DanicaFreak
2021 Big Gator winner <Green Monster>
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Wrong direction for women in indycar
- Thread starter DanicaFreak
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sdj
Just a race fan
DanicaFreak
2021 Big Gator winner <Green Monster>
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I actually agree with the author in alot of areas....
I dont know if emphasizing differences is the way to go
I dont know if emphasizing differences is the way to go
Zerkfitting
Team Owner
I recall a local autocross event had male and female classes - I thought that was dumb. The car and track can't tell the difference.
Simple Fan
First or Last
Agree with Mann. Don't understand Jorda's logic, they're not equals because they race with the men? It's the only sport that allows such and should be more of a focus on developing more to do so. I don't think an all women series is bad for development reasons but them racing men does more for women than anything.
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Michael Geronime
Guest
That’s great: “DanicaFreak Green monster”. She’s definitely a feisty little gal! However to the point of the question here, Can women compete in Indycar? Personally, my male chauvinist answer is probably not. I think the reason a woman has never finished higher than, what is it? 8th? in the Indy 500 is because of that one ingredient men have and women don’t: testosterone, that mental ability (irrational, maybe) to go a little bit faster in the curves taking that little extra level of risk men frequently take.
As an 18 year old who did take that little extra risk, on a tree swing, but this time lost, fell, and became a paraplegic, I can attest to the extra risks men take (in rehab, among all the paralyzed people present, men overwhelmingly out numbered women).
Someday a woman may appear in the paddock “with the balls” (Danica the monster has come close
) to take that extra risk, and may become an Indycar winner, but until then, I doubt women will out-achieve men in this sport.
As an 18 year old who did take that little extra risk, on a tree swing, but this time lost, fell, and became a paraplegic, I can attest to the extra risks men take (in rehab, among all the paralyzed people present, men overwhelmingly out numbered women).
Someday a woman may appear in the paddock “with the balls” (Danica the monster has come close
) to take that extra risk, and may become an Indycar winner, but until then, I doubt women will out-achieve men in this sport.
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Michael Geronime
Guest
Re: “They think because we are driving a car we are on the same level as men, which is completely not true because we will never be the same as them. I have had to fight through many things to get to the top of this sport, just because I am a woman, and that is not fair.”
Well,
, golly gee, that’s really tough!
What other ism do you want to blame things on when they get tough??? Suck it up, and move on!
Charlie Spencer
Road courses and short tracks.
^ 
That’s great: “DanicaFreak Green monster”. She’s definitely a feisty little gal! However to the point of the question here, Can women compete in Indycar? Personally, my male chauvinist answer is probably not. I think the reason a woman has never finished higher than, what is it? 8th? in the Indy 500 is because of that one ingredient men have and women don’t: testosterone, that mental ability (irrational, maybe) to go a little bit faster in the curves taking that little extra level of risk men frequently take.
As an 18 year old who did take that little extra risk, on a tree swing, but this time lost, fell, and became a paraplegic, I can attest to the extra risks men take (in rehab, among all the paralyzed people present, men overwhelmingly out numbered women).
Someday a woman may appear in the paddock “with the balls” (Danica the monster has come close
Actually, Danica Patrick finished 3rd in 2009.
FLRacingFan
Team Owner
Carmen must forget that Pippa whipped her in Indy Lights.
Doc Austin
Back From The Dead
Didn't we already have that with Bruce Jenner?
Doc Austin
Back From The Dead
I couldn't love women any more, which is why idea of one getting being involved in a Gordon Smiley kind of accident really turns my stomach. Maria Divilota's accident really, really upset me.
As men, we can't win and will always be wrong. We are supposed to protect women, right? Even rabid feminists go along with that. If another man is smacking a woman around, I am supposed to beat his ass (unless he beats mine instead), but if I want to protect a woman from getting killed in a race car I'm a sexist, misogynist bunghole. The dialog is already poisoned against us. Unless you want to give every woman her way every single time, you must be a sexist, misogynist bunghole. Not only can you not win, you lose every single time.
Who can be surprised that men have a physical advantage? After all, the women are not screaming about equality when they hit off the red tees in golf, and you don't see them lining up to fight any of the UFC heavyweights. Sorry. Stop it. We might be equal, but we are not the same. We're not. This isn't misogyny. It's science.
Danica did a lot better in Indycars than she gets credit for, but remember how hard she worked at it. She always shows up with 0% body fat and is as fit as any of the men. In this respect, she's much better equipped to deal with a brutal high powered monster than an average woman, or even a reasonably fit one. Danica has always taken her fitness to almost the Schumacher level, and that's why she had success in what has always been a man's sport.
