Whats wrong with Nascar?

hidesert cowboy said:
the younger generation like subarus and rice rockets, not rumbling v8's and muscle cars. look at the new camaros, challengers and mustangs. its not the young generation that is typically buying these cars
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There are plenty of the younger generation that would love a new generation muscle car. Like me for example. But, like me, most can not afford them. In 2010, I settled on a Charger R/T with the 5.7 HEMI. Why? The price was right and within what I could afford.
 
sloggie said:
Winning is not everything in NASCAR, because not finishing is so damaging. It's better to stay in 3rd than to take a chance going for the lead if crashing out kills your hopes of making the chase.
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So , in your opinion , if running third is all your car has , it's better to crash than finish third ?
 
I feel as though the problem lies in the drivers themselves. In the heyday of NASCAR it was good ole boys who the average fan could relate to and see them types at the local short tracks. Now, their mostly all multi millionaire pretty boys with the noses up real high riding around in jets and luxury RV's Add to that, the fact that they mostly act politically correct and don't want to ruffle feathers as to not upset any sponsors you end up with a bland product. Seems like most guys are just happy to be in the "club" and once they get there they all play nice to stay there. When's the last time we saw a true bump and run to win the race?

I think NASCAR is like other sports in that people like watching racing just like they enjoy watching football, but people PAY to go see the stars of the show. I think most people want to see an entertaining product but they want to see their favorites too. I'll go watch a high school football game and love it but I'll pay to see guys like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning play. I think it's the same with racing, I'm a fan of almost all types of motorsport, but I'll pay to see guys like JJ, and the Busch bros because there the best at what they do. Its just that a lot of these guys are vanilla and don't show the personality like they used to, it's all corporate now. The rivalries are mostly lame, heated words get exchanged and that's about it because everyone's buddy buddy and they don't want to lose their spot in the "club".

My suggestion is NASCAR needs to let these drivers be themselves more. No more fining them for saying things contrary to the company line, if they don't like something in NASCAR then let them say, it I want to hear it. The other thing I would do is make an even bigger point total for winning. Say maybe a 10 point gap from 2nd to 1st, so the guy in 2nd can really have a reward for getting the win. 3 point difference is not enough for a guy to consider dumping the leader. I feel like if the drivers had more personality that they could show, it would attract more fans to come see them. If drivers are gunning for the wins more and being more outspoken I think it will go a long way in promoting the main asset of NASCAR, the drivers.

Anyways, that's my take. End rant
 
3wideinturn1 said:
I feel as though the problem lies in the drivers themselves. In the heyday of NASCAR it was good ole boys who the average fan could relate to and see them types at the local short tracks. Now, their mostly all multi millionaire pretty boys with the noses up real high riding around in jets and luxury RV's Add to that, the fact that they mostly act politically correct and don't want to ruffle feathers as to not upset any sponsors you end up with a bland product. Seems like most guys are just happy to be in the "club" and once they get there they all play nice to stay there. When's the last time we saw a true bump and run to win the race?

I think NASCAR is like other sports in that people like watching racing just like they enjoy watching football, but people PAY to go see the stars of the show. I think most people want to see an entertaining product but they want to see their favorites too. I'll go watch a high school football game and love it but I'll pay to see guys like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning play. I think it's the same with racing, I'm a fan of almost all types of motorsport, but I'll pay to see guys like JJ, and the Busch bros because there the best at what they do. Its just that a lot of these guys are vanilla and don't show the personality like they used to, it's all corporate now. The rivalries are mostly lame, heated words get exchanged and that's about it because everyone's buddy buddy and they don't want to lose their spot in the "club".

My suggestion is NASCAR needs to let these drivers be themselves more. No more fining them for saying things contrary to the company line, if they don't like something in NASCAR then let them say, it I want to hear it. The other thing I would do is make an even bigger point total for winning. Say maybe a 10 point gap from 2nd to 1st, so the guy in 2nd can really have a reward for getting the win. 3 point difference is not enough for a guy to consider dumping the leader. I feel like if the drivers had more personality that they could show, it would attract more fans to come see them. If drivers are gunning for the wins more and being more outspoken I think it will go a long way in promoting the main asset of NASCAR, the drivers.

