What to do with Dega

And so what if it costs a few millions to create a new engine for Dega and Daytona? Isn't that better than the racing we have now? Isn't that better than watching a car almost fly into the stands? Isn't that better than seeing Ryan Newman on his rooof for 15 minutes and wondering if he was concious or not? I think so. I think Nascar should fork over half the money that it would cost to produce a better motor. And before all you go and say they will never do that, don't be so sure. I think the sentiment after this race is much more negative than even after the spring race. Nobody wants to see 38 cars parading around Dega for 3/4 of the race only to have the race decided on a GWC with the outcome a huge wreck right before the start finish line. I still firmly believe a motor producing about 450hp could make the racing a hell of a lot better if it was not a restricted motor. I beleive it would slow the cars down around 180-185, but let them have much better throttle response. Also let the crews play with the shock and spring packages more, plus let them be able to change the degeree of the wing angle. Let them have a range they can stay within that isn't too drastic, but at the same time gives them some creativety. NASCAR has taken this race and made a mockerry of it, they have taken the race pretty much completely out of the crew chiefs' and drivers' hands.
 
Then it would be a 120 mph freight train snoozefest.

Sounds like a voice of reason. I agree completely.

The discussion of a small engine or crate engines always gets lost on me when talking about Daytona or Talladega. Why is limiting the speed any different if their forced to use a smaller engine than using the plate at these tracks. Say NASCAR forces teams to use a motor that can only produce speeds of 170mph. Don't you think that they'll all hold their foot to the floor and do 170mph? How is there any throttle response? If the cars are to be kept from getting airborne, find the magic mph and issue a smaller plate or figure out how to change the car.
 
Make the rear bumper cover equally as high off the ground as the front and they will quit flipping over when turned backwards.
 
Take the damn plates off go to a smaller motor that produces about 400hp non restricted, let them race , let them bump in the corners too , and fix the fact that that damn wing makes them like a glider when they get going backwards!

I agree, but how about do one better put a real stock 400hp fuel injected engine in them, and take the wing off. With the 400hp stock engine NASCAR could actually advertise they are running stock cars. NASCAR has forgotten what stock car racing was all about in the 1st place, improving the technology that's under the hood of real stock cars. Also shorten the race to 350 miles. With 400hp engines 350 miles should full fill the networks air time too.
 
Remember when they had "427 CI' and "425 HP" on the hood? Why did they change to the small block? Because the energy crisis hits in 1974,the cars go to 358 ci in 1975. Gave the impression Na$car cared about saving fuel and it slowed the cars down. Racing didn't suffer now did it? Some great racing in the late 70's and 80's.

You can buy a 350 ci 400 hp crate from GM for around 6 grand from what I'm told. Thats less than what they spend to rebuild the motors today!! Take off that stupid wing and dopey splitter, put on a decent set of headers and intake on and go freakin' racing.

How many times do we hear "no forward bite"? Is that because the track and tires can't take the hp the motors are putting out?

Maybe Na$car should get their engineers on this.....:sarcasm:
 
The rear wing does what it is supposed to do when the cars are going forward, and that is to provide down force. The wing is fixed and when the car turns around backwards it provides lift. Just enough to lift the back of the car and flip it over.

The rear wing is in a fixed position and could easily made to pivot like the roof flaps. Once the car turns around the rear wing would lift and actually put down force on the car when running backwards.

It might not solve the problem at 190 MPH but it couldn't hurt.

I like this idea and certainly sounds like one of the cheapest alternatives that I've heard so far. Of course, I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night like most everyone else so I don't know if it would work or not. Sure sounds like a good idea to test your theory.
 
On another note, the roof flaps when they deploy actually add lift to the back of the car. Think about the angle and where the air force is dissipated.

Maybe NASCAR wants the back of the car to lift. :D
 
On another note, the roof flaps when they deploy actually add lift to the back of the car. Think about the angle and where the air force is dissipated.

Maybe NASCAR wants the back of the car to lift. :D

not neccesarily. They create a disrupted air flow, which induced high pressure.

slow air = high pressure
fast air = low pressure (or even vacuum)
 
not neccesarily. They create a disrupted air flow, which induced high pressure.

slow air = high pressure
fast air = low pressure (or even vacuum)

I agree, however, the flaps are on top of the car and we all know they slow the car. The pressure on the flaps when deployed is pushing towards the front of the car which takes weight off the back of the car.
 
Sounds like a voice of reason. I agree completely.

The discussion of a small engine or crate engines always gets lost on me when talking about Daytona or Talladega. Why is limiting the speed any different if their forced to use a smaller engine than using the plate at these tracks. Say NASCAR forces teams to use a motor that can only produce speeds of 170mph. Don't you think that they'll all hold their foot to the floor and do 170mph? How is there any throttle response? If the cars are to be kept from getting airborne, find the magic mph and issue a smaller plate or figure out how to change the car.

