Why wait?

T

The_Mad_Hatter

Guest
Should we just go ahead and declare Kasey Kahne one of the best drivers ever?

With the speed and grace he's showing in the big heavy cars, do we really need to wait for the inevitable victories and championships? Might as well go ahead and call the kid one of the best to strap on a driver's helmet now, IMO.

:p
 
I know, I know! I don't understand what's taking the rest of the world so long either. I mean the guy raced sprints, what else does he need to do? But some people are slow to realize exceptional driving talent. Boy, wait 'til they get a load of JJ Yeley and Damien Gardner and Donny Schatz.

And Tony Elliott!?! Oh my, don't even say that. The world isn't ready.

:cheers:
 
Matt Martin is a spoiled little brat. He'll only make it to cup if his daddy pays the way.
 
what about all the other cup drivers kids, jason jarrett, marlin, sure those 2 didnt make it to cup but got in busch and were garbage and oh ya earnhardt, but atleast earnhardt has actually did something with his opportunity, im sure someday we will see bobby labonte's son racing to along with matt martin, maybe one of rusty's kids?
 
Or what about another son of a great driver that would likely have been champ:Davey Allison? He certainly would have been one of the best ever.
 
Matt Martin will only make it to cup if his daddy pays the way?

Lets see who are some other drivers that had 'daddy's who payed the way'?

How about Richard Petty?Or Earnhardt Sr.Maybe Sterling Marlin?All had fathers with enough insider connections and money to 'pay the way'.Gordon's dad sure helped him a lot too.As did Mark Martin's.

And Dale Jarrett,Kyle Petty,David Bonnett,Barry Bodine.And that isnt even mentioning Jr.or Kerry.Or about a dozen more.

What was your point again,66?
 
66...Matt is like 12 years old. How can you have an issue with a 12 year old?
 
Originally posted by 97forever@Mar 19 2003, 12:07 PM
Matt Martin will only make it to cup if his daddy pays the way?

Lets see who are some other drivers that had 'daddy's who payed the way'?

How about Richard Petty?Or Earnhardt Sr.Maybe Sterling Marlin?All had fathers with enough insider connections and money to 'pay the way'.Gordon's dad sure helped him a lot too.As did Mark Martin's.

And Dale Jarrett,Kyle Petty,David Bonnett,Barry Bodine.And that isnt even mentioning Jr.or Kerry.Or about a dozen more.

What was your point again,66?
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DE's dad was dead before he made it to cup
 
When ya grow up pretty surrounded by racing, there is a natural and understandable tendency to lean towards entering the fray and some understanding is gained by osmosis or something I guess.

And there is no doubt it greatly enhances the possibility of having a chance to prove your mettle, for good or bad. In the long run it will only carry you so far.

Would not be so quick to write Jason and Steadman (assuming those are the Jarret and Marlin referred to). They are both young enough yet to not have reached any potential they might have. Some folks take a bit longer to hit their stride, DJ and Sterling were not highly regarded early in their careers either.

Young Hendrick got his shot through family connections and at times was not half bad. Decided for whatever reasons that the game was not for him and walked away.

David Pearson had a couple of progeny who have taken a shot and not gone anywhere as yet, and likely at this point won't.

DJ's brother (Glenn) went a couple of rounds and that was about it.

Daddy can pay perhaps "pay" you way in, but he can't buy your way through. Somewhere along the line you gotta stand on your own.
 
Originally posted by paul@Mar 19 2003, 01:37 PM
So his Dad had nothing to do with his career?
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I really don't think his dad made enough money to help him that much, I thought the jest of this was $$$$$$$$$$$ and everything i have read tells me DE had to work very hard for the $$ to race.
However i think his dad was the reason he got into racin, Ralph E Sr. was one of the best drivers of his time.
 
If Ralph Sr. was one of the best drivers of his time, how come he never went into Grand National or only won one title in the Sportsman cars?
Strange how no one outside of a few folks in racing ever heard of Ralph before Dale made it into the big time; then suddenly he's one of the all time greats?
Get real here folks. Ralph raced a sportsman car on the weekends at the local tracks.
He was never rich nor famous and was certainly not one of the greats.
 
boB, BLOW ME !!! Since when does your opinion become the word ? Wasen't it you that said NH was one of the better tracks out there. And after that statement i am to beleive anything you say. I think not........

Just because you are not rich enough to race in the upper class dosen't mean you not good.

And you need to get your head out of your ***, Ralph E drove for a living and he did race some Grand National Just could afford to race often. Like you said he was a poor man...

you are exactly what i hate about the north
 
de...and you're what most people hate about Earnhardt fans from the south.
 
