Where would you build your new track?

Skoalbandit33 said:
My concern with the Northwest is inclement weather as when you factor in the distance from Charlotte and the potential for rain it could be problematic. I have spent many a rainy day in Portland.
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That's why I like the idea he had of building it in a dome. Unless the roof leaks it would be rain or shine event.:)
 
bigspud said:
in between seattle and vancouver near the i-5.
bristol type but wider with 3 working grooves.
dome not needed, not much rain in july and aug.
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There was enough rain in Aug of this year to postpone our finals until another date. If Andy wants to spend the extra money for a dome to make our Nascar racing experience more enjoyable, then as a fan I'm all for it.:)
 
Nitro Dude said:
That's why I like the idea he had of building it in a dome. Unless the roof leaks it would be rain or shine event.:)
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I was thinking the same thing as I watched the Bristol Night race get rained out. But Bristol is definitely the easiest to dome.
 
aunty dive said:
But ... but ... but rain tarz. :D

You're correct, of course. Scheduling would be key but this is a fantasy thread after all. Methinks the effects of climate changes are being felt already.
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Forgetting the rain it would be a great part of North America to run a race. Portland International is a nice track, IMO.
 
bigspud said:
in between seattle and vancouver near the i-5.
bristol type but wider with 3 working grooves.
dome not needed, not much rain in july and aug.
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I think that would be a good location.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Forgetting the rain it would be a great part of North America to run a race. Portland International is a nice track, IMO.
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I have never been to that track but I see the sign every year on the way to Seattle. What kind of a track is it?
 
Build a 5/8s mile like Wilksboro between Seattle and Vancouver.
 
Nitro Dude said:
I have never been to that track but I see the sign every year on the way to Seattle. What kind of a track is it?
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Here is the layout.

Portland_International_Raceway.jpeg
 
LouieLouie said:
Ok so let's make this a little realistic, nobody wants to hear North Wilkesboro or Rockingham resurrected. Those two tracks obviously aren't in locations that help grow the sport or provide a lot of revenue. So be sure to pick a city that is realistic.
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I actually disagree with that, the closing of both of those tracks upset a lot of people. I do believe that if they were never closed, they'd have a ton of people show up.

With that being said, wouldn't build any new tracks, I'd be bringing more races back to the Southeast is back to the sports roots.
 
Go Panthers said:
I actually disagree with that, the closing of both of those tracks upset a lot of people. I do believe that if they were never closed, they'd have a ton of people show up.

With that being said, wouldn't build any new tracks, I'd be bringing more races back to the Southeast is back to the sports roots.
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I don't doubt that people would show up, but the location is not as big a money maker as say a major city.

I respectfully disagree with moving the sport to the southeast. The sport is national at this point and international at the xfinity level already. Fix the cars, reconfigure the cookie cutters to something 1 mile or less and then watch the sport explode again.
 
LouieLouie said:
I respectfully disagree with moving the sport to the southeast. The sport is national at this point and international at the xfinity level already. Fix the cars, reconfigure the cookie cutters to something 1 mile or less and then watch the sport explode again.
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I agree with the part about fixing the cars, and Nascar has recently made major progress on that front. But don't hold your breath waiting for the sport to "explode again." It exploded before mainly due to a random shift of society - i.e. a fad - that suddenly made Nascar the coolest thing since, since, well since the previous fad. Suddenly and inexplicably, Nascar was "a scene" from coast to coast with explosive growth... and then it wasn't, as society moved on to graze in another pasture.

The biggest mistake of the Nascar industry was failing to recognize the fad for what it was... easy come, easy go. So the industry, blindly assuming the good times would roll on forever, invested billions in new infrastructure. And we're still dealing with the hangover from the overcapacity that was created.
 
Dover Motorsport Inc has sold Nashville Superspeedway several times before, and yet they still have it. I hope the deal is secured by hard cash earnest money, for the sake of the DMI shareholders. As always, it will be "sold" when the deal closes.

Why is there no Nascar racing in the Nashville area?
 
LouieLouie said:
I don't doubt that people would show up, but the location is not as big a money maker as say a major city.

I respectfully disagree with moving the sport to the southeast. The sport is national at this point and international at the xfinity level already. Fix the cars, reconfigure the cookie cutters to something 1 mile or less and then watch the sport explode again.
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Ehh i get where you're coming from, completely, but I don't think the market matters where its really at, as long as people show up and most importantly people tune in. Nascar can be successful with zero people in the stands as long as people tune in and watch the race on TV. Not to mention a Nascar event only takes place once maybe twice in that market, so i'm not sure really being in a big market is that big of a deal. Look at tracks in smaller cities like Martinsville, its a extremely small market for an event like that, but that event is one of the best in nascar. That's because of the history and the makeup of the track.

When nascar picked and moved from places like Wilkesboro and Rockingham, they left some of the soul of the sport behind.

What I can agree with though, is if they build different tracks around the country, they've got to make them unique. We have too many tracks that are similar, we need different things.

Part of why Wilksboro, Rockingham, and Darlington were so cool is because they were so different.
 
To build a "new track", I think you have to build a multi sport event. If you build a 3/4 mile oval type to today's standards, you could have a 1/2 mile dirt track on the inside and a road course on the outside. The suits should actually be hotel rooms with a glass wall facing the tracks and they could have their own hotel with a shopping mall on the ground floor. For Nascar type events the road course could be a a trailor park. Inside the dirt track they could have a smaller dome structure for other events like "Woodstock" LOL. No matter where you build it must have
good roads to get in and out.
If they build in Canada they could have sled racing as well.:p
 
Go Panthers said:
Ehh i get where you're coming from, completely, but I don't think the market matters where its really at, as long as people show up and most importantly people tune in. Nascar can be successful with zero people in the stands as long as people tune in and watch the race on TV. Not to mention a Nascar event only takes place once maybe twice in that market, so i'm not sure really being in a big market is that big of a deal. Look at tracks in smaller cities like Martinsville, its a extremely small market for an event like that, but that event is one of the best in nascar. That's because of the history and the makeup of the track.

When nascar picked and moved from places like Wilkesboro and Rockingham, they left some of the soul of the sport behind.

What I can agree with though, is if they build different tracks around the country, they've got to make them unique. We have too many tracks that are similar, we need different things.

Part of why Wilksboro, Rockingham, and Darlington were so cool is because they were so different.
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Agree. Wilksboro and the Rock had character and were unique track configurations. Too bad they couldn't move those designs to Kansas or Kentucky when they were building those facilities.
 
Team Penske said:
To build a "new track", I think you have to build a multi sport event. If you build a 3/4 mile oval type to today's standards, you could have a 1/2 mile dirt track on the inside and a road course on the outside. The suits should actually be hotel rooms with a glass wall facing the tracks and they could have their own hotel with a shopping mall on the ground floor. For Nascar type events the road course could be a a trailor park. Inside the dirt track they could have a smaller dome structure for other events like "Woodstock" LOL. No matter where you build it must have
good roads to get in and out.
If they build in Canada they could have sled racing as well.:p
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I like where you are going with this idea. The Arizona Cardinals football team has a stadium in which the football field is on a tray that slides in and out of the stadium. If something like that could be designed around a race track, you could potentially have a stadium inside a stadium. Very interesting concept and if you could do it for football why not other sports? I think the Indianapolis football stadium already holds monster truck events in their stadium. Pretty sure it would be big enough for a dirt event.
Also like the shopping mall idea. Most baseball stadiums are shopping malls now anyway. Team apparel, food stands, and various other mini shops.
 
LouieLouie said:
I like where you are going with this idea. The Arizona Cardinals football team has a stadium in which the football field is on a tray that slides in and out of the stadium. If something like that could be designed around a race track, you could potentially have a stadium inside a stadium. Very interesting concept and if you could do it for football why not other sports? I think the Indianapolis football stadium already holds monster truck events in their stadium. Pretty sure it would be big enough for a dirt event.
Also like the shopping mall idea. Most baseball stadiums are shopping malls now anyway. Team apparel, food stands, and various other mini shops.
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Check out what the dolphins are doing to their stadium this year, the've installed a canopy that covers like 90% of the seating. Something like this could be done.

I've often wonder why nascar could have tarps hidden behind the wall, and when it starts to rain, they just roll out over the track.

