were the first to have the score constantly displayed up in the corner, and all sports and networks soon followed suit, although NBC had the AFC package through the end of the 1997 season and never did use it in that timespan.
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Yeah, I grew up with the NFL on NBC. They had all the Jacksonville and Miami games.
 
hidesert cowboy said:
What, buddy was hilarious. Satellite radio came with a new truck I bought years ago. His show was the only reason I renewed my subscription after the free trial ended
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I also liked Buddy........ His stories were great!!!!! My only gripe with him was......... he was stuck on Sr. ....... I always said if Sr. and Teresa ever got a divorce, Buddy would have proposed to Sr. :rolleyes:
 
My gosh I forgot how bad Homestead was back then
Talk about boring
 
Good thread....for me it just seemed ESPN cared more than what we get now. Some of my reasoning is probably with a little nostalgia attached but when Benny or Ned made a point during a race it felt like I learned something. I miss Dr. Punch breaking down an aero change that Evernham made for Jeff and then actually interviewing Ray about it. I also felt like Dr Punch never asked a stupid question like if it was late it th season and a title contender had a wreck it wasn't a question of "well how do you think this impacts your title chances?" Well duh... I loved ESPN coverage Bob Jenkins, Ned Jarrett, Benny Parsons and Jerry Punch on pit road was it. I also touched on in another thread I loved those summer/late fall races on TNN, some good stuff there.
 
kymartin6 said:
I also liked Buddy........ His stories were great!!!!! My only gripe with him was......... he was stuck on Sr. ....... I always said if Sr. and Teresa ever got a divorce, Buddy would have proposed to Sr. :rolleyes:
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Wasn't nearly as bad as Ken Squier's love for Dale Sr. though. Every race Squier called was Earnhardt and 42 other guys.
 
ToyYoda said:
Wasn't nearly as bad as Ken Squier's love for Dale Sr. though. Every race Squier called was Earnhardt and 42 other guys.
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It was obnoxious.

"Dale Earnhardt, the man in black, he's back and the swagger is in his eyes"

Something Ken Squier said one time during the starting lineup when Dale Jarrett's name popped up. :lol2:
 
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