Anyways, that's my take. End rant
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MWR is a great example of what could happen if you don't please your sponsor or even Kyle and M&M's. It's the world we live in. This is a sponsor driven sport more than ever. There's no way that can be avoided these days. They aren't running for the gas station down the street. They're running for multi-million/billion dollar corporations. Pleasing a sponsor comes first. That's not going to change. We are all to thank for that. Just look at any of the recent MWR/NAPA/5Hour threads. Opinions are everything to these corporations. The drivers have to follow suit.
 
I don't think it's the drivers that have gotten pc, I think it's a majority of the fans. Every time a driver or a team gets just a little bit out of line the first thing a lot of fans want to do is complain to the sponsors and threaten to quit using their products. And with todays technology and facebook and twitter, the sonsors are hearing a lot more of the fans and seeing how easy it is for the fans to communicate with each other. So what use to be just a harmless little rant, can now be a game changer. And as DPK said, MWR and NAPA, and Kyle Busch and M&M's are good examples. Fans have always wanted more power and now that we have it, I hope we know how to use it without destroying the things that we love...like good hard in your face racing.
 
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hidesert cowboy said:
the younger generation like subarus and rice rockets, not rumbling v8's and muscle cars. look at the new camaros, challengers and mustangs. its not the young generation that is typically buying these cars
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Ummm no...I love Subys and Muscle cars I grew up in the 60s and 70s, all that has nothing to do with why attendance is down. Nascar is not marketing their product correctly to keep fans. Ticket packages are not appealing enough for a family to attend without going broke for the weekend, the racing has been crappy in the past too. But I think with the new car this will all change soon, and ticket prices will become more appealing. Nascar certainly isn't stupid or they wouldn't of built the empire they have contructed to this point. It is also very hard to compete with football, so expect to see even more empty seats.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Ummm no...I love Subys and Muscle cars I grew up in the 60s and 70s, all that has nothing to do with why attendance is down. Nascar is not marketing their product correctly to keep fans. Ticket packages are not appealing enough for a family to attend without going broke for the weekend, the racing has been crappy in the past too. But I think with the new car this will all change soon, and ticket prices will become more appealing. Nascar certainly isn't stupid or they wouldn't of built the empire they have contructed to this point. It is also very hard to compete with football, so expect to see even more empty seats.
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He was talking about the younger generation. No offence, but if you grew up in the 60s and 70s like I did, then I don't think we are part of the younger generation he is talking about.:)
 
3wideinturn1 said:
I feel as though the problem lies in the drivers themselves. In the heyday of NASCAR it was good ole boys who the average fan could relate to and see them types at the local short tracks. Now, their mostly all multi millionaire pretty boys with the noses up real high riding around in jets and luxury RV's Add to that, the fact that they mostly act politically correct and don't want to ruffle feathers as to not upset any sponsors you end up with a bland product. Seems like most guys are just happy to be in the "club" and once they get there they all play nice to stay there. When's the last time we saw a true bump and run to win the race?

I think NASCAR is like other sports in that people like watching racing just like they enjoy watching football, but people PAY to go see the stars of the show. I think most people want to see an entertaining product but they want to see their favorites too. I'll go watch a high school football game and love it but I'll pay to see guys like Tom Brady or Peyton Manning play. I think it's the same with racing, I'm a fan of almost all types of motorsport, but I'll pay to see guys like JJ, and the Busch bros because there the best at what they do. Its just that a lot of these guys are vanilla and don't show the personality like they used to, it's all corporate now. The rivalries are mostly lame, heated words get exchanged and that's about it because everyone's buddy buddy and they don't want to lose their spot in the "club".

My suggestion is NASCAR needs to let these drivers be themselves more. No more fining them for saying things contrary to the company line, if they don't like something in NASCAR then let them say, it I want to hear it. The other thing I would do is make an even bigger point total for winning. Say maybe a 10 point gap from 2nd to 1st, so the guy in 2nd can really have a reward for getting the win. 3 point difference is not enough for a guy to consider dumping the leader. I feel like if the drivers had more personality that they could show, it would attract more fans to come see them. If drivers are gunning for the wins more and being more outspoken I think it will go a long way in promoting the main asset of NASCAR, the drivers.