Where Carmen Jorda runs out of credibility is that she has never won anything. It's actually worse than even that, but I am trying not to be an insensitive, sexist, misogynist bunghole. Maybe she would be better off saying that it's just her who can't compete with the men. I think she is just playing the woman card because she cannot otherwise get a drive on results. You can bet if she wanted any other job she would be crowing about how she could do it as well as any man.
Don't get me wrong. If they can do it, let them have at it. I just hate all the excuses and shaming men because human physiology makes us physically stronger with more muscle mass. Women who don't like it need to leave us alone and take it up with the creator.
As men, we can't win and will always be wrong. We are supposed to protect women, right? Even rabid feminists go along with that. If another man is smacking a woman around, I am supposed to beat his ass (unless he beats mine instead), but if I want to protect a woman from getting killed in a race car I'm a sexist, misogynist bunghole. The dialog is already poisoned against us. Unless you want to give every woman her way every single time, you must be a sexist, misogynist bunghole. Not only can you not win, you lose every single time.
Who can be surprised that men have a physical advantage? After all, the women are not screaming about equality when they hit off the red tees in golf, and you don't see them lining up to fight any of the UFC heavyweights. Sorry. Stop it. We might be equal, but we are not the same. We're not. This isn't misogyny. It's science.
Danica did a lot better in Indycars than she gets credit for, but remember how hard she worked at it. She always shows up with 0% body fat and is as fit as any of the men. In this respect, she's much better equipped to deal with a brutal high powered monster than an average woman, or even a reasonably fit one. Danica has always taken her fitness to almost the Schumacher level, and that's why she had success in what has always been a man's sport.
Where Carmen Jorda runs out of credibility is that she has never won anything. It's actually worse than even that, but I am trying not to be an insensitive, sexist, misogynist bunghole. Maybe she would be better off saying that it's just her who can't compete with the men. I think she is just playing the woman card because she cannot otherwise get a drive on results. You can bet if she wanted any other job she would be crowing about how she could do it as well as any man.
Don't get me wrong. If they can do it, let them have at it. I just hate all the excuses and shaming men because human physiology makes us physically stronger with more muscle mass. Women who don't like it need to leave us alone and take it up with the creator.
Charlie Spencer
Road courses and short tracks.
The woman getting beaten didn't choose to get hit. The woman driving the race car made her own choice to accept the accompanying risks. Does that make the difference clearer?
Doc Austin
Back From The Dead
It was kind of an extreme example, but the fact remains we were drilled from the time we were children to protect the women. I don't have a problem with that because we are, in fact, physically stronger than them. I don't want to see women beat up, and everyone agrees, but if it bothers me to see one vaporized in an Indycar, and that makes me a bad guy. You have to admit there's a certain amount of hypocrisy in that dual standard.
But hey, if women want to race, I'm ok with that. I've just seen people killed and my instincts are to keep women safe from that.
Charlie Spencer
Road courses and short tracks.
Dude, there are plenty of women physically stronger than I am. If I'm getting my @$$ whipped and one of them wants to step and cover for me, I don't have any problem with that.
The majority of men may be physically stronger than the majority of women, not all men are not physically stronger than all women. It bothers me as much to see a woman in an accident as a man. Before anyone says it's a generational / cultural thing, I'm 58 and was raised as a military brat.
Doc Austin
Back From The Dead
I did not mean to imply all men are stronger than all women, but it is undeniable science men in general have more muscle mass, which makes them stronger.
I've actually had to step in and defend a woman or two, One time I had the guy pushed up against the wall and the woman punches me in the kindey. As I am picking myself off the ground she screams at me "He's my man and he can slap me around if he wants to." Ok honey. You deserve each other.
For me it's worse with women, and if that makes me a sexist I guess that's what I am. Devilota's accident really bothered me.
It has to be a cultural thing., In some countries the women can't vote or drive and from there it devolves into legitimized murder in the name of "honor." Comparatively speaking, you and I are saints.
StandOnIt
Farm Truck
there hasn't been a women driver in F-1 for over 40 years. I for one believe if there was a women that was good enough in these days in times they would be there. Don't know about anybody else, but I watched Danica for years and many others before then and during her reign of terror. The good ones are few and far between IMO. I don't hear anybody saying to ban women from motorsports, but some seem to be acting like that is the deal. Wonder what would happen with a men only series? Most men don't give a sheet, but heaven help ya if you criticize one. If a women only series would help more women to be better racers and I believe it could, more power to them and on the other hand, nobody is stopping them if they continue to race with the men.
Doc Austin
Back From The Dead
There was an all woman series. It was the Panoz GT Women's GT Challenge that ran with the ALMS in 99/2000 They drove Panoz Esperantes, and usually had a good size field. No one notable came out of that series.
