23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

[kkfan91]

This case is fundamentally about greed, and revenge. To see the arguments otherwise is pure and unadulterated ignorance from people who have a bone to pick with NASCAR about their incorrect preconceived notions of what it should be.

Looking at all the evidence clearly paints that picture. This case is a farce and unfortunately for NASCAR too many "fans" and industry people are short sighted and stupid. I love this sport and I'm not going to sit by while people constantly take shots at it that are unwarranted and wrong. NASCAR isn't broken. But the people who claim they like it sure are.

 

[wi_racefan]

Sounds like MJ was really hung up on with wanting a percentage of overall all nascar income. That way if NASCAR got more teams got more.

 

[StandOnIt]

"Greed" keeps coming up. It's quite a preoccupation for some. Strangely, the greedy ones are everyone lower on NASCAR'S food chain than the very top. The only ones who aren't greedy are the heirs who own it and their top executives.

When Kyle Larson was asked if he foresees similar legal challenges happening to his High Limit sprint car series and their somewhat similar franchise system, he states that he doesn't, because he and his co-owners "have been way more transparent than NASCAR" and "have the best interest of sprint car racing in mind, not our pockets".

Another greedy one.

Larson can't imagine the overhead that Nascar has compared to his High Limit series. Brad Sweet might be getting a taste since he bought one track and is half owner in the series.

 

[StandOnIt]

Sounds like MJ was really hung up on with wanting a percentage of overall all nascar income. That way if NASCAR got more teams got more.

Jordan wants his lawyers with their noses and anything else they can get smack into Nascar's books. Jordan hasn't even read the Charter agreement. 23XI is getting run by lawyers and Hamlin. Jordan shows up at races sometimes.

 

[wi_racefan]

Jordan wants his lawyers with their noses and anything else they can get smack into Nascar's books. Jordan hasn't even read the Charter agreement. 23XI is getting run by lawyers and Hamlin. Jordan shows up at races sometimes.

In all fairness I dont think many of the owners have read the total agreement. That's why they have lawyers

 

[StandOnIt]

Good listen. They did some for both sides.

 

[Naitch]

Jordan wants his lawyers with their noses and anything else they can get smack into Nascar's books. Jordan hasn't even read the Charter agreement. 23XI is getting run by lawyers and Hamlin. Jordan shows up at races sometimes.

If Dennis is running 23XI then they’re in trouble because everything I have seen from him tells me that he is a grade A moron.

NASCAR is a monopoly and likely even an illegal one but the remedy for fixing that could give us our own version of the CART/IRL split.

Is the juice worth the squeeze? Dennis might have jumped in without pondering that. This isn’t a move you make without the power brokers in NASCAR officially backing you. When the owners all signed the Charter Agreement, it was over.

 

[Blaze]

Dude literally sucking up to MJ saying "I played JV"

Also put that damn sign down, if you actually cared about the sport as a fan you'd know rooting against them will kill it.

Wanting change is wanting the sport killed? Wanting things to be better is wanting the sport killed? Don't dare speak against NASCAR! They do no wrong! PERFECT THEY ARE!

 

[StandOnIt]

If Dennis is running 23XI then they’re in trouble because everything I have seen from him tells me that he is a grade A moron.

NASCAR is a monopoly and likely even an illegal one but the remedy for fixing that could give us our own version of the CART/IRL split.

Is the juice worth the squeeze? Dennis might have jumped in without pondering that. This isn’t a move you make without the power brokers in NASCAR officially backing you. When the owners all signed the Charter Agreement, it was over.

Yep. Worst case and the wheels fall off, I can't see the owners going with Jordan and Hamlin. They already tried to get everybody to leave and it failed miserably.

 

[Naitch]

Not a good night for Dennis

 

[Revman]

Jordan wants his lawyers with their noses and anything else they can get smack into Nascar's books. Jordan hasn't even read the Charter agreement. 23XI is getting run by lawyers and Hamlin. Jordan shows up at races sometimes.

