What Makes a Race a Good Race?

dpkimmel2001

dpkimmel2001

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Side by side racing?

A good finish?

Passing for the lead?

Two wide racing every lap?

I always see people complaining about this car and how the racing sucks! What do you have to have for it to be a good race?
 
Unpredictability. There's never going to be a race that has two and three, side by side racing all day (except at Dega and Daytone, but people complain about those),

If there are enough changes throughout the race, maybe even between just a small handful of guys, and not knowing how it's going to end....that's a good race. The exception being fuel mileage races. The do often fit the template I just described, and they are part of it, but I can't stand them, and they let the air out of an otherwise good race.

That, and a good finish, with a last lap pass, can make up for an other so-so race. I mean it's the finish that's what it's all about anyway,
 
VaDirt said:
That, and a good finish, with a last lap pass, can make up for an other so-so race. I mean it's the finish that's what it's all about anyway,
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The finish more often than not seems to dictate most fans thoughts on the race IMO.
 
At one time I thought I knew what a good race was, today I'm not so sure. Used to see a car in VL that looked like it was ready for the shredder, now a golf ball size dent makes it a 20th place car. If they're lucky.
The cars have evolved into F-1 like. Instead of paint they are now wrapped. Wrapping weighs less but also eliminates the terrible speed killing edge of ALL those decals!
Common template, com'on. A Chevy should look like a Chevy, a Ford a Ford etc.
Ingenuity is now called cheating.
I admit sometimes I do wonder why I remain a fan, I really do.
FWIW I no longer plan my weekend around races, I tape/dvr and sometimes never watch it afterwards.
 
Lots of things make up great racing, and we see it today in most cases.

It would be easier for me to tell you want I don't want to see, but you boxed me in. This is the racing and show I would like to see more often.

Racing with light contact, bumping and shoving without concern for the aero package. Don't try to feed me the nonsense about aero always being part of the game. We all know it has become a HUGE part of racing at most tracks.

End the gentlemans agreement where veterans set the rules for racing. That group of resume stackers has done more to kill the action than anything else. NASCAR needs to trump them by defining a rational 'have at it' policy, and sticking to it. Any over the top retaliation that undermines have at it gets shut down.

Speed rules over position. If you're faster but the guy in front has the faster line, move him.

End the leader advantage and extreme aero push that stalls cars out race after race. Goodbye splitter.

End the start line and leader first to the line nonsense. Leader gets lane choice, that's all. Demand that cars line up side by side, or they get black flagged every time. When they get close to the line, wave the green flag and let them race. We'll have better action and less pile ups.

Attitude on pit road. If they are filming and altercation, just kill the audio and we'll read their lips. No fines for cursing and screaming, but come down on physical violance.
 
FB, I feel certain that you were a fan before the COT. If you were then you've got to know that aero was a huge factor then too. That's how the old car became as twisted as it was. Then, just like now, cars were unable to get by that car that was in the 'clean air'. I know I'm not going to be able to change your mind on that but that is the way it was and it remains that way today. And you know what, when they change to next years models it will remain an issue. It will be so much of an issue with the differing body types that it will cause concessions to be made in some for or another like it did in years gone by. The lobbying will begin, probably with Roush, sometime early next year.

I have to commute now, ttyl.
 
"FB, I feel certain that you were a fan before the COT. If you were then you've got to know that aero was a huge factor then too"

Yeah, but I remember when CoT arrived and guys who just jumped out of the old car complaining long and loud about WORSE aero push than what they had been driving. The term plagued many a race, which was surprising because CoT was supposed to lessen the problem. Maybe something more like the 90's car was less dependant on down force, which is what I'll start saying instead of aero package. Do you know the timeline for the previous car design?

When a guy like Bobby Allison says rip off the splitter to make the racing better, I find it hard to argue. NASCAR tried to remedy aero push by reducing downforce dependance by 20% for the CoT. When drivers said it was worse, they then started letting teams some latitude with the suspension, but it's still bad. How can we ignore the chant of 'track position' we hear over and over each and every week? It's not JUST the tires.

NASCAR is in a quandry, because NW cars are actually FASTER in the turns than the CoT. The other way CoT changed racing is the bumpers. I'm not sure if they raised the front and lowered the back to accomodate aero, but it has changed the bump and run. The car used to lift and move up the track. Now the front car just steals the momentum and keeps going.
 
For me it's really pretty simple. A good race is simply any race after which I leave with the feeling that I saw drivers driving to win the race, or at least to finish as high as they possibly could in the finishing order. That entertians me. Strategy, uncertainy, big picture racing and above all "My driver" (I don't have one) doesn't.
 
Competition, No one likes it when a driver is out front five seconds ahead of everyone else. Drivers who aren't afraid to use the bumper when they have to. I'm not talking about just knocking someone out of the way just a little bump here and there if someone is faster.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Side by side racing?