I'll repeat myself for the benefit of those folks who are so smart about racing.
Nobody in racing ever heard of Ralph Earnhardt until his son became famous.
Simple fact. He raced in the sportsman divisions and was never rich or famous until Dale starting winning; then suddenly, he was one of the top 50 drivers in the sport. There were a whole lot of racers over the years who supported themselves racing in the lower divisions, including the only nine time NASCAR champion.
Get real DE7whatever, you only show your own lack of common sense and limited knowledge of the sport by posting things like your little tirade about people from the south hating us northerners. I have raced in the south, I have family in the south,both Georgia and Mississippi and you can't get anymore south than that, and thankfully your attitude is not what I've seen from most southerners.
You my friend are simply too doggone stupid to see truth or accept facts when they are right in front of your face.
Some famous guy once said that "There are none so blind as those who will not see."
He must have known you personally.
 
DE7,
On further reflection, I guess if a fan reads Winston Cup Scene and gets his information from the message boards and hasn't figured out yet that most of what he reads is that which the powers that be in the sport wish for fans to read, that fan would probably have the same attitude as you display. Of course your unbridalled hatred for anyone from the north seems to come from a complete lack of knowing what you're talking about and a further lack of caring whether you are making a complete fool of yourself or not.
Don't your hood and robes need washing or something?
 
Originally posted by de7xwcc@Mar 19 2003, 04:02 PM
boB, BLOW ME !!! Since when does your opinion become the word ? Wasen't it you that said NH was one of the better tracks out there. And after that statement i am to beleive anything you say. I think not........
Just because you are not rich enough to race in the upper class dosen't mean you not good.
And you need to get your head out of your ***, Ralph E drove for a living and he did race some Grand National Just could afford to race often. Like you said he was a poor man...

you are exactly what i hate about the north
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Interesting reply, de7xwcc. Not sure what the connection is between differing opinions on the ability of a race driver and a reason to say, "you are exactly what I hate about the north", though.

It was Ralph Earnhardts' choice not to race long distances away from his home and about the furthest he traveled regularly to race was Asheville, quite a far piece considering the roads and small purses.

Whether he was truly one of the "50 all-time greats" is subject to debate, just as the ever-lasting discussion of who was the all-time best, Petty, Pearson, Earnhardt, Turner, Roberts, Yarborough, Richmond or Allison.

Ralph Earnhardt's ability was not acknowledged until his son won several championships and at the time it became common information Dale began actively politicking on his father's behalf to receive awards is good reason for any logical person to question whether Ralph Earnhardt was truly deserving of them. That doesn't mean Ralph Earnhardt was an above or below average driver. Happens all the time where others influence decisions to those who might not be deserving. It also goes the other way and people promote decisions of an award to those deserving of it. There is no harm is pointing out the obvious in this situation. Politiking by Dale with his celebrity status could easily have tipped the scale in Ralph's favor.

The Earnhardt fans feel the awards were deserved and there will always be a logical doubter asking the same questions. The pro and con opinions are not regional, they come from both the north and from the south.
 
Hey Whizzer,

I'll have you know that I put my pants on both legs at once. Hold 'em out at arm's length and jump right on in.
It takes a little practice, but is pretty easy once you get the hang of it and it's quicker than all that jumping around on one leg then the other stuff.
Wife thought I was crazy at first, but now she's learned how to make it work too.
 
boB Thank You, You have set me in my place i guess i was wrong

you have your opinion i have mine , guess i just got defensive when you take exception to my opinion. you have a nack for picking apart anyone that dosen't agree with you
again thank you o great boB for putting me in my place
 
I have no desire to debate whether Ralph Earnhardt was or was not among the 50 greatest drivers in NASCAR history. He was a sprtsman division champion, but never finished in the top 10 standings on teh mother circuit, called Grand National in his time.

But since the subject came up, allowed some facts should be present.

Ralph made his Grand National debut in 1956 at Hickory Speedway, and it was an auspicious one. he staarted that race on the pole. in a Ford no less, and finished second to Speedy Thompson who was driving one of Carl Keikhaefer's Chryslers. It was to be as high a finish as Ralph would ever have.

His most successful season was 1961. He made 8 starts that year and had 5 top ten finishes to show for it. (If ya go to NOL and look him up it will show 7 top tens I think, but every source I have shows 5) He duplicated his 2nd place finish from his first race by finishing second at Charlotte Motor Speedway. He also had a third place finish at Atlanta Motor Speedway. He finished that season 17th in the points standings, his career best

His busiest season followed in 1962 when he made 17 starts. Ralph had 6 top ten finishes that year. The best were a third at Concord Speedway and 5th back at Hickory Speedway. He finished the year ranked 29th. It was the second best standing of his career

All told Ralph made 51 career starts in the Grand National division, he 16 top ten finishes. He never won arace and he sat on the pole one time in his first start. He raced in 1956 and 1957. And then again from 1961 through 1964.

These are the facts regarding Ralph's Grand National career, make of them what you will.
 
HS,
According to NASCAR, that record was good enough to make him one of the top fifty drivers of all time?

I would think that there were a bunch more deserving drivers who were overlooked because their name wasn't Earnhardt or their son wasn't one of the sports top stars at the time the list was compiled.
But then again, being a northerner, I guess I wouldn't really know about things of that nature.
 
Originally posted by boB@Mar 19 2003, 07:52 PM
Hey Whizzer,

I'll have you know that I put my pants on both legs at once. Hold 'em out at arm's length and jump right on in.
It takes a little practice, but is pretty easy once you get the hang of it and it's quicker than all that jumping around on one leg then the other stuff.
Wife thought I was crazy at first, but now she's learned how to make it work too.
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Actually boB, I tried to put both feet into my pants at the same time during the thirty years as a volunteer fireman. I kept my boots and pants in them. Damn near killed myself a couple of times trying to jump in with both feet so changed my approach and went back to the tried and true method of one foot at a time. Humility does it every time.

Life has little things that make it interesting. There are people who think they are better than others for whatever reason and in many cases, they do not know or understand the reason for thier feelings.

My Daddy was a simple country veterinarian and he always told me it doesn't make any difference whether you sit next to the brakeman or the president of the railroad, you treat them all the same. Followed by, until they give you reason to do otherwise.

There is a reason for the signature line. It means what it says. There is always someone who thinks they have or are something special but can't explain it and makes them better than you or me.
 
Originally posted by boB@Mar 19 2003, 03:48 PM
HS,
According to NASCAR, that record was good enough to make him one of the top fifty drivers of all time?

I would think that there were a bunch more deserving drivers who were overlooked because their name wasn't Earnhardt or their son wasn't one of the sports top stars at the time the list was compiled.
But then again, being a northerner, I guess I wouldn't really know about things of that nature.
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Anytime you compile a list of the top some number of drivers or other I reckon someone will get their nose out of whack. Goes with the territory.

There are names among those in the All-Time Greatest 50 Drivers of NASCAR or whatever, that made me raise an eyebrow. It might be simply my ignorance of thsoe drivers, or my lack of appreciation for what i might know....

It does seem that surprisingly they paid some heed to the sportman drivers of the past, but still.....let me elaborate.

To answer your question bluntly..no Ralph should not be there.

Other names some may accept but I question, if someone knows why they are there by all means sound off.

Jerry Cook
Richie Evans
Ray Hendrick
Jack Ingram

These guys might not raise an eyebrow except these folks are to the best of my knowledge left off:

Dick Hutcherson
Parnelli Jones
Banjo Matthews
Speedy Thompson
Nelson Stacy
Wendell Scott
Jack Smith

This is kinda off the top of my head, someone might want to check it out.
 
Richie Evans - Simply put, you don't leave off the all-time leader in NASCAR touring championships (9), even if they came in the modifieds. This isn't the 50 greatest Winston Cup drivers ever, it's the 50 greatest NASCAR drivers ever, regardless of division.

Jack Ingram - again, not a Winston Cup driver, but great nonetheless. He's 2nd all time in Busch Series wins with 31 (behind only Mark Martin's 45), and was a regular winner back when it was still the sportsman division. In the first four years of the Busch Series, he won the championship twice and was 2nd to Sam Ard the other two years. I have no problem with him being one of the 50 greatest.
 
Great records and great drivers,

But left out are folks like Sam Ard, Butch Lindley and Red Farmer and a host of other touring or sportsman drivers.

Like I said someone is gonna be left out.........
 
Absolutely correct HS! I would say something to the affect that their has never been any Earnhardt[let alone Ralph]fit to polish Red's helmet.But out of recognizing the fact that I am biased in matters such as these,I will refrain.


So I never said it people.
 
Originally posted by HardScrabble@Mar 19 2003, 09:54 PM
Great records and great drivers,

But left out are folks like Sam Ard, Butch Lindley and Red Farmer and a host of other touring or sportsman drivers.

Like I said someone is gonna be left out.........
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In the list of "50 Greatest Drivers in NASCAR" consisting of a few from the modified ranks as well as the now Winston Cup Series (f.k.a. Grand National) note "Red" Farmer is on this list. The list was compiled by NASCAR in celebration of thier 50th anniversary.

To my way of thinking, the effort by Dale Earnhardt on behalf of his father, is the only reason modified drivers were included in the list of 50 greatest drivers by NASCAR.

In the past, NASCAR treated the modified series as a third class citizen just as the later named Busch series never got the recognition it deserved until the last decade. So all in all, the incorporation of Ralph Earnhardt on the list of fifty greatest drivers is legitimately questionable, especially in light of his record as indicated by Hardscrabble. Combined with knowing Dale was very active in politiking for his father to recieve recognition is further reason to suspect the validity of the choice.
 
Originally posted by Mopardh9@Mar 19 2003, 10:48 AM
What is the point of this thread?????
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That Kasey Kahne is soon going to be a major contender in the upper ranks of NASCAR.

On an unrelated note, I saw Billy Pauch's son driving a big block DIRT modified over the weekend. Supposed to be a pretty good driver. Ray Evernham is already signed on as a sponsor.
 
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