Anyways, that's my take. End rant
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The NASCRAP brass just don't realize how lame they looked when the word got out about the SECRET $50k fine they gave NEWMAN....
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I posted that thread a while back. It got buried real quick. It's much easier to complain than to compliment.
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That's what it boils down to. People complain but they still watch.

Personally I am quite happy with everything NASCAR is doing and the amount of coverage options we have. If they remove Talladega from the Chase I'll pretty much set.

Oh, and put in lights at MIS with a massive HD screen on the back stretch. :D
 
Matthew2470 said:
That's what it boils down to. People complain but they still watch.

Personally I am quite happy with everything NASCAR is doing and the amount of coverage options we have. If they remove Talladega from the Chase I'll pretty much set.

Oh, and put in lights at MIS with a massive HD screen on the back stretch. :D
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And here I thought they need to go to Talladega twice. ;)
 
I like what NASCAR is doing. Now they get it! They understand the days of yore are or should be in the past. They seem to grasp they need to operate the sport on a level playing field for everyone and they are doing that. I expect a few glitches and some grumbling but NASCAR is moving forward and it shows.
 
Sunday in the grandstands....

Well apart from no scantily clad trophy queens, no catfights between wives, and at least not having one good fist fight among two drivers it is not so bad.

In addition having folks involved that are to high and mighty to embrace their inner redneck sucks, I despise sitting around them. It is also a long long way to carry your cooler, and just to much walking. The seats are to hard, and there either to low to see or just to damn high to climb. And the elevator line is to long to use.
By the time I get to the seat, my butt and my feet are hurting terribly. Then I realize I got to pee, climb the steps again, and that dont including having to walk to the car after this ordeal is over.
It is to hot for racing anyway.

I must have been insane to come here, I cant wait until I get back to a better situation. Tommorow this misery will be over and I will get back to posting.

Monday on the Racing Forums. "Jeff Gordon is just to girlie, Kasey is to feminine to bump anyone, Tony is just fat, Kurt is a SOB, Kyle too, I hate Jimmies arrogance. Their all sissys a disgrace to my standards.... yada yada
 
Matthew2470 said:
dpkimmel2001 said:
I posted that thread a while back. It got buried real quick. It's much easier to complain than to compliment.
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That's what it boils down to. People complain but they still watch.

Personally I am quite happy with everything NASCAR is doing and the amount of coverage options we have. If they remove Talladega from the Chase I'll pretty much set.

Oh, and put in lights at MIS with a massive HD screen on the back stretch. :D
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I agree that we as fans complain a lot at times, some of us more than others, but I would argue that it is totally possible to criticize specific decisions that NASCAR makes (or criticize certain aspects of the sport) while still remaining a loyal fan of it.

I love NASCAR but I don't blindly ride the sanctioning body's jock, nor do I diss them at every opportunity like we see some people do. I've come close to taking a break from it once or twice, like after the Richmond race a couple of weeks ago, and a few years ago when I was skipping the restrictor plate races because I couldn't stand them. In the end, yes, I'm still watching, because while I may disagree with some of the things NASCAR does, and everything that happens may not go my way, I still like the sport in general.

Mind you, as I said, I do agree that there are people out there that incessantly complain about everything NASCAR does (and I'm not necessarily referring to anyone on this forum, BTW). With those people, it gets to the point where they don't even sound like fans - they come across as people that have come to hate it entirely. They are the ones that should seriously consider taking a break from it.
 
Go Panthers said:
Nascar is a shell of what it used to be.


and most importantly, they abandoned their core fan base years ago. I've said for a long time that nascar was a fad, when it was no longer the "cool" thing to do, Nascar would be in big big trouble because they ran off the core fan base.
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Yep, I live in Greensboro which used to be one of the greatest fan bases in North Carolina. The fans started leaving 6 or more years ago. Forget the baloney of the economy being the reason.
 