I understand that's a ton of track to cover, but this is a multi billion dollar sport.
 
Go Panthers said:
Check out what the dolphins are doing to their stadium this year, the've installed a canopy that covers like 90% of the seating. Something like this could be done.

I've often wonder why nascar could have tarps hidden behind the wall, and when it starts to rain, they just roll out over the track.

I understand that's a ton of track to cover, but this is a multi billion dollar sport.
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Looks like they are adding a recliner section to the front row in one of the end zones. If I were on the team and scored a TD in that end zone, I would totally jump into one of those recliners! haha
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If a new track was ever going to be constructed I think it would have to take it's cues from the new Daytona, Kansas, and Las Vegas. Daytona for the stadium and seating design, Kansas for the hotels and other attractions built in the area, and Vegas for the multiple diverse uses of the site.
 
Acs said:
If a new track was ever going to be constructed I think it would have to take it's cues from the new Daytona, Kansas, and Las Vegas. Daytona for the stadium and seating design, Kansas for the hotels and other attractions built in the area, and Vegas for the multiple diverse uses of the site.
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Agree with that, for the type of money it would now cost to build a new one, i would think these things would need to generate money year round.
 
Go Panthers said:
Ehh i get where you're coming from, completely, but I don't think the market matters where its really at, as long as people show up and most importantly people tune in. Nascar can be successful with zero people in the stands as long as people tune in and watch the race on TV. Not to mention a Nascar event only takes place once maybe twice in that market, so i'm not sure really being in a big market is that big of a deal. Look at tracks in smaller cities like Martinsville, its a extremely small market for an event like that, but that event is one of the best in nascar. That's because of the history and the makeup of the track.

When nascar picked and moved from places like Wilkesboro and Rockingham, they left some of the soul of the sport behind. ...
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NASCAR can be successful with nobody in the stands, but an individual track can't be.

Some of the Rock's problems were directly related to being located outside a major market: insufficient nearby hotel space, what hotels that were available were mostly ancient motels, no interstate access, and nothing to do for members of the family who weren't into racing.
 
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Charlie Spencer said:
NASCAR can be successful with nobody in the stands, but an individual track can't be.

Some of the Rock's problems were directly related to being located outside a major market: insufficient nearby hotel space, what hotels that were available were mostly ancient motels, no interstate access, and nothing to do for members of the family who weren't into racing.
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But what you just described is also Martinsville and Darlington....right?
 
Go Panthers said:
But what you just described is also Martinsville and Darlington....right?
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Darlington is less than 10 miles from I-20 and I-95, and from the reasonably sized city of Florence. The race weekend is also a great way to begin or end a week at the major tourist destination of Myrtle Beach, especially at Labor Day (one point in that date's favor). When run on Mother's Day, the weekend coincided with a major Harley rally at the beach; those guys were good for some butts in the seats.

Martinsville is almost 50% bigger than Rockingham (13,500 vs 9,000 or so). Better restaurants, better hotels. Martinsville has Greensboro as a jumping off point, about an hour to the south. It also isn't as close to the Richmond track as Rockingham was to Darlington and Charlotte, so M'ville doesn't have to compete for fans as much as R'ham did. M'ville also has weekends that are less likely to be as frickin' cold as Rockingham's traditional dates of second and next-to-last on the schedule. And M'ville has a great little natural history museum.

That's why I said 'Some' of Rockingham's problems were due to it's market. There were plenty of other factors.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Darlington is less than 10 miles from I-20 and I-95, and from the reasonably sized city of Florence. The race weekend is also a great way to begin or end a week at the major tourist destination of Myrtle Beach, especially at Labor Day (one point in that date's favor). When run on Mother's Day, the weekend coincided with a major Harley rally at the beach; those guys were good for some butts in the seats.

Martinsville is almost 50% bigger than Rockingham (13,500 vs 9,000 or so). Better restaurants, better hotels. Martinsville has Greensboro as a jumping off point, about an hour to the south. It also isn't as close to the Richmond track as Rockingham was to Darlington and Charlotte, so M'ville doesn't have to compete for fans as much as R'ham did. M'ville also has weekends that are less likely to be as frickin' cold as Rockingham's traditional dates of second and next-to-last on the schedule. And M'ville has a great little natural history museum.
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We're splitting hairs here. Rockingham also has a major 4 lane highway running right through it, (HWY 74) that's a major travel road to Myrtle Beach as well. I just made that trek to MB from Charlotte a few weeks back, and oddly enough i came back I20 and passed the Darlington Speedway exit. Depending on which way you go, both Rockingham and Darlington are both close to Charlotte and to Myrtle Beach and have major highways/interstates leading to them. All I'm trying to say is the Martinsville and Darlington markets have more in common with Rockingham than they do to tracks in Charlotte, Atlanta, TX, and other places.

BTW, Wilkesboro has a major 4 lane highway literally right beside it, i still get sick every time we take 421 to Boone.
 
Go Panthers said:
We're splitting hairs here. Rockingham also has a major 4 lane highway running right through it, (HWY 74) that's a major travel road to Myrtle Beach as well. I just made that trek to MB from Charlotte a few weeks back, and oddly enough i came back I20 and passed the Darlington Speedway exit. Depending on which way you go, both Rockingham and Darlington are both close to Charlotte and to Myrtle Beach and have major highways/interstates leading to them. All I'm trying to say is the Martinsville and Darlington markets have more in common with Rockingham than they do to tracks in Charlotte, Atlanta, TX, and other places.

BTW, Wilkesboro has a major 4 lane highway literally right beside it, i still get sick every time we take 421 to Boone.
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Turn back the clock. 74 wasn't a major highway back in 2003; it's been upgraded to interstate quality since the track closed. I've never been to W'boro, but you can't compare today's roads to what was there when those tracks were declining.

M and D certainly have a lot in common with Darlington in terms of market size. But as I've said twice now, market size wasn't the only factor in Rockingham's death. There were a lot of physical features that weren't up to the standards of the other tracks on the schedule in the 2000s. The Cup garages were antiquated, the Busch garages little more than covered stalls. The port-a-johns were often cleaner than the bathrooms. NASCAR was still approaching the crest of its popularity, yet the Rock saw declining attendance. The track had changed hands twice in a decade, purchased by Penske and then sold to ISC. With declining audiences, ISC wasn't likely enthused about bringing the place up to 2003 standards (including facing the prospect of SAFER barriers). It didn't have a strong corporate history so when SMI went looking for a track to buy for race dates to transfer, ISC was happy to take the check.

Don't get me wrong, I love the place still. I'll be there is even a regional touring series running, but I sure won't buy my ticket in advance.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Turn back the clock. 74 wasn't a major highway back in 2003; it's been upgraded to interstate quality since the track closed. I've never been to W'boro, but you can't compare today's roads to what was there when those tracks were declining.

M and D certainly have a lot in common with Darlington in terms of market size. But as I've said twice now, market size wasn't the only factor in Rockingham's death. There were a lot of physical features that weren't up to the standards of the other tracks on the schedule in the 2000s. The Cup garages were antiquated, the Busch garages little more than covered stalls. The port-a-johns were often cleaner than the bathrooms. NASCAR was still approaching the crest of its popularity, yet the Rock saw declining attendance. The track had changed hands twice in a decade, purchased by Penske and then sold to ISC. With declining audiences, ISC wasn't likely enthused about bringing the place up to 2003 standards (including facing the prospect of SAFER barriers). It didn't have a strong corporate history so when SMI went looking for a track to buy for race dates to transfer, ISC was happy to take the check.

Don't get me wrong, I love the place still. I'll be there is even a regional touring series running, but I sure won't buy my ticket in advance.
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In the end we both know why Rockingham and Wilkesboro were closed, they were closed to move their dates to tracks that could fit more people in the stands and to new markets for nascar during the fad stages of the sport.

I don't know what shape Rockinham is in, it has to be in better shape than Wilksboro as there has been racing there in the past few years. But i know Wilkesboro will never see racing again, not unless they basically tear it down and rebuild it. It's a crying shame.

All four of those tracks (Mville, Darlington, Wilkesboro,and Rockinham) have personality that a lot of the newer tracks don't have.

I don't remember when 74 was finally finished, i honestly thought it was 4 lanes in 2003.
 
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