However, note that Cristina Neilson was last year's IMSA GT Daytona Champion, so it can be done.
Charlie Spencer
Road courses and short tracks.
Not to put myself in the Michael Geronime camp, but I wonder if there aren't many women in racing simply because there aren't many women interested in it?
Doc Austin
Back From The Dead
I fly radio controlled airplanes and the only women we see at the field are pilot's girlfriends, mothers, daughters, etc. They are not there to fly, and I'm guessing that it's because they are not interested. It's a man's hobby and most women simply have no interest.
I was really confused about this at first........
I take it that Pippa is upset because they didn't put a more qualified person in this position. My first inclination was: At least they are trying to get SOME progress started by having a woman give strategy to having more women in the sport. And I wondered, "Does Pippa think they should have given HER this job?"
Or are they just putting a woman in this position to make it look good?
Or since Danica is retiring after next season, does Pippa think Danica should have been given the job after next year?
I remember Janet Guthrie sure had it tough. I remember AJ and a lot of others really giving her a hard time. Danica was really something special in my book. I really loved to see her race and do well. I was really ticked off when she went to NASCAR just for the money type of deal.
I stopped trying to figure out what was on women's minds a long time ago. I know they have it tough when they try and compete against men in sports like car racing.
You just have to hope someone gives them a break I guess. The men have to realize that women go to the races, too. And like football and everything else, if they want to put more money in their pockets, they'll have to welcome women too, I guess.
I always laugh when I remember one of John Wayne's favorite lines in his old cowboy movies, when he'd shake his head and murmur,
"Lord help us should they ever get the vote!!"
I take it that Pippa is upset because they didn't put a more qualified person in this position. My first inclination was: At least they are trying to get SOME progress started by having a woman give strategy to having more women in the sport. And I wondered, "Does Pippa think they should have given HER this job?"
Or are they just putting a woman in this position to make it look good?
Or since Danica is retiring after next season, does Pippa think Danica should have been given the job after next year?
I remember Janet Guthrie sure had it tough. I remember AJ and a lot of others really giving her a hard time. Danica was really something special in my book. I really loved to see her race and do well. I was really ticked off when she went to NASCAR just for the money type of deal.
I stopped trying to figure out what was on women's minds a long time ago. I know they have it tough when they try and compete against men in sports like car racing.
You just have to hope someone gives them a break I guess. The men have to realize that women go to the races, too. And like football and everything else, if they want to put more money in their pockets, they'll have to welcome women too, I guess.
I always laugh when I remember one of John Wayne's favorite lines in his old cowboy movies, when he'd shake his head and murmur,
"Lord help us should they ever get the vote!!"
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Michael Geronime
Guest
In my camp of one, err, maybe two, you’re certainly right: Women don’t have the same interests as men. The same is true with much of mathematics and engineering (never mind plain old mechanics/gearheads – When was the last time you had a woman service your car; in nearly 40 years of driving I don’t recall a single female mechanic!). Don’t get me wrong, if they can do it, and want to do it, more power to them. Let’s just not have any kind of quotas/affirmative action (or lowering of physical standards, e.g., the Special Forces in the military – that will cost lives!) to encourage an interest where there is very little.
By the way, I watched Christina Neilson last year nearly win the IMSA GT Daytona championship last year, and was rooting for her this year. Good for her for winning the championship this year.
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Michael Geronime
Guest
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Goodness gracious.
AndyMarquisLive
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
Danica Patrick finished fourth in the 2005 Indianapolis 500.
Someday a woman may appear in the paddock “with the balls” (Danica the monster has come close
Danica Patrick won an IndyCar race at Motegi in 2008.
AndyMarquisLive
I love short track racing (Taylor's Version)
This thread sure ignited some stupid sheot.
"Men are stronger than women" -- guess some of y'all should go three rounds in a cage with Holly Holm to prove that.
"Men are stronger than women" -- guess some of y'all should go three rounds in a cage with Holly Holm to prove that.
StandOnIt
Farm Truck
put her in with Cowboy, don't even go up to McGreggor
Doc Austin
Back From The Dead
You mean like ignoring science?
A multiple world champion professional fighter against us intent fatasses? OK, I'll concede that one.
Martial arts is more than strength. In fact, martial arts were developed to overcome size and strength deficits. It was designed, in part, to help give women a chance defending themselves against physically stronger men.
If having a man fighting Holly Holm is such a great idea, the UFC would gleefully make the match and rake in the money. Problem is, it's not a good idea. What would be funny would be watching dim wit feminists like Gloria Alred screaming about the man abusing the woman even if the woman walked into the cage of her own free will, threw the first blow and collected the check. Equality is great when it works for you, but its not so great when you get your ass handed to you.
