Enough Is Enough Full Season Championship.

Speedbowl14 said:
This past weekend's fan favorite underdog locking himself into the Playoffs with a clutch win at a crown jewel event probably just bought us another year of unchanged Playoffs. I would be totally happy with Bubba winning at Indy breaking a 100-race winless streak. That is a a compelling story by itself. But even I must admit, the Playoff element this late in the season certainly adds intrigue. There is likely a TV suit saying this exact quote to a NASCAR exec this week- "If it were a 36 race season, Bubba's win would be old news by next week, and there would be no more storylines, and he'd fade back into mid-pack obscurity for the rest of the season."
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but you'd still have a Four Way title fight at the top of the standings. If that doesnt get someone's attention, they're beyond helping.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
but you'd still have a Four Way title fight at the top of the standings. If that doesnt get someone's attention, they're beyond helping.
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You already know. The gerbils will spend endless race filler talking about Bubba this and Bubba that cut line B.S.. Meanwhile there is a race going on.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
but you'd still have a Four Way title fight at the top of the standings. If that doesnt get someone's attention, they're beyond helping.
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Disagree with that. How can you say there would be a four way fight at the top when the rules they would be racing by would be completely different.
This is my story and I am sticking to it. You can't compare two completely different formats that dictate how teams race. For all we know, Penske can be laying back again, just waiting to make the effort for a 4th consecutive championship. Where as, if the rules were old school, maybe a Penske drivers would be 200 points in the lead at this stage. Geesh...
 
DIDIT said:
Disagree with that. How can you say there would be a four way fight at the top when the rules they would be racing by would be completely different.
This is my story and I am sticking to it. You can't compare two completely different formats that dictate how teams race. For all we know, Penske can be laying back again, just waiting to make the effort for a 4th consecutive championship. Where as, if the rules were old school, maybe a Penske drivers would be 200 points in the lead at this stage. Geesh...
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How do you know they're laying back? This works both ways. The regular season in this format shows us we are having quite the battle at the top of the standings right now. If it was a regular season format, if they'd have a 200 point lead I'd say they earned it.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
How do you know they're laying back? This works both ways. The regular season in this format shows us we are having quite the battle at the top of the standings right now. If it was a regular season format, if they'd have a 200 point lead I'd say they earned it.
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Good question, I don't know, no one knows and that is exactly my point.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Bubba has only slightly more chances of reaching the second round than I do.
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And that’s the problem I have with this format. One of them. Bubba’s win is great, I cheered it’s fun. But let’s not make it out that he’s a title contender, he’s got speed but we’ve watched the races THIS year. What about it makes him a threat to win it all…it’s nothing. Hes not a contender but we have to pretend he is because it’s a dog and pony show system, an exercise in ultimately a waste of time. Bubba’s win wouldn’t have been diminished in any format, he won a crown jewel race! A career achievement ! That story would not have been forgotten
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
And that’s the problem I have with this format. One of them. Bubba’s win is great, I cheered it’s fun. But let’s not make it out that he’s a title contender, he’s got speed but we’ve watched the races THIS year. What about it makes him a threat to win it all…it’s nothing. Hes not a contender but we have to pretend he is because it’s a dog and pony show system, an exercise in ultimately a waste of time. Bubba’s win wouldn’t have been diminished in any format, he won a crown jewel race! A career achievement ! That story would not have been forgotten
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Like I point out regularly, this system does a pretty good job of rewarding season long consistency with playoff points. If you enter without a lot of them (as Bubba will), you need Joey Logano-esque levels of clutch to win your way through to the Champ 4.

Logano’s run last year is an extreme outlier.
 
I'm still waiting for an explanation of why the championship four are always running together up front at Phoenix. Funny, the drivers in the round of 8 aren't found running side by side all together in the top ten for three races.

If nothing else looks fishy about the final race, that alone would fill another Finding Nemo movie.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'm still waiting for an explanation of why the championship four are always running together up front at Phoenix. Funny, the drivers in the round of 8 aren't found running side by side all together in the top ten for three races.

If nothing else looks fishy about the final race, that alone would fill another Finding Nemo movie.
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In my perfect world it would be the exact opposite with all four Championship drivers having wrecked out of the race and sitting in the garage drinking beers with their crew.
 
pjmolo said:
In my perfect world it would be the exact opposite with all four Championship drivers having wrecked out of the race and sitting in the garage drinking beers with their crew.
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“Ryan Blaney wins the Championship solely because he was the first one towed past the scoring loop!” Man I want that to happen so bad. To me it seems like the only way we get change is something that clownish happening.
 
