zero tolerance for cheaters

[StandOnIt]

Track official Ricky Brooks has zero tolerance for cheaters
Short-track and Trans Am Series official has disqualified the best of 'em


In his eyes, cars are either legal or they get disqualified—there is no middle ground.

Yet, racers continue to do what racers are prone to do. And they get no leniency from Brooks. He has received the majority of his national attention from disqualifying the flagged winner of the Snowball Derby four times in the past 11 years
Both Elliott and Bell were in the genesis of their respective careers when they ran afoul of Brooks, but 2007 was the first time the Room of Doom was introduced to a national audience. That was the season Brooks banned Kyle Busch and Steven Wallace from the weekend after both qualified their way into the 40th running of the event.

Each driver had made the show through time trials, but Busch was tossed for failing to meet the minimum height requirement for the event. For Wallace, his car was found to be underweight when crossing the scales, but, per standard procedure, Wallace was given two more attempts to make weight. He only made the predicament worse when, during his second attempt, he was found to have stuffed sockets in his pockets, leading to an immediate dismissal from the event.

“I was pissed because we gave him the benefit of the doubt,” Brooks said. “But that’s why we have to take these rules so seriously. If you don’t, there’s someone there to take advantage of them.”
Ironically, Busch told officials that he would never come back, but he did in 2009 and outright won the race. He passed tech, too. Wallace has been back several times since, as well. Driver grudges don’t seem to linger long against Brooks in the face of admitting that they failed for a reason.
http://autoweek.com/article/racing/track-official-ricky-brooks-has-zero-tolerance-cheaters

 

[JGR_20]

In my eyes... track official Ricky Brooks doesn't understand what racing was supposed to be...

You want the cars to be identical and all fit each other to a "t"?... then have the sanctioning body build all the cars and then create the process for teams/drivers to select one.

Otherwise let racing be racing.

 

[StandOnIt]

In my eyes... track official Ricky Brooks doesn't understand what racing was supposed to be...

You want the cars to be identical and all fit each other to a "t"?... then have the sanctioning body build all the cars and then create the process for teams/drivers to select one.

Otherwise let racing be racing.

If you have a problem with it..don't show up, go race illegal some where's else. Nascar apparently.

 

[JGR_20]

If you have a problem with it..don't show up, go race illegal some where's else. Nascar apparently.

I just feel like there should be rules in place, but there needs to be a little gray area for teams to play with here and there. Trying to make every violation such a huge deal just doesn't line up with what racing was supposed to be in the first place.

If the only concern is finding out who the best "driver" is, then go iroc style and pass the same car out to drivers... I like the idea that teams can "adjust" around the rule book and figure some things out which help them until the competition catches up again.

 

[StandOnIt]

there isn't any way to understand what you are saying it is so ambiguous "grey area" ?

 

[JGR_20]

there isn't any way to understand what you are saying it is so ambiguous "grey area" ?

Gray area is room for the teams to play obviously. I am not about to sit here for 48 hours straight on racing forums and type out a rundown of every part of a race car and the tolerance window I think should exists for it.

Disqualifying a winner 4 out of 11 times raises more of a red flag on the officiating than it does anything else in my eyes.

It sounds like they need to lighten up. Period.

You got my opinion in multiple replies. If you disagree fine... wait for the next reply to continue.

 

[StandOnIt]

so it's ok to have cars that are illegal..got it.

 

[Reck]

Otherwise let racing be racing.

That's achieved by bringing cars that meet the criteria and rules of that particular race sport.

You're making it sound like racing is based on teams cheating and not getting caught doing it.

Besides, in the case of Wallace, he was given mutiple chances to make his car weight more and he tried to pull a fast one and got tossed out.

What he did was plain cheating. No grey area in that.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

Gray area is room for the teams to play obviously. I am not about to sit here for 48 hours straight on racing forums and type out a rundown of every part of a race car and the tolerance window I think should exists for it.

Disqualifying a winner 4 out of 11 times raises more of a red flag on the officiating than it does anything else in my eyes.

It sounds like they need to lighten up. Period.

You got my opinion in multiple replies. If you disagree fine... wait for the next reply to continue.

Apparently these teams are venturing out of the gray area and into the clearly defined black.

 

[StandOnIt]

I know when Elliott got into trouble he was using tungsten (heavier per size and expensive as hell) for weight in his weight box, rules said lead.

Ironically, two years prior, it was Elliott that crossed the line first but was found to have an illegal piece of tungsten in his car. That gave fellow NASCAR youngster Erik Jones his second consecutive victory in the biggest short-track race of the year.

Despite running afoul of Brooks in the past, Elliott appreciates the meticulous nature of his process and hasn’t been deterred from competing in his events in recent years.

“He’s always been consistent, and I respect that,” Elliott said.

 

[StandOnIt]

IMO Nascar's inspection policies and procedures need to be using this model. People want the winner to win fair and square..as it is now, about half the time I'm thinking the winner won in a cheated up car.

 

[Skoalbandit33]

Time for Nascar to go full on IROC with 6 stages per race and lucky dogs every 10 laps. Everyone gets a participation ribbon and no one is scored off the lead lap.

 

[Zerkfitting]

cars are either legal or they get disqualified—there is no middle ground.

I like it. Rather than trying to see what they can get away with they can watch from the stands.

How many times does NASCAR allow a team to run their car through inspection?

 

[StandOnIt]

for sure they have plenty of chances..just like they do in the article..except after that if they get caught cheating, they are disqualified. so simple. 0 you get nothing.

 

[BOWTIE GUY]

there isn't any way to understand what you are saying it is so ambiguous "grey area" ?

if everyone has to be the same, what is the point of racing each other. the it comes down to human error who wins.

 

[Greg]

if everyone has to be the same, what is the point of racing each other. the it comes down to human error who wins.

So let the rich kid have his tungsten

 

[Team Penske]

In my eyes... track official Ricky Brooks doesn't understand what racing was supposed to be...

You want the cars to be identical and all fit each other to a "t"?... then have the sanctioning body build all the cars and then create the process for teams/drivers to select one.

Otherwise let racing be racing.

You can race anyway you want within the rules of the series. You don't like the rules....try another series.

 

[KTMLew01]

Define illegal.

 

[BOWTIE GUY]

I would think the rich kid didn't come up with ideal to use tungsten, more likely someone with years building cars.

 

[Team Penske]

if everyone has to be the same, what is the point of racing each other. the it comes down to human error who wins.

Why should a driver win just because he cheated? Racing is not the best cheated car, it is for me about what a driver can do with what he has. I suppose that is why I liked Dale E. He did more with less. That is racing, the skill of the driver.

 

[Greg]

4

I know when Elliott got into trouble he was using tungsten (heavier per size and expensive as hell) for weight in his weight box, rules said lead.

Ironically, two years prior, it was Elliott that crossed the line first but was found to have an illegal piece of tungsten in his car. That gave fellow NASCAR youngster Erik Jones his second consecutive victory in the biggest short-track race of the year.

Despite running afoul of Brooks in the past, Elliott appreciates the meticulous nature of his process and hasn’t been deterred from competing in his events in recent years.

“He’s always been consistent, and I respect that,” Elliott said.

The drivers entry form had the warning not to use Tungsten in bold print that year. I guess some folks (not you) think that Brooks should have told the others that followed the rules, that the bold print didn't mean anything. Cause if somebody has the money for the high tech illegal pieces, they deserve another break too.

Brooks and the Derby know what they are doing. And their running one the premier short track events in America. Even the ones previously busted have to respect them, and they draw a huge field of big names every year, wanting to earn a piece of the history.
Integrity is an essential part of the sucess. Holding everyone to the same standard is a good thing. Having a loosely regulated Tech sheet, will only guarantee making the rules as you go, and favoritism. That kind of subjectivity would make it unavoidable.

And I will congratulate anyone that can beat the tech line. Skillfully abusing the tolerances is part of the gig. But if you can't beat the tech man, you had best just try to run the best legitimate set up.

 

[BOWTIE GUY]

Why should a driver win just because he cheated? Racing is not the best cheated car, it is for me about what a driver can do with what he has. I suppose that is why I liked Dale E. He did more with less. That is racing, the skill of the driver.

if you can't out think out do the other teams and everyone has to be the same, why have race teams just have nascar build the cars and draw numbers for what car they drive and wave the green flag.

 

[kymartin6]

Why should a driver win just because he cheated? Racing is not the best cheated car, it is for me about what a driver can do with what he has. I suppose that is why I liked Dale E. He did more with less. That is racing, the skill of the driver.

All this talk about cheating...... When I read it all....... I think about Smokey...... and all the crew chiefs before and after him... the real thinkers....... guys who stayed awake at night studying to find a tiny niche that would give them a small advantage...... I never thought of them as cheaters..... I looked at them more as innovators.....

Nascar now has so many rules and regulations that the teams have to meet right down to the correct hardware that it IS ''cheating''...... I don't like that one bit. It hogties any tiny bit of innovation that might have been left..... I so much miss the times of the Grey areas..... where there wasn't a specific rule against it.......

 

[Team Penske]

if you can't out think out do the other teams and everyone has to be the same, why have race teams just have nascar build the cars and draw numbers for what car they drive and wave the green flag.

I remember that series and it still came down to the driver.
There is a huge amount the teams can do to cars with-in the rules
so the only reason to cheat up the car is to give a second rate driver an advantage. Denny needs a cheated car because when the chips are down he freezes. That's why he will never be a champion.

 

[Greg]

if you can't out think out do the other teams and everyone has to be the same, why have race teams just have nascar build the cars and draw numbers for what car they drive and wave the green flag.

There is still a ton of science involved with set ups,even if everyone is legal. And legal set ups are still unique to a drivers needs. Some of the best drivers can't just jump in another top car and make it work wih another top drivers set up, even when legal.