A good finish?

Passing for the lead?

Two wide racing every lap?

I always see people complaining about this car and how the racing sucks! What do you have to have for it to be a good race?
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Emotions.
 
Competition. Aggression. When drivers race hard, it's a good race. When they just ride around and collect points, or ride around in second place to push their teammate to victory, it robs the fans of a good show.

I've actually begun to cringe at the words "progressive banking" and "multiple grooves" because of Bristol and Las Vegas.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
.....When they just ride around and collect points,
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Never goona happen . No owner or sponsor would keep a driver on who doesn't give 100%. The bigger problem is drivers who OVERDRIVE their cars and wreck them . They are trying too hard. I know that I am taking my life in my hands going up against Jesus , but that statement is total crap.
 
For me, a good race is any race I watch on TV. Now.... A great race is any race I watch in person.
 
ted@economy said:
Never goona happen . No owner or sponsor would keep a driver on who doesn't give 100%. The bigger problem is drivers who OVERDRIVE their cars and wreck them . They are trying too hard. I know that I am taking my life in my hands going up against Jesus , but that statement is total crap.
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Then explain how Greg Biffle still has a ride.
 
FlFlash said:
A wore out slick track with lots of "Character" tires that give up and drivers that don't.

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That was a great finish, I never liked Craven but both of his cup wins were exciting last lap duels. Classic Darlington finish, love that old track.

I like races that end in racing, not results from strategy using a calculator instead of a bumper or fender.
 
So what makes a barnburner? Obviously, everyone here is going to differ on that so there are no right or wrong answers.
I like what most of you like, too - lot's of side by side racing and lead changes, paint swapping, and late lap passes. Throw in a tussle or two between drivers, too.
But usually a good indicator of a race for me is when someone who isn't a NASCAR fan calls me after a race and says "Did you see that race?'

How much time your local sports newscast devotes talking about that day's race is also a good sign it was an exciting race. Some Sundays NASCAR isn't even on the local sportscast's radar here in Phoenix. And for a few races this year, who could blame them. They can't all be barnburners.
 
A good topic, I plan on writing more details later.


It is at a track that allows for side by racing but technical enough to require some stress.
I like Darlington, Martinsville, and tracks like Rockingham.

Very few cautions, let them race, and do green flag stops. IMO that is more stress or a better test, some will make some mistakes. (Really I want to puke every time some dingbat begs for a debris caution).

I don't need 100 passes for the lead, just so long as two cars battle intensely for the lead. I could accept 10 or less lead changes at a place like Martinsville.

The second place can car can just stay on the bumper, and force a mistake, that's good racing. Over the last 20 laps I want to see some side by side, some slipping and touching, but no bump and runs.

The final set up should not be arranged by caution either.


No winners burn out, respect that car.

(more later).
 
Greg said:
It is at a track that allows for side by racing but technical enough to require some stress.
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Very few cautions, let them race, and do green flag stops.
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... just so long as two (or more) cars battle intensely for the lead.
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... I want to see some side by side, some slipping and touching, but no bump and runs.
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The final set up should not be arranged by caution either.
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(but sometimes poop happens)
No winners burn out, respect that car.
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And miss out on images like THIS???
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HA. No. Seriously dude. Think about it. When's the last time you saw a guy blow a tire because he took it to far? There is not more "gamble on the tires". And if it don't work, we the wall.

Didn't that stuff used to happen?
 
MOEJOE said:
Didn't that stuff used to happen?
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Yeah, it did. Many times with UGLY results, too! I know what you are saying and I agree with it.
Tires need to be safe - but should wear out and lose grip as the laps progress.

How effen hard is the job of a GoodYear engineer?
 
robbybee said:
Yeah, it did. Many times with UGLY results, too! I know what you are saying and I agree with it.
Tires need to be safe - but should wear out and lose grip as the laps progress.

How effen hard is the job of a GoodYear engineer?
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It's the crap they took from Tony when HAAS team engineers couldn't get it right.
 
They also got burned by INDY.

Tire engineers are like referees. They never have a home game and are most valuable when they are invisible.
 
Greg said:
A good topic, I plan on writing more details later.


It is at a track that allows for side by racing but technical enough to require some stress.
I like Darlington, Martinsville, and tracks like Rockingham.

Very few cautions, let them race, and do green flag stops. IMO that is more stress or a better test, some will make some mistakes. (Really I want to puke every time some dingbat begs for a debris caution).

I don't need 100 passes for the lead, just so long as two cars battle intensely for the lead. I could accept 10 or less lead changes at a place like Martinsville.

The second place can car can just stay on the bumper, and force a mistake, that's good racing. Over the last 20 laps I want to see some side by side, some slipping and touching, but no bump and runs.

The final set up should not be arranged by caution either.


No winners burn out, respect that car.

(more later).
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Nice post Greg, looking forward to seeing more of your thoughts.
 
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