There is throttle response because the carbs are not restricted, thus it is much quicker for a car to accelerate.
 
I have read a lot of good ideas in here, and I agree that the track is not the problem. Restricting the engine is the problem. Many of you sound like you know what you are talking about when it comes to the mechanical aspects of a race car. While we all love to debate and post our opinions about how to fix the problem, it's not going to make a damn unless the people who run the show hear the ideas and dislikes of the racing and safety concerns of the Restrictor plate race tracks. If we are really concerned about our drivers NASCAR needs to here about it. I suggest we all flood NASCAR with emails to let them know how the fans feel. After all, this sport is supposedly fan friendly, and it is all about the fans.
 
Nothing is wrong with the track, & slowing the cars down even more is definitely not the answer. They need to speed the cars back up, the fans come to see cars hauling a$$ not idling around in line like it's a parade as was seen the last few Dega races & it has hurt Dega ticket sales as well. They already raised the catch fence, the cars still get airborne even as they continue the close the R-plate. They need to open the plate back up to where it was back in 1990 becasue at least back then cars could get away from eachother. You would have two, three & four car breakaways with cars scattered around the entire track instead of one huge pack with drivers locked in unable to escape. This makes for lousy racing & tears up good cars when there is a wreck. Johnson & Knaus, being the thinking folks that they are, have it figured out the best, hang back towards the back & wait for the race to come to you. Thats what he always doe's and it pretty much always pays off. Now if NASCAR opened up the plate, Johnson, Jr, JGordon, & Martin could all run up front without having to worry about being taken out in someone else's mess. It's a shame that the fastest track on the circuit isn't even the fastest track...
 
I have read a lot of good ideas in here, and I agree that the track is not the problem. Restricting the engine is the problem. Many of you sound like you know what you are talking about when it comes to the mechanical aspects of a race car. While we all love to debate and post our opinions about how to fix the problem, it's not going to make a damn unless the people who run the show hear the ideas and dislikes of the racing and safety concerns of the Restrictor plate race tracks. If we are really concerned about our drivers NASCAR needs to here about it. I suggest we all flood NASCAR with emails to let them know how the fans feel. After all, this sport is supposedly fan friendly, and it is all about the fans.

While i agree with this the only way something will change is if the drivers unite and protest the racing at these 2 tracks that have plates. Do you think for one minute if Sr. were around today that something wouldn't be done? He would of cursed out nascar big time on national television even. The drivers need to get behind a voice on their side and make a issue of this and tell nascar they will not race again there until the problem is fixed. The fans sadly seem not to matter here until all the seats are empty. I saw where Dega lowered the price on tickets for next year already, clear signal Naascar is concerned. I don't know if you guys noticed but looked to me that Dega was bout half filled on sunday, maybe 80000-90000 fans, i saw a ton of empty seats.
 
There is throttle response because the carbs are not restricted, thus it is much quicker for a car to accelerate.

I guess that's good coming out of the pits or on a restart but how does it help the racing? Everyone will have their foot to the floor just as they do today only they'll be traveling slower. I can't see where a smaller engine does anything more than slow the cars down. When these cars go to a non-restrictor plate track, the car limits are the separator. Who can drive the deepest into the corners. That limitation doesn't exist at Talladega. As long as the car is driving below it's limitation, the racing will continue to be the same as it is today.

I don't know any more than the next guy/gal on this board but IMO if you want to get these cars to be able to race at this track, make the car harder to drive here. Dirty it up somehow. If they have to lift in the corner, you'll see separation and racing.

One thing that I notice is that while most everyone seems to blame the bump drafting changes for bad racing there, what about the drivers? When I watched that race, I knew about the rule changes going in as did the drivers. I saw the cars going two, three. & four wide at the beginning, middle and end of the race. They didn't have any problem running that way then, so why the single file conga line? Simple, drivers choice. They choose not to race but why? Were they trying to send a message of some sort or did they figure out that it's not necessary to race so hard until the end. What is there to possibly gain by running hard at the beginning of most races? Nothing. Is the risk worth the reward? I don't think so. Jimmie did nothing new by running where he did for most of the race. We've seen that for years now. It almost didn't work for him, but then again this is Jimmie, it always works out for him. They knew that they could wait until the latter part of the race to make a move because they could draft to the front.

Cars flipping @ Talladega, nothing new. If there were a simple answer for this, it wouldn't even be an issue. Nobody wants to see someone hurt inside our outside of the car. Not even NASCAR. They'll work on that issue like other issues in the past. It may never be solved though.