I miss the old days when Nascar fans were cherished and respected by sponsors because they were considered to be extremely loyal to the race teams and the companies that put their money behind the teams. Seems like today these fans have little or no respect for the raceteams or their sponsors . I think that may be Nascar's biggest problem.
 
Lack of a big rivalry is the biggest problem. When Jeff Gordon came along and started putting a whipping on Dale Earnhardt NASCAR exploded. It was the perfect rivalry on a multitude of levels and it was awesome. Since then there has been no sustained rivalry between 2 megastars. The only thing we have now is everyone hating someone who wins a lot.
 
ted@economy said:
I miss the old days when Nascar fans were cherished and respected by sponsors because they were considered to be extremely loyal to the race teams and the companies that put their money behind the teams. Seems like today these fans have little or no respect for the raceteams or their sponsors . I think that may be Nascar's biggest problem.
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You know, as a Nascar fan, I'm tired of being blamed when it's Brian ****** France running things into the ground!

Why you continue to hold him in such high regard and the fans in total contempt, I guess I'll never know. If it weren't for the fans, there'd be no Nascar and anyone who doesn't see that needs a serious reality check.
 
Nitro Dude said:
He was talking about the younger generation. No offence, but if you grew up in the 60s and 70s like I did, then I don't think we are part of the younger generation he is talking about.:)
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I know what he was talking about. I just don't think that is the problem. It is the pricing structure, the advertising, has very little to do with kids driving rice burners. Racing is racing, give these younger kids good racing and they will be interested, there are plenty of younger people on this board lets hear why they like Nascar? I bet it has nothing to do with Japanese cars being in or not being in Nascar. it has to do with the aspect of racing, competition, and thrill.
 
Whizzer said:
I like what NASCAR is doing. Now they get it! They understand the days of yore are or should be in the past. They seem to grasp they need to operate the sport on a level playing field for everyone and they are doing that. I expect a few glitches and some grumbling but NASCAR is moving forward and it shows.
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Yes I think they made a huge move forward with the Gen 6 car, now if they could just move forward on the Plate tracks then we would have something!
 
Multicar teams, restrictor plates, IROC cars, the France mafia runs the sport. That is off the top of my head.
 
Bobw said:
True. But you miss the experience of being at the track.
Then you need to consider the cost to get there and back, lodging, food, adult beverages.
Lodging is/was the killer. A 100 buck a night room goes for 500+ a night during Daytona speedweeks.
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If you look hard enough, you can find reasonable room rates at hotels not too far from the track. For this years July race, I was able to get a room for less than $200 that was only 20 min from the track and it was a nice hotel.
 
Bobw said:
True. But you miss the experience of being at the track.
Then you need to consider the cost to get there and back, lodging, food, adult beverages.
Lodging is/was the killer. A 100 buck a night room goes for 500+ a night during Daytona speedweeks.
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I've found that the price gouging on hotels isn't nearly as bad at the tracks near major cities. I've gotten race weekend hotel rates that were very reasonable at Michigan and Chicagoland. It's the BFE tracks like Bristol and Martinsville where the area hotels/motels tend to gouge more. I grew up in Roanoke, VA which is a good hour from Martinsville, and even that far away there was price gouging at the hotels on race weekends.
 
TampaChaz said:
If you look hard enough, you can find reasonable room rates at hotels not too far from the track. For this years July race, I was able to get a room for less than $200 that was only 20 min from the track and it was a nice hotel.
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Welcome to the forum TampaChaz , always great to hear from folks that actually go to the races .Hope you'l post some pics if you go in February.
 
Whoa.. its a thread now.

Mafia was just brought up in this discussion. :D
 
ToyYoda said:
I've found that the price gouging on hotels isn't nearly as bad at the tracks near major cities. I've gotten race weekend hotel rates that were very reasonable at Michigan and Chicagoland. It's the BFE tracks like Bristol and Martinsville where the area hotels/motels tend to gouge more. I grew up in Roanoke, VA which is a good hour from Martinsville, and even that far away there was price gouging at the hotels on race weekends.
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This is true. I stayed in Birminham the last time I was at Talladega and paid $200 + for four nights.

