Who will be the first?

KTMLew01

KTMLew01

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Main complaint now from drivers is car won't turn in middle. As Nascar removes downforce the grip must be made up through mechanical means. That = going back to allowing the suspension to actually work. Springs that move and actually support the front of the car is only thing teams can use. Making them a car again instead of a huge go-kart. So who does it first? Reason the car doesn't turn is because the front suspension is basically solid. Stiffest end of car slides first is general rule. Especially on these short tracks where areo has less effect you should be able to allow more front end travel. Lets here it Aunty!
 
I think "car won't turn in the middle" is a result of increased entry speeds. Some of the more resourceful teams have already figured it out.
 
Fordracing7 said:
Works sometimes as long as you enough mechanical grip after the car lands and rotates and they launch.
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But these cars don't "land". The front susp is nearly solid above 50 mph. THAT, IMO, is the problem. But it's probably just my HATE for the splitter/sideskrt dragging pieces of ugly crap they run now.
 
KTMLew01 said:
Main complaint now from drivers is car won't turn in middle. As Nascar removes downforce the grip must be made up through mechanical means. That = going back to allowing the suspension to actually work. Springs that move and actually support the front of the car is only thing teams can use. Making them a car again instead of a huge go-kart. So who does it first? Reason the car doesn't turn is because the front suspension is basically solid. Stiffest end of car slides first is general rule. Especially on these short tracks where areo has less effect you should be able to allow more front end travel. Lets here it Aunty!
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I think you should sell your simulation software to the engineers in Charlotte, if you believe it's better than what they are using now. You could name your price, if it's truly better.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I think you should sell your simulation software to the engineers in Charlotte, if you believe it's better than what they are using now. You could name your price, if it's truly better.
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The set-up has to change when they remove downforce. Whole idea behind bumpstop suspension is to get car DOWN as far as possible w/o dragging racetrack for aero advantage. No/less travel also means less camber change. I HATE these cars that don't move.

Lets see if Rodney Childers comments on this question on twitter.
 
Measure the distance from the bottom of the splitter to the surface (set-up) plate. That's how much front suspension
travel current aero gee-gaws permit.

Teams tire test / simulate / practice to specific wheel rates ... a combination of spring / anti-roll bar and tire rates. There's a formula. Current front spring rates are actually softer than those used pre-splitter ... the extra wheel rate is derived from much larger anti-roll bars which also limit roll.

"Turning in the middle" is slang for steady-state cornering ... off the brake and throttle pedals ... steering inputs only. It doesn't last long but is obviously very important. So important that years ago, before simulation / testing with wheel load sensors installed, Roger Penske constructed a skid pad behind the team's shop in Pennsylvania. A very large, paved, complete circle. Around and around and around, faster and faster until oversteer or understeer showed up. Adjust / change components, etc. until a driver-happy balance was achieved. They used the thing for every car they raced in every series they ran before they loaded up. The results indicate that it paid for itself many times over.

I think what you're really seeing is the result of shock set-up. Different thing.
 
aunty dive said:
Measure the distance from the bottom of the splitter to the surface (set-up) plate. That's how much front suspension
travel current aero gee-gaws permit.

Teams tire test / simulate / practice to specific wheel rates ... a combination of spring / anti-roll bar and tire rates. There's a formula. Current front spring rates are actually softer than those used pre-splitter ... the extra wheel rate is derived from much larger anti-roll bars which also limit roll.

"Turning in the middle" is slang for steady-state cornering ... off the brake and throttle pedals ... steering inputs only. It doesn't last long but is obviously very important. So important that years ago, before simulation / testing with wheel load sensors installed, Roger Penske constructed a skid pad behind the team's shop in Pennsylvania. A very large, paved, complete circle. Around and around and around, faster and faster until oversteer or understeer showed up. Adjust / change components, etc. until a driver-happy balance was achieved. They used the thing for every car they raced in every series they ran before they loaded up. The results indicate that it paid for itself many times over.

I think what you're really seeing is the result of shock set-up. Different thing.
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Or missing the shock setup.
 
Denny Hamlin was trying to drive and figure out the engineering of Brad's Penske Ford, as he followed the #2.

I'm no fan of Denny, but I like the fact that he was problem solving like a good mammal. :)
 
aunty dive said:
I think what you're really seeing is the result of shock set-up. Different thing.
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The tie-down shocks they run now have to make it difficult.

BobbyFord said:
I think "car won't turn in the middle" is a result of increased entry speeds. Some of the more resourceful teams have already figured it out.
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I think the Penske bunch is really pushing the limit on rear skew. Saw some swervin going on at checkers.

Crickets from Rodney Childers. Just what i expected.
 
I noticed the skirts under the rocker panels flair out like those illegal mods last season in front of the rear tire. I think they cause a lot of punctured tires.
 
Matthew2470 said:
Can you imagine if the 48 was doing this? Meltdown of all meltdowns.
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Actually my theoretical improvement can't work without raising the ride height or splitter. The cars are less than 1.5 inches off the ground at the splitter now. It would be easy to see. They used to run a very expensive coil spring that coil-bound to set ride height. NASCAR outlawed those springs. Then got rid of ride height measurement so now only thing restricting ride height is splitter height and of course frame rails/exhaust, etc.. Too low and it shoots up the track cause wheels are basically off the ground when splitter contacts track.
 
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