Lastly, the tracks not going to change. The banking will remain, no chicane on the back stretch, etc.... You have to admit that it is somewhat funny that so many people are trying to take the banking away from Talladega & yet they want to add it to Fontana. Maybe they can haul all of that dirt they dig up and haul it on over to California. :D
 
The drivers need to get behind a voice on their side and make a issue of this and tell nascar they will not race again there until the problem is fixed. .

Wasn't Jeff Gordon suppose to be the voice of the drivers....wimp.....:p
 
I seem to recall some speculation over who would be the voice of the drivers after Sr's death. IIRC it boiled down to Rusty or DJ, who together don't have half the cajones Sr did on his worst day. They proved it by keeping mum.
 
I'm sure that there are contractural obligations with regard to the sponsors that prevent the drivers from boycotting a race or racetrack.
 
Bulldoze the track.

Today's generation of cars simply don't work at this track and never will as the track is now configured.
 
As I've said before, the problem isn't the track. It's the cars, and more specifically the restrictor plates. NASCAR mandated the use of the plates to keep the fans and drivers safe.

Here's what I'd recommend: remove the plates. Let the cars run as fast as the track will allow. These cars will probably hit 230MPH in the draft. Then, don't sell tickets for the first 30 rows of the grandstands. Those are the "cheap" seats anyway.

This will remove the pack racing, and bring back classic Super Speedway racing. You know: where the fastest car wins. It will also keep fans safe in the event of a crash, and also keep drivers safe because you wont have 43 cars running nose-to-bumper.

I think that will make everyone happy.
 
While I like your idea it'll never work. That's just too fast for a 3400 pound "stock" car. Plus you think there's tire problems now?

Racing didn't suffer when they went from the big block to the small block and it won't suffer using a 400 hp crate motor either. With headers and intake maybe 450-475 hp.

I'd rather see cars that can move around, pass and race at 145 mph then follow the leader at 190.
 
Bring the rear bumper cover down closer to the ground.That will allow less air under the car when turned around backwards.Making it harder to flip over.They already don't look like the cars off the showroom floor.
 
As I've said before, the problem isn't the track. It's the cars, and more specifically the restrictor plates. NASCAR mandated the use of the plates to keep the fans and drivers safe.

Here's what I'd recommend: remove the plates. Let the cars run as fast as the track will allow. These cars will probably hit 230MPH in the draft. Then, don't sell tickets for the first 30 rows of the grandstands. Those are the "cheap" seats anyway.

This will remove the pack racing, and bring back classic Super Speedway racing. You know: where the fastest car wins. It will also keep fans safe in the event of a crash, and also keep drivers safe because you wont have 43 cars running nose-to-bumper.

I think that will make everyone happy.

I agree with with your idea more than any of them. The COT seems to be a really safe car so far, with wrecks like Mcdowells at Texas and Edwards and Newman at 'Dega. Move the fans, open the cars up and let them go.
 
idk...we all enjoyed the race in the Spring...or atleast I did. So I don't think we should do anything after just 1 bad race.
 
Newman, NASCAR meet in aftermath of 'Dega crash
Meeting focused on improvements, testing, extrication
By David Caraviello, NASCAR.COM
November 6, 2009
06:26 PM EST

FORT WORTH, Texas -- The big wreck is over, the crumpled race cars have been loaded up and hauled off and the massive track in north Alabama has gone back into hibernation for another half a year. While the Sprint Cup tour has moved on from Talladega Superspeedway, the aftereffects of last weekend's accident involving Ryan Newman are still being felt.

Newman, who had to be cut out of his car after it flipped over and landed on its roof late in last Sunday's event, met with NASCAR vice president for competition Robin Pemberton and Sprint Cup director John Darby on Wednesday morning at the sport's Research and Development Center in Concord, N.C. The Stewart-Haas driver had two items on his agenda -- his prolonged extrication from the race car, which took roughly 15 minutes, and the kind of airborne accident that put him in that position in the first place.
"From an aerodynamic standpoint, ultimately, our biggest thing is to keep the race cars on the ground," Newman said Friday at Texas Motor Speedway, host of this weekend's NASCAR events. "Crashes have always been a part of racing. There are fans that like that. Sometimes that adds to extra excitement, don't get me wrong. When we can bounce off each other, get the car fixed, go back out and try to win a race, I understand that part of it. Keeping the race cars on the ground is how we keep the drivers, and especially the fans, safe."
NASCAR officials wouldn't discuss details of the meeting, other than to say it was positive.
"It was a good meeting," Darby said. "We explained a lot of things to Ryan, and Ryan took the time to walk us through step-by-step what he actually went through and felt as a driver, and that was good. At the end of the day, I think everything lined up pretty well."
It was the second consecutive Talladega race weekend involving a controversial airborne accident, and the second time this year a Sprint Cup driver has met with NASCAR officials over the issue. Carl Edwards met with unspecified NASCAR higher-ups in Daytona Beach, Fla., days after his car flew into the restraining fence at the end of Talladega's April race, a crash in which seven spectators were injured by debris.
Thankfully, Newman's car stayed out of the fence Sunday. But the driver still had concerns about why the vehicle lifted off to begin with, especially after seeing Mark Martin's car go into a roll during an accident a few laps later.
"I think there are for sure things that could be done and should be done based on what we saw, both [in] Mark's accident and my accident, [and] the spring accident with Carl," said Newman, who holds a degree in vehicle structural engineering from Purdue University. "Aerodynamically, there are things that need to be done to keep the cars on the ground. I said that six months ago. Six months is plenty of time to make those changes. The important thing is to make the right changes, to do the testing to the best of our capabilities with the tools that we have, meaning wind tunnels, modeling, things like that, to make the right difference."

That may already be occurring. In comments made to reporters the day after the Talladega race, Pemberton indicated that NASCAR was working on scheduling wind tunnel time to address the "high yaw" of the current Sprint Cup car on the 2.66-mile track. Friday at Texas, Darby said such studies are part of NASCAR's normal operating procedure.
"That's what we do," Darby said. "We do it every day. We don't just do it because the car got up in the air after Talladega. Our R&D Center is operational five days a week, 12 months a year. That's what they do everyday. So the answer to [potentially taking the cars to a wind tunnel] is yes. But as a result of [Talladega]? The answer is no. That's just what we do."
In the aftermath of Newman's crash, much speculation has centered around the Sprint Cup car's rear wing, and whether it provided the lift to send the car into the air. Pemberton said that wasn't the case, and that NASCAR has specifically tested the current vehicle in wind tunnels that allow the car to be spun around. And as Newman pointed out, there have been many airborne Talladega crashes involving cars with a rear spoiler instead of a wing.
"I don't know that it's the answer," he said. "As we've seen before, I believe it was Matt Kenseth's Nationwide crash, his car got airborne with a spoiler on the back of it. That's not the answer, that's not the fix. I've been part of crashes with spoilers on the back of them and a wing on the back of them, unfortunately. That's not the fix. Can it be a part of the fix? Yeah, potentially. Is it a better alternative in conjunction with other things you can do to the car? Maybe. Those are the things that NASCAR and the teams have to test collectively so that we can make it safer and better for the drivers and, like I said, more importantly, the fans."
It's unlikely to be a simple fix, given that cars have been going airborne in accidents at Talladega for years. Newman's crash "was no different than what we've seen for a good solid 15 years, if not more [at Talladega], and it's really hard to stop the cars from doing that when they get around like that," Martin said. Clearly, Newman believes that putting an end to airborne crashes at Talladega should be a priority.
"From an engineering standpoint, whatever we can do speed-wise and aerodynamically to keep the cars on the ground ... is what we need to focus on," said Newman, who requested the meeting with NASCAR in a telephone conversation with Darby on Sunday night. "There has been testing done. I learned some of that stuff on Wednesday morning talking to Mr. Darby and Mr. Pemberton, that they have tested. But I don't know that they have tested everything. I don't know that you can test everything. But obviously more testing needs to be done in order to make it safer for everybody."
Newman's other point of emphasis was his extrication from the car, which occurred after the vehicle was righted by a wrecker and the roof was cut off. It's not the first time Newman has spent a long time in his car waiting for relief -- following a 2003 crash at Watkins Glen, he sat in his vehicle for nearly two minutes before rescue crews even arrived, an incident that left the driver seething, and ignited debate over whether NASCAR needed dedicated safety crews like some open-wheel circuits have.
Newman said Friday that he was still sore from the impact of the crash, but as he sat upside down he never felt pushed down into his seat. He was, though, concerned about the way the roll cage was crushed, and believes there is some room for improvement as far as his extrication process was concerned.
"I want to make a point that I wasn't dissatisfied with the way I was taken out of the car," he said. "I just feel there were things that potentially could be done to make it easier for the next guy. That's my responsibility, because the next guy might be me again. You never know."
 
Talla dega is just, well, Talledega. If you remeber back to the old days , before Allison stuffed it in the catch fence, there was always the big one. Guess what, they put on a plate and we have, TaDa, the big one. Plate, no plate, it doesn't matter, when you have 43 cars doing the cha cha at 190 MPH your going to have pile- ups.
 
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