Windtunnel discussion 4-3-11

blue92

blue92

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The discussion was shorten the races and qualify the same day, do away with start and park-ers. What say you guys/gals?
 
I don't think races should be shortened, but the field should. 35 get in on time alone, I would be happy with that.
 
Shorten some and eliminate others. Pocono and Kansas dont need 2 races. The first race at Dover should be 300 laps/miles. I have no problem with the 43 car field.
 
Spike said:
Shorten some and eliminate others. Pocono and Kansas dont need 2 races. The first race at Dover should be 300 laps/miles. I have no problem with the 43 car field.
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Dover's more likely to lose a race before Pocono or Kansas (as it should, I've seen pitiful crowds at Dover when NASCAR was getting record attendance and record ratings).
 
Should be

Just like Saturday night local races! Time trials, A nad B races (perhaps even a C race) a Consulation race and then a 100 lap race for the points and most of the money!

These long follow the leader races leave us all wanting more real racing. As it is now we get about 10 or so laps of racing at the end of a boring race.

As described above the entire afternoon or evening will be hard racing. It's worth a try anyway.
Betsy;);)
 
Some races should be shortened other should be left alone. Instead of taking two hours to qualify how about two heat races with a random draw to start?
 
Its fine the way it is and if Dover loses laps the fall race not the one I go to I always want more then the 400 I get.
 
I used to be against shortening the races because that's one thing NASCAR has had over other forms of racing. But seeing week after week drivers run their fastest laps of the race in the final 20 laps or so, that tells me to shorten the races. That Martinsville race yesterday was about an hour too long.

Some of the best races I've seen the last few years were the short truck races at Michigan and Pocono. Those guys raced their tails off from the start and it made for good racing.
 
MRM said:
I used to be against shortening the races because that's one thing NASCAR has had over other forms of racing. But seeing week after week drivers run their fastest laps of the race in the final 20 laps or so, that tells me to shorten the races. That Martinsville race yesterday was about an hour too long.

Some of the best races I've seen the last few years were the short truck races at Michigan and Pocono. Those guys raced their tails off from the start and it made for good racing.
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Yep Totally agree, shorten all the races, 300 miles or 300 laps, except for the road tracks. Qualify everyone on time, no top 35 rule, and if you don't get a full field so what. Maybe that way sponsors would be more available and some of the fringe teams could actually run better with a decent sponsor. I don't know we are so obsessed with full fields, I'd rather see 30-36 competitive cars than see 6 or 7 cars drop out after 15 laps due to "brake failure". Heat races wouldn't work I don't think, but I'm really starting to hate the fact that the last 50 laps of a race is the only part I need to watch. Used to be you would get one green flag period where it would be boring, now it seems that lasts for at least 2/3 of the race.
 
blue92 said:
The discussion was shorten the races and qualify the same day, do away with start and park-ers. What say you guys/gals?
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I'm not even sure why I care what they say on that show about NASCAR but I disagree completely. I drive 400+ miles to most of the races I attend and there's no way I'd do that for a single day, shortened event. I can't grasp the logic that a shorter race is somehow better. Why is a driver more up on the wheel @ a 300 lap race @ Dover as opposed to the last 300 laps of the current events held there? He's not.
 
If anything a shorter race will decrease the period of agression because they would still be saving a car until a certain percentage of the race which with a shorter race would be smaller.
 
Betsy said:
Just like Saturday night local races! Time trials, A nad B races (perhaps even a C race) a Consulation race and then a 100 lap race for the points and most of the money!

These long follow the leader races leave us all wanting more real racing. As it is now we get about 10 or so laps of racing at the end of a boring race.

As described above the entire afternoon or evening will be hard racing. It's worth a try anyway.
Betsy;);)
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agree 100%. radical change for nascar but i'd bet they would gain more fans.
 
Betsy said:
Just like Saturday night local races! Time trials, A nad B races (perhaps even a C race) a Consulation race and then a 100 lap race for the points and most of the money!

These long follow the leader races leave us all wanting more real racing. As it is now we get about 10 or so laps of racing at the end of a boring race.