 

[kymartin6]

if you can't out think out do the other teams and everyone has to be the same, why have race teams just have nascar build the cars and draw numbers for what car they drive and wave the green flag.

My God!!!!!!!!!!! What a novel idea........


They are drawing very close to that.......

 

[DSquad48]

I say let John Force take his ride to Daytona. Slight modifications may be required, of course...

 

[bustedknee]

http://woodbrothersracing.com/classic-memories/back-seat-driving-was-a-glen-wood-specialty

....Back in the old Modified days, where rules were much more liberal than today, teams got more rear grip and thus more acceleration off the corners, by moving the engine rearward in the car. Glen Wood and his brother Leonard kept moving the engine back in their 1937 Ford until the driver was sitting in the back seat of the car....

....With Glen Wood driving, the back seat car was all but unbeatable on the short tracks around Virginia and North Carolina. It won eight in a row at Starkey Speedway near Roanoke, countless features and a championship at Bowman Gray and a big Modified race at Martinsville Speedway, where the Sprint Cup Series will be racing this weekend....

Those in favor of making all the cars identical - - raise your hand. The rest of us will find something else to do on Sunday.

 

[LewTheShoe]

Those in favor of making all the cars identical - - raise your hand. The rest of us will find something else to do on Sunday.

Run what ya brung? Heck yeah, I'm all in. There probably aren't enough engineers in the Southeast, and certainly not enough gold in Fort Knox, but it would be fun while it lasted. Here's my car for Sonoma and Watkins Glen. It's an evolution of the Toyotas that Gibbs and Visser have been running, with a few tweaks for the new "run what ya brung" hoedown.

 

[StandOnIt]

I'll take the infield

 

[ladyspartan16]

In my eyes... track official Ricky Brooks doesn't understand what racing was supposed to be...

You want the cars to be identical and all fit each other to a "t"?... then have the sanctioning body build all the cars and then create the process for teams/drivers to select one.

Otherwise let racing be racing.

This.

If you want to curb cheating then make all cars cookie cutter copies or start snatching wins.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

if you can't out think out do the other teams and everyone has to be the same, why have race teams just have nascar build the cars and draw numbers for what car they drive and wave the green flag.

I'm not sure why you keep saying the cars all have to be the same. I haven't seen the rules for this event (have you?), but I'm guessing there's plenty of wiggle room and gray area before stepping over the line.

 

[Hotrod]

Boy Jim & Choc hammered on the Hamlin encumbered win penalty
hard this week. They were really mad and I was glad to see it.
They pointed out what I couldn't figure what was making me so mad.
The fact that a "A" level driver is put in an illegal car to beat up a lower level
is so horrible that it really borderlines on unforgivable. Despicable.

 

[R Clarence]

Banishment of all things JGR is the only answer.

 

[Johali]

Banishment of all things JGR is the only answer.

 

[StandOnIt]

Boy Jim & Choc hammered on the Hamlin encumbered win penalty
hard this week. They were really mad and I was glad to see it.
They pointed out what I couldn't figure what was making me so mad.
The fact that a "A" level driver is put in an illegal car to beat up a lower level
is so horrible that it really borderlines on unforgivable. Despicable.

I thought Choc was a Nascar cool aid drinker? Why they need to get Simple fan on there to sub for Choc and Jim

 

[Hotrod]

I thought Choc was a Nascar cool aid drinker? Why they need to get Simple fan on there to sub for Choc and Jim

Nope, not on this one. This was a definitive tipping point for them on this cheating incident.
Larry Mac is also at the "Enough is Enough" stage of cuppers buschwacking.

 

[StandOnIt]

Nope, not on this one. This was a definitive tipping point for them on this cheating incident.
Larry Mac is also at the "Enough is Enough" stage of cuppers buschwacking.

something is going to happen, I bet off season...probably will not be enough like it is now, but I bet something happens with this miss matching.

 

[Reck]

Boy Jim & Choc hammered on the Hamlin encumbered win penalty
hard this week. They were really mad and I was glad to see it.
They pointed out what I couldn't figure what was making me so mad.
The fact that a "A" level driver is put in an illegal car to beat up a lower level
is so horrible that it really borderlines on unforgivable. Despicable.

Wow, was not aware of that.

I dont watch the lower series nowaways. But I am glad NASCAR has taken to "stripping" wins and not making them count for the chase. But in this case, is such a moot point I have a hard time wrapping my head around what this even means. Stupid.

As for the car being illegal to begin with, I think for at least the Xfinity series, this is entirely on the team down there. I doubt Hamlin knew he was on a cheated up car on a lower series no less.

The mere thought would make me puke if I was him. (If he knew)

 

[StandOnIt]

it wasn't a couple of weeks ago that Nascar threatened to take away tire sets for teams who continue to fail inspections. The was in addition to them taking away practice time, pit choices and making teams start in the rear. It is something they need to get a handle on IMO.