I have since taken to hooking up on Craigslist so now I stay for free and get added benefits... ;)

*** This was for you Greg.
 
Smoke14 said:
This is true. I stayed in Birminham the last time I was at Talladega and paid $200 + for four nights.

I have since taken to hooking up on Craigslist so now I stay for free and get added benefits... ;)

*** This was for you Greg.
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The two times the wife and I went to Talladega without an RV we stayed in a great hotel just off the interstate in Carrolton Ga. for a discounted price booked in advance and it was about the same distance as Birmingham, I cant remember the price or the name just that it was great.
 
I think those great motel/hotel deals that I'm reading about on here are a rarity. I only base this on the calls that I hear come in to NASCAR Radio from time to time. Perhaps it is just the vocal few making those calls? Most seem to voice their opinion that they are overpaying by a large margin. From the amounts that I hear I can certainly understand why we see fewer butts in the stands these days. I think that it simply comes down to money. That's the only thing that keeps me from going to more races. I have more than enough time built up in vacation but not enough money to go to all the races that I'd like to.

We are cutting back on attending next years races. I'm giving up some great seats at Bristol after having gone there for many years. We used to go to Dover & Richmond but have given up those seats as well. Right now the plans are for Eldora and Martinsville for the 2014 season. None of our cutbacks are based on the quality of the racing. We have a great time ever time that we go to a race. It's simply $'s.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I think those great motel/hotel deals that I'm reading about on here are a rarity. I only base this on the calls that I hear come in to NASCAR Radio from time to time. Perhaps it is just the vocal few making those calls? Most seem to voice their opinion that they are overpaying by a large margin. From the amounts that I hear I can certainly understand why we see fewer butts in the stands these days. I think that it simply comes down to money. That's the only thing that keeps me from going to more races. I have more than enough time built up in vacation but not enough money to go to all the races that I'd like to.

We are cutting back on attending next years races. I'm giving up some great seats at Bristol after having gone there for many years. We used to go to Dover & Richmond but have given up those seats as well. Right now the plans are for Eldora and Martinsville for the 2014 season. None of our cutbacks are based on the quality of the racing. We have a great time ever time that we go to a race. It's simply $'s.
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I have cut way back on NASCAR races because most of my race buds have either died or lost interest.

I am hitting more local short tracks now than I ever did before and the racing is outstanding.
 
After reading the complaints from people who attend races relating to price gouging on race weekends, I wonder how many actually travel and stay in hotels/motels regularly where the room cost comes directly from their pocket. Some of the complaints might be easily justified but a hotel/motel room can range from 45$ to 200.00$ a night in many areas. I travel a lot to different areas in the northeast and mid and south west and find rates are all over the place. If it is the only hotel/motel in an area, the price is higher. A recent visit to Danville, PA found a motel room at 149$ per night and there was nothing going on! A trip with a stop in Newton, NJ and a motel room at 139.00$ per night. So when put into perspective, 200.00$ per night at or near a race facility is not really gouging.
 
Whizzer said:
After reading the complaints from people who attend races relating to price gouging on race weekends, I wonder how many actually travel and stay in hotels/motels regularly where the room cost comes directly from their pocket. Some of the complaints might be easily justified but a hotel/motel room can range from 45$ to 200.00$ a night in many areas. I travel a lot to different areas in the northeast and mid and south west and find rates are all over the place. If it is the only hotel/motel in an area, the price is higher. A recent visit to Danville, PA found a motel room at 149$ per night and there was nothing going on! A trip with a stop in Newton, NJ and a motel room at 139.00$ per night. So when put into perspective, 200.00$ per night at or near a race facility is not really gouging.
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The Sleep Inn in Kingsport TN has rooms for $77 any day of the year except the Bristol race weekend. The last time I stayed there it was $219 per night plus tax and they had a four night minimum.

If that isn't price gouging, I don't know what to call it.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
Hotel prices are one thing that NASCAR can NOT control. I agree with the argument those prices are too high on race weekends, but that is not NASCAR's fault.
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Agreed, but it is one of the things that is wrong with NASCAR IMO. Come to think of it, the few things that are wrong with NASCAR isn't controlled by NASCAR.
 
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