As described above the entire afternoon or evening will be hard racing. It's worth a try anyway.
Betsy;);)
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It works for the all star showdown, but I would not like it every week. Not every race is boring, Martinsville was perfect yesterday.
 
kkfan91 said:
If anything a shorter race will decrease the period of agression because they would still be saving a car until a certain percentage of the race which with a shorter race would be smaller.
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The shorter the race the less time Driver X has to ride around and the more he has to race hard.
 
kkfan91 said:
If anything a shorter race will decrease the period of agression because they would still be saving a car until a certain percentage of the race which with a shorter race would be smaller.
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It works for the truck series.:beerbang:
 
Here's an idea. Make all race 500 miles long, short track, cookie cutter, superspeedway, road course or any other. No qualifying, line up according to points (invert the top six) and limit teams to 43. If they want to do away with start and parkers, allow those not in the top 40 a chance to race with their own qualifying an hour before the race.
 
kkfan91 said:
Its fine the way it is and if Dover loses laps the fall race not the one I go to I always want more then the 400 I get.
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Dover needs to be shortened. Every 400 mile Dover race I went to was four hours in length.

And they need to lose a race. HORRIBLE attendance.
 
Once in a while I watch some of the older races on ESPN classic and it's not as if the races were green to checkers, flat-out, hard, door to door racing. In fact, some of them were more boring than many of the races I've seen in the last few years.

So I don't know that racing has changed so much as fan's expectations have and it's up to Nascar to decide if they need to change or maintain the status quo.

Do races need to change? Perhaps, as I know the fans sure have.
 
#17D500winner said:
Once in a while I watch some of the older races on ESPN classic and it's not as if the races were green to checkers, flat-out, hard, door to door racing. In fact, some of them were more boring than many of the races I've seen in the last few years.

So I don't know that racing has changed so much as fan's expectations have and it's up to Nascar to decide if they need to change or maintain the status quo.

Do races need to change? Perhaps, as I know the fans sure have.
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The thing is we didn't have a chance to watch every race back then. It was Wide World of Sports on a Saturday afternoon, once in a while getting a chance to see the Winston Cup guys. It didn't matter back then because we were thirsting for any kind of coverage of this. Now we are over saturated in a culture that wants instant gratification. Watching a a 4 hour race from start to finish, when lots of time there is over 2 hours of just ho hum racing isn't my idea of fun. I think Nascar would be much better making the races shorter, puting a lower class race on the menu with it. Lets say run a Whelen Modified race with the Cup guys at Bristol and Martinsville, 150 lap Mod race then 300 lap Cup race. I'd love to see something like that. When the Cup guys run the bigger tracks, maybe run late models, or a truck race in conjuction with the big boys. Get two different classes in the same time period as a long Cup race, plus give the lower classes tv exposure. I think this would help ratings and give everyone a chance to see some of their local guys that tour sometimes on the tube.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Dover needs to be shortened. Every 400 mile Dover race I went to was four hours in length.

And they need to lose a race. HORRIBLE attendance.
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I'm not complaining I like it how it is, their attendence problem is causes its way over built it has 120,000 seats.
 
wilson89 said:
I am against shortining the field and the length of the races. I think a couple races need to lose dates though and add a couple at other tracks.
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The jury's out on the race lengths.

How Portland doesn't even have a Truck race is beyond me.

Losing races in St. Louis and Memphis (Nashville destined to close as well) because a terribly mismanaged company is in dire financial trouble was a setback.

St. Louis, Nashville, Milwaukee, Montreal and Iowa would be good Cup venues. Nationwide or Trucks should be in Portland (40k for a K&N Pro Series race, that's just unreal).

Dover, Kansas, Richmond, Loudon should each lose a date. Finale should be in Las Vegas.
 
I see NA$CAR's problem being the Chase. When I watched the races in the 80s and 90s I didn't see them coasting around like I do today. Also I think it had to do with the drivers didn't want the other drivers to beat them even one lap so they all raced hard every lap.
 
blue92 said:
I see NA$CAR's problem being the Chase. When I watched the races in the 80s and 90s I didn't see them coasting around like I do today. Also I think it had to do with the drivers didn't want the other drivers to beat them even one lap so they all raced hard every lap.
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Maybe they should award points, EVERY lap, using the same point system they currently have. This would cut down on sandbaggers, such as Harvick and KB would be way out in front in points. :)
 
Here's another thought about a new system. List the drivers like this. The driver with the most wins at the top of the list. The next spot goes to the driver who has the next most wins and so on. When there is a tie, the driver with the most second place finishes will be next and if its still a tie, or no second place finishes, the one with the most third place finishes and so on and so forth. Might be complex, but one thing for certain is finishing as high as you can would be a priority. Just ten spots for the chase again. Imagine now we have five teams with just one win and none of them have a second place or third place. There is room for only three of those five teams in the chase. Those five teams are all going for a win first, then a second and on down.

I'm still thinking of other new systems...
 
Stewart Fan said:
I used to like Richmond but I can't even remember last time I saw a good race there.
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Richmond races are pretty bad, have been for a long time. Spring 2008, I think the best racing was for 24th position until 5 laps to go.

Fall 2006 was boring until the final two laps when The Closer got around Kyle Busch on the last lap (Bill Weber ruined that race for y'all).

Dover races are even worse. Nice facility but you can't get people to show up when the racing sucks -- especially when the Spring race is against the Preakness (Baltimore) and the weather for the fall race -- well it's either 40* or 95*.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Martinsville is the only good short track left.

Bristol racing is good for side-by-side racing but it's exactly like Texas and the other superspeedways now.
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You just made my point for me ....it is good but who wants to watch that for 3.5-4 hours? Shorten the damn race and it will be much more exciting, all the races will be. Oh yeh and get rid of the stupid Chase.
 
No Chase, if it's a 500 mile race points given to the driver that leads at every 125 miles, 400 mile race every 100 miles, and 300 mile race every 75 miles. Plain and simple, points also given to those that finish in the top 15 at the end of each race. 100 points to the winner down to 1 point for 15th. 100 points for the pole winner, 50 points to the team with the fastest pit stop during a race. No start and parks fastest 40 race.
 
blue92 said:
No Chase, if it's a 500 mile race points given to the driver that leads at every 125 miles, 400 mile race every 100 miles, and 300 mile race every 75 miles. Plain and simple, points also given to those that finish in the top 15 at the end of each race. 100 points to the winner down to 1 point for 15th. 100 points for the pole winner, 50 points to the team with the fastest pit stop during a race. No start and parks fastest 40 race.
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If we are coming up with unnecessarily complicated points systems why not do this:

47 point bonus for qualifying 13th 37th and 8th.
Leading laps 5, 32, 85, and 133 gets you 137 points.
If on those laps your running 17th you lose 5 points.
If you have a pit stop under 14 seconds you get an extra 100 bucks for ever member of the pit crew.
If an odd numbered car leads an even lap they get 73 points and the same for an even number car on an odd lap.
Leading laps ending in 4 gets you 4 times the number of points of laps you've already led.
Every 30 laps every car must do a burnout and turn around and complete one lap in the opposite direction. The car that covers the most distance the wrong way gets a 40 point bonus the car that covers the least loses 137 points.
 
kkfan91 said:
I'm not complaining I like it how it is, their attendence problem is causes its way over built it has 120,000 seats.
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Baltimore, Washington, New York, Philadelphia, Atlantic City are all in driving distance of Dover Downs.

No excuses.


They'd sell 120,000 seats if the racing was entertaining.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Baltimore, Washington, New York, Philadelphia, Atlantic City are all in driving distance of Dover Downs.

No excuses.


They'd sell 120,000 seats if the racing was entertaining.
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I find them entertaining.
 
1. Dump the playoff. It's possibly the single most derisive concept which has led to the current poor excuse for stock car racing we currently have. (It AND the horrible one-size-fits-all NA__AR designed POS car they race)

2. Measure the length of the race on all tracks of over a mile in length in Kilometers, as they do now at the road courses and at Phoenix. For example, the Pocono Pennsylvania 500 would be 500 Km's, or very close to 240 miles. Exempt two, possibly three landmark races from this rule: The Daytona 500, the World 600 at Charlotte and the Southern 500, when they return it to its rightful place, Darlington, on Labor Day! If they don't return it to Darlington, then make it a kilometer race also.

3. Dump the playoff.

4. On tracks of less than a mile in length have a maximum starting field of 34 cars.

5. Dump the #!@*! playoff!

6. Do away with the blatantly unfair Chosen 35 Rule. Give the team two chances to qualify and the fastest make the field, the rest pack up and go, no matter if your name is Johnson or Earnhardt.

7. ...and less I forget, GET RID OF THE RIDICULOUS PLAYOFF!
 
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