Naitch said:
But knowing the NASCAR fanbase, the bitching will start as soon as we have a runaway champion, just like people bitched in 2003.
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Are the IndyCar fans complaining because Alex Palou is winning nearly every race and will have the title wrapped up with a couple of races still to go?
 
Naitch said:
Like I point out regularly, this system does a pretty good job of rewarding season long consistency with playoff points. If you enter without a lot of them (as Bubba will), you need Joey Logano-esque levels of clutch to win your way through to the Champ 4.

Logano’s run last year is an extreme outlier.
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And Blaney's the year before that with 8 top 5's all year wasn't?? Byron, Larson and Hamlin had 15 and 14 top 5's, Byron with 6 wins and 21 top 10's to Blaney's 3 wins and 18 top 10's. Consistency wasn't rewarded and yet another case of win the circus win the prize and pee on my leg and tell me it is raining.
 
MRM said:
Are the IndyCar fans complaining because Alex Palou is winning nearly every race and will have the title wrapped up with a couple of races still to go?
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I have never known IndyCar’s fan base to be as negative as NASCAR’s.
 
StandOnIt said:
And Blaney's the year before that with 8 top 5's all year wasn't?? Byron, Larson and Hamlin had 15 and 14 top 5's, Byron with 6 wins and 21 top 10's to Blaney's 3 wins and 18 top 10's. Consistency wasn't rewarded and yet another case of win the circus win the prize and pee on my leg and tell me it is raining.
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Blaney would have finished 6th in a full season format and I think that was the worst until Logano a year later. 6th is high enough, especially in today’s NASCAR, to be considered one of the best.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
This past weekend's fan favorite underdog locking himself into the Playoffs with a clutch win at a crown jewel event probably just bought us another year of unchanged Playoffs. I would be totally happy with Bubba winning at Indy breaking a 100-race winless streak. That is a a compelling story by itself. But even I must admit, the Playoff element this late in the season certainly adds intrigue. There is likely a TV suit saying this exact quote to a NASCAR exec this week- "If it were a 36 race season, Bubba's win would be old news by next week, and there would be no more storylines, and he'd fade back into mid-pack obscurity for the rest of the season."
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100-race winless streak, Crown Jewel event, and the ongoing charter drama. That win had a lot of layers to beyond the playoff implications.

I think a format that is overly concerned with what happens on the fringes isn’t a good one anyways. You don’t hear much of anything about the battle among the top 4 for the regular season title because it means relatively less. Not that it doesn’t mean anything, since more playoff points are at stake, but it just means less. A lot of the team business model is now predicated upon just making the playoffs.

The Chase did a much, much better job of turning the attention to those two or three drivers who separated themselves from the pack over the course of the final ten races. And why wouldn’t you want the story to be about the best of the best? Revert back to a Chase-style format with bigger bonuses for regular season performance and you probably have a really good middle ground.
 
Statistically, Nascar should have had Chastain in the final four for 2023. :sarcasm:

NASCAR Season Final Winner
As of the 2024 season, every NASCAR Cup Series champion has won the final race of the season since the introduction of the Championship 4 format in 2014. This trend includes notable drivers such as Joey Logano, Kyle Larson, Chase Elliott, and others.
Additionally, there have been instances prior to the 2014 format where the champion also won the final race, with some of these occurrences dating back to the 1950s.
2024: Joey Logano: Joey Logano won the final race of the 2024 season, securing his championship.
2022: Joey Logano: Joey Logano also won the final race of the 2022 season, contributing to his championship.
2021: Kyle Larson: Kyle Larson won the final race of the 2021 season, which helped him clinch the title.
2020: Chase Elliott: Chase Elliott won the final race of the 2020 season, securing his championship.
2019: Kyle Busch: Kyle Busch won the final race of the 2019 season, which contributed to his championship.
2018: Joey Logano: Joey Logano won the final race of the 2018 season, helping him win the title.
2017: Martin Truex Jr.: Martin Truex Jr. won the final race of the 2017 season, securing his championship.
2016: Jimmie Johnson: Jimmie Johnson won the final race of the 2016 season, contributing to his championship.
2015: Kyle Busch: Kyle Busch won the final race of the 2015 season, which helped him win the title.
2014: Kevin Harvick: Kevin Harvick won the final race of the 2014 season, securing his championship.
 
FLRacingFan said:
100-race winless streak, Crown Jewel event, and the ongoing charter drama. That win had a lot of layers to beyond the playoff implications.

I think a format that is overly concerned with what happens on the fringes isn’t a good one anyways. You don’t hear much of anything about the battle among the top 4 for the regular season title because it means relatively less. Not that it doesn’t mean anything, since more playoff points are at stake, but it just means less. A lot of the team business model is now predicated upon just making the playoffs.

The Chase did a much, much better job of turning the attention to those two or three drivers who separated themselves from the pack over the course of the final ten races. And why wouldn’t you want the story to be about the best of the best? Revert back to a Chase-style format with bigger bonuses for regular season performance and you probably have a really good middle ground.
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The chase format is the least popular form compared to the full season format with people voting for that compared to the voting for a full season 36 race format. I think it was around 80%/20%. It's just another form of stick n ball type with less nonsense than the one they have now.
 
MRM said:
Are the IndyCar fans complaining because Alex Palou is winning nearly every race and will have the title wrapped up with a couple of races still to go?
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This fan isn't. Sure, some are griping, the same way they griped when Gordon racked up ten wins in a season, or when Johnson was notching titles in his horseshoe. Let 'em; the rest of us can appreciate that we're watching a once-in-a-generation talent.
 
rd45usa said:
Statistically, Nascar should have had Chastain in the final four for 2023. :sarcasm:

NASCAR Season Final Winner
As of the 2024 season, every NASCAR Cup Series champion has won the final race of the season since the introduction of the Championship 4 format in 2014. This trend includes notable
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well except for 2023...
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Another aspect of the final race that doesn't pass the smell test.
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I've been told many times that it's a well known fact in the NASCAR garage that the Final Four drivers get more leeway in that race.

As someone who'd rather see just the championship contenders racing each other, I'm fine with that.
 
HoneyBadger said:
I've been told many times that it's a well known fact in the NASCAR garage that the Final Four drivers get more leeway in that race.

As someone who'd rather see just the championship contenders racing each other, I'm fine with that.
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Because this is the only sport where people that are going for the championship on are on the same playing field as people that are not
 
wi_racefan said:
Because this is the only sport where people that are going for the championship on are on the same playing field as people that are not
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Just think how ridiculous that is. The jackpot race for a whole season, doesn't matter how many wins, top 5's or 10's you have. This is the way to crown a champion? After all of the fudging of the points, resets, additional playoff fudge points to compensate for bad finishes, Manufacturers/teams cheating and throwing races, gerbils screaming cut line, cut line...like really? It's why I turn the sound down, it's too much to stomach.
 
HoneyBadger said:
I've been told many times that it's a well known fact in the NASCAR garage that the Final Four drivers get more leeway in that race.

As someone who'd rather see just the championship contenders racing each other, I'm fine with that.
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wi_racefan said:
Because this is the only sport where people that are going for the championship on are on the same playing field as people that are not
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I'm almost okay with it if that's actually the reason. But state explicitly that those guys are being inspected using different standards than the rest of the field, and publish how those standards differ from what's been used for everyone for the last 35 races. Don't lie to us by omission, leaving us to think everyone is being measured with the same stick.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'm almost okay with it if that's actually the reason. But state explicitly that those guys are being inspected using different standards than the rest of the field, and publish how those standards differ from what's been used for everyone for the last 35 races. Don't lie to us by omission, leaving us to think everyone is being measured with the same stick.
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Why in the hell would they do that and ruin their charade?
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Run the race under IMSA sanctioning. They're used to officiating multi-class racing.
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Jim France runs IMSA lol. Yeah sure. NBC doesn't have the Daytona 500 so the playoffs are their bright idea, their show. They have paid influencers on social media hyping how much better they are then everybody else to this day when we know that is B.S.. You think they want to change anything? I bet they don't like the publicity they are getting now. Fans are tired of the B.S.. Hard core people who stick out the season want to see a fairer not made for TV contest to crown a Cup champion. One more fudging up with the 4 cars isn't going to make a difference right? We have multiple resets as it is. crown two champions a year etc. What's 4 rigged up cars?
 
HoneyBadger said:
I've been told many times that it's a well known fact in the NASCAR garage that the Final Four drivers get more leeway in that race.

As someone who'd rather see just the championship contenders racing each other, I'm fine with that.
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And that gives justification to the playoffs, that the rightful four are in the championship race. A big plus for Nascar.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Sidebar - I must be the only person on the Internet that isn't following a for-profit 'influencer'. I don't think I'd know where to start.
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All you have to do is click on their name and read their thread comments. Other ways are seeing how many followers they have and what they wrote on their profile.
 
StandOnIt said:
The chase format is the least popular form compared to the full season format with people voting for that compared to the voting for a full season 36 race format. I think it was around 80%/20%. It's just another form of stick n ball type with less nonsense than the one they have now.
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From the poll Gluck did earlier this summer it was about half as favored as a full season championship, but three or four magnitudes more popular than the current elimination format. If TV refuses to budge on having some form of playoff, it would be a decent compromise - so long as they modify it to include a greater bonus for regular season performance at the reset.
 
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