There actually was a man/woman professional karate match, probably 40 years ago, between Beth Bussey and Joe Hess. Ironically it all started with a woman trying to prove she could compete in the ring with a man. Bussey hounded Hess in the media day after day trying to get him to fight. He simply didn't want to beat up a woman and said so. She called him a coward and all sorts of things until he simply had no choice than to take the fight. Hess did not want the fight, but she just wouldn't let it go. The feminists of the day jumped on the bandwagon screaming for the fight to happen, secure in the belief a man would never do it. Sometimes you just gotta be more careful what you ask for because you don't really want it. This backfired right in their faces in the most ridiculous way. Hess finally gave and reluctantly made the match, then spent most of the "fight" running from her (so he would not have to hit her), and when he finally did decided he wanted out of there, he put her away with a measuredly weak body shot......he hit her under the arm with the back of his knee, and they way she fell many feared she was dead.
Women hit off the red tees in golf because they can't drive the ball as far, a sad, inconvenient fact for those who want to say men and women are physically equal. Men are stronger than women. That's not misogyny. That biological fact. It's science, which will always trump politically correct drivel.
Men and women are different. Different doesn't mean superior, except maybe in that one area. I think most women can live with the fact they do not have the same physical strength as a man the same size. After all, we got over the idea that the earth is flat...........most of us anyway.
Everyone has gotten politically brainwashed to the point they can't think for themselves. You can't ignore science. Men and women are physiologically different, but people get so wound up in being politically correct that they can't (or won't) understand equality under the law has to do with rights, not with physical prowess.
If we are all so equal let's have foot races with crippled people. Oh, wait. Not fair? I thought we were all equal. What happened to that? What happened is that equality it such an overused and abused comcept that it does not mean anything any more.
Charlie Spencer
Road courses and short tracks.
Explain to me how that affects automobile racing.
Doc Austin
Back From The Dead
I did not say it did. It's just that pound for pound, men are physically stronger. AndyMarquisLive seems to think that is "stupid sheot," whereas science proves it's not.
We do have examples like Danica, Christina Neilson and Amy Rutan as successful women racers, so there's no doubt it can be done. I would never say women can't do it because we have already seen they can.
Let's not get so caught up in being liberal and tolerant, (and the rest of the feel good drivel) that we completely ignore science. Men are stronger than women and the earth is not flat.
Doc Austin
Back From The Dead
Some of you may find this to be fascinating reading.............. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hide-and-seek/201207/the-battle-the-sexes
Charlie Spencer
Road courses and short tracks.
If we agree it doesn't affect racing, then why are we discussing it at all?
You keep talking like all men are stronger than all women, that the weakest man is by default stronger than the strongest woman. While ON AVERAGE, men are stronger than women, there's plenty of overlap between them.
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Good read, thanks.
Doc Austin
Back From The Dead
There has to be some reason half of the drivers are not women. You tell me why there are not more. I think they just don't care, almost as if racing cars is a guy thing and >>>gasp<<< women are different from men.
I never said all.
I never said that either.
Everything has gotten so poisoned by political correctness that you have to break everything into single syllables so no one gets offended. People are so offended by inequality that they can't even admit something as undeniable as men and women are different. It's a pointless debate because when you tell people the undeniable truth they try to make you a misogynist or something, which I assure you I am not.
Men are stronger than women. It's science. Look it up. This doesn't apply to every single case because like everything else there will always be exceptions. It's a general statement. That's as clear as I know how to make it.
Charlie Spencer
Road courses and short tracks.
I can easily agree that fewer women than men are interested in racing, but that has nothing to do with physical strength.
Sure, women and men are different. None of those differences affect racing competitively, and there's no reason for F1 to establish a women-only series.
Sure, women and men are different. None of those differences affect racing competitively, and there's no reason for F1 to establish a women-only series.
StandOnIt
Farm Truck
F-1 is huge across the pond. If a women's series makes money so be it. They say they have the backing to take a chance on it. Might be the case, might not. I'm thinking cat fights might be a problem though
Doc Austin
Back From The Dead
Remember Dana White didn't think there was a reason to have women in the UFC, and now freely admits that wasn't his best decision.
I dunno. If the women got out there and raced the hell out of each other I'de probably watch it. Why not?
But, the one aspect of this we never talked about is who's going to pay for another series, especially with these $100 million monsters? That question kind of turns the whole thread on it's ear.
StandOnIt
Farm Truck
I don't think they have said what car they would be racing, the winner gets a test drive in F-1 I believe the article said
Doc Austin
Back From The Dead
As long as someone is willing to cut the check, why not? Might even be more fun than watching the men.
We also need a series for old, fat, slow guys. I dare say I would run quite well.
We also need a series for old, fat, slow guys. I dare say I would run quite well.