Of course. MJ has amassed his fortune by forking out money to high school graduates. Makes all the sense in the world. Here's the deal, MJ has Polk. He doesn't need to be there. The problem we have is that the owners have had there rich noses so far up France's ass that they haven't been able to challenge the bull****. What is scary about MJ and his team is that they don't give a ****. They would rather burn down this diseased model than continue on this path. MJ is an outsider. Had the insiders had coconuts, maybe he isn't as relevant as he is. Heather Gibbs testimony is telling. This could very well end up like Indy Car....and if it does, then I guess the Felon provides engines to everybody, and you get your spec series. Honestly, I think WE prefer the IMSA model (where the GR GT beast will be) over the NASCAR model anyway. There is a reason why NASCAR can't attract new OEMs. I think we are starting to understand why.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

I think WE prefer the IMSA model (where the GR GT beast will be)

Seriously? I hadn't heard that. Manufacturers are flocking to IMSA and WEC.

 

[wi_racefan]

Of course. MJ has amassed his fortune by forking out money to high school graduates. Makes all the sense in the world. Here's the deal, MJ has Polk. He doesn't need to be there. The problem we have is that the owners have had there rich noses so far up France's ass that they haven't been able to challenge the bull****. What is scary about MJ and his team is that they don't give a ****. They would rather burn down this diseased model than continue on this path. MJ is an outsider. Had the insiders had coconuts, maybe he isn't as relevant as he is. Heather Gibbs testimony is telling. This could very well end up like Indy Car....and if it does, then I guess the Felon provides engines to everybody, and you get your spec series. Honestly, I think WE prefer the IMSA model (where the GR GT beast will be) over the NASCAR model anyway. There is a reason why NASCAR can't attract new OEMs. I think we are starting to understand why.

Your argument shows your bias terrible. This lawsuit has nothing to do with any manufacturer and really nothing to do with Rick. Like I said before if Rick had brought the exact same lawsuit you'd be on the other side

 

[wi_racefan]

This lawsuit reminds me a lot of what work is like for me. A group of us worked for a former employer and were sick of how it was run. A few quit and started another business and offered some of us jobs. The new company had no money so to raise funds they sold shares to the initial group of employees. So myself included along with several other people quit our well paying jobs and wrote rather sizeable checks to a new company that didnt really exist besides a name at the time. The first years were brutal getting things going.

Now several years down the road we're doing very well. Some of the new employees got upset when they found out that the shareholders get larger year end bonuses than non-shareholders.

To me this is just like what's going on now. The France family risked everything and did all the work to build it to what it is now and the new guy wants the same reward. Let's not forget the France family put 75 years into this baby.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

Let's not forget the France family put 75 years into this baby.

No one is debating that. The question is whether everything they did over the last several years was legal.

 

[AlTerego]

Not a good night for Dennis

I’m still crying tears of joy at the Hoosiers victory!

 

[Revman]

The France family risked everything and did all the work

Curious. How many Frances hit 230 on corner entry? I'll wait right here.

 

[Revman]

This lawsuit has nothing to do with any manufacturer

bull****. If the teams can't pay, and/or the manufacturers can't get a return on investment, they are out....and then you got yourself a stock spec series. Have fun.

 

[Revman]

I’m still crying tears of joy at the Hoosiers victory!

You are clear that this is just Denny kind of trolling college football fans, right? He really doesn't care. You know this, right?

 

[Revman]

Your argument shows your bias terrible.

No way! Really?

 

[StandOnIt]

Your argument shows your bias terrible. This lawsuit has nothing to do with any manufacturer and really nothing to do with Rick. Like I said before if Rick had brought the exact same lawsuit you'd be on the other side

Buddy. somebody so ate up and divorced from reality there is little hope of any sort of balanced perspectives.

 

[Hawaii808]

No way! Really?

FWIW we’ve all shown some bias in this discussion. And that’s cool, differing points of view help us update and refine our own bias.

 

[rd45usa]

 

[wi_racefan]

Curious. How many Frances hit 230 on corner entry? I'll wait right here.

How many race car drivers built race tracks, negotiate billion dollar tv deals and spent 75 building the premiere stock car series with their own money?

 

[RFChildress]

That's unfortunate that one of the almighty Steve's rings was not kissed and subsequently almost got ejected from his own business meeting. Can you imagine? Getting tossed out of your own meet? The humiliation. O'Donnell has shown nothing but the highest of highest's respects thru text to all owner's of nascar all the way to the fans core base, in fast becoming the "nascarