23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

Charlie Spencer said:
I haven't read Prime's terms and conditions but I'll bet a big chunk that you don't 'buy' movies. You pay for the access to view them, revocable at any time with no notice. As a former network admin, I've read many others. Almost all of them guarantee you nothing in exchange for your money.

If you don't have the physical media, you haven't 'bought' anything
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Which again, you're don't buy the charter, you pay to use it. So yeah same thing.
 
rd45usa said:
Your right about Nascar gets the money from TV networks. Nascar then holds the money over the teams head and says if you want a bigger piece of the pie, you have to sign the charter. At anytime we see fit to change anything in the charters, we can do it, and you can't sue us for making changes. And if we see fit to cancel the charters before the TV Network contract is up, we can do that and you can't sue us for that.
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You don't have proof of anything like that happening but your vivid imagination.
 
StandOnIt said:
You want to make sh*t up and think your credible that is your choice. Like they say, throw sh*t at the wall and see what sticks. Lot of that going on these days.
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Thank you for attacking me because I think different than you, again thank you!
 
aunty dive said:
NASCAR can veto the transfer of a charter if they choose to do so.
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Yes, because they are the OWNERS of the charter contracts and have that capability. What happens if the courts go overboard in their “jurisprudence” and award these charters to become property of the teams? How can NASCAR then govern the rules, requirements and terms of these contracts when the teams “own” their positioning within the organization? That would become “PHASE 2” of the takeover, again via lawsuits, to wrest control away from the very body that built the sport, the racing platform, from the ground up. Don’t say “that would never happen”…cause this is how these things blow up good situations.

NOW, I say once again, if ultimately the overreaching courts decide, after all is said and adjudicated up to the highest court if necessary, that charters must become owned property of the teams, then that same overbearing court must also provide NASCAR with the proper means to collect payment for those charters being sold to all these teams. That is the ONLY FAIR way to jerk such equity away from the owner of that valuable entity…otherwise might as well be a new form of eco-Marxism. How much should NASCAR get for each Charter? Market value, averaged over the last several years, would be proper. That should make a conservative value set at $30M per charter….sounds good. And no bitchin’ from teams that “already paid” for theirs previously…those were merely rentals. TDB. Pay up Hamcrap, Jordan, Jenkins. Pay up Hendrick, Gibbs, etc. Those who signed their contracts can thank MJ for spreading the virus on this sport.
 
Conover said:
Yes, because they are the OWNERS of the charter contracts and have that capability. What happens if the courts go overboard in their “jurisprudence” and award these charters to become property of the teams? How can NASCAR then govern the rules, requirements and terms of these contracts when the teams “own” their positioning within the organization? That would become “PHASE 2” of the takeover, again via lawsuits, to wrest control away from the very body that built the sport, the racing platform, from the ground up. Don’t say “that would never happen”…cause this is how these things blow up good situations.

NOW, I say once again, if ultimately the overreaching courts decide, after all is said and adjudicated up to the highest court if necessary, that charters must become owned property of the teams, then that same overbearing court must also provide NASCAR with the proper means to collect payment for those charters being sold to all these teams. That is the ONLY FAIR way to jerk such equity away from the owner of that valuable entity…otherwise might as well be a new form of eco-Marxism. How much should NASCAR get for each Charter? Market value, averaged over the last several years, would be proper. That should make a conservative value set at $30M per charter….sounds good. And no bitchin’ from teams that “already paid” for theirs previously…those were merely rentals. TDB. Pay up Hamcrap, Jordan, Jenkins. Pay up Hendrick, Gibbs, etc. Those who signed their contracts can thank MJ for spreading the virus on this sport.
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I think that ship has sailed, and they just missed the boat. If they learned anything, it would be to collect a handsome fee at the creation of any new charters.

The following is just a rant....

Maybe if they hadn't been so caught up in screwing up the tee shirt vendors, they could have focused on some bigger money like collecting a substantial initial charter fee.
I am not aware of any sporting league that would have missed out on such a golden goose egg.

If Nascar wants to live or die as the all wise dictator with their guarded closed books, they shouldn't have a complaint over any self inclicted wounds or rarely missed opportunities.
 
Conover said:
How can NASCAR then govern the rules, requirements and terms of these contracts when the teams “own” their positioning within the organization?
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Same way other leagues approve ownership sales without being the actual owner. "Here's a charter, it's yours but in the fine print it says we get to approve any sales."

Also, charge a transfer fee or a percentage of the sale, something NASCAR should have been doing all along.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Same way other leagues approve ownership sales without being the actual owner. "Here's a charter, it's yours but in the fine print it says we get to approve any sales."

Also, charge a transfer fee or a percentage of the sale, something NASCAR should have been doing all along.
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To simple for him or NASCAR to understand.
 
KTMLew01 said:
What I'm asking, were any cars guaranteed a starting spot? Did the teams get ANY cut of the TV revenue? Did anybody ever find Waldo?
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Teams were guaranteed starting spots based on owner points. The top 35 were in. At one time, one spot was reserved for a previous champion.

I can't answer regarding TV money, other than before 2000, each track negotiated its own TV coverage.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Teams were guaranteed starting spots based on owner points. The top 35 were in. At one time, one spot was reserved for a previous champion.

I can't answer regarding TV money, other than before 2000, each track negotiated its own TV coverage.
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Thank you. If I post this type of stuff tends to get rebuked immediately. I new about the owner points/starting spots but forgot about the tracks negotiating for themselves. Unfortunately now Nascar owns almost all the tracks. There's a term for what I'm thinking about. Something about "go to jail" and "in jail/just visiting"...
 
AlTerego said:
I thought we’d be at 100 pages by now but I’m confident it will still happen.
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Things slowed down a few months ago and I wouldn't have made it without the support of my family and a good therapist.

The pace has recently improved and I can feel it, we are on the verge of greatness.
 
I wonder what happens if 23xi looses their charter and goes away. Would Toyota be more interested in upgrading Legacy to the de facto 2nd string or B team or enticing another really good team to switch brands.

I started to ask the question in the silly season thread, but I thought it was a better fit on this one.
 
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StandOnIt said:
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Regardless of which way the Judge sees things to this point, I think he's suggesting (heavily) they hash things out (by next week), at least that way the outcome is one they both agree to. My gut says that the Judge (at this point) sees an ultimate resolution that neither side would be happy with. A pick your poison situation.
 
Hawaii808 said:
Regardless of which way the Judge sees things to this point, I think he's suggesting (heavily) they hash things out (by next week), at least that way the outcome is one they both agree to. My gut says that the Judge (at this point) sees an ultimate resolution that neither side would be happy with. A pick your poison situation.
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Reading the above post, these people do not like each other. The two lawyers from the sides don't like each other. This isn't court room theatrics, they REALLY don't like each other.
Michael Jordan says he is in it for the good of the sport...really? Looks like they are trying to do what I said they were doing and trying to start an alternate series, hence the monopoly nonsense.
 
Jordan et al tried, is trying, to get Gibbs involved, tried to get Marcus Smith with his tracks to go along, trying to get rights to the car (intellectual property).
 
What's all this I'm hearing about troubles with French families? The French have stood by America since before our revolution. They sold us the Louisiana territory, doubling the size of our young country. They gave us the Statue of Liberty. We had their backs in the world wars. We love their cooking, especially their fries. Each country is a popular travel destination for the other's citizens.

Excuse me? 'France family', not 'French families'?

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Charlie Spencer said:
What's all this I'm hearing about troubles with French families? The French have stood by America since before our revolution. They sold us the Louisiana territory, doubling the size of our young country. They gave us the Statue of Liberty. We had their backs in the world wars. We love their cooking, especially their fries. Each country is a popular travel destination for the other's citizens.

Excuse me? 'France family', not 'French families'?

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As long as you don’t call Canada Geese Canadian geese we can remain friends! It drives me bonkers or would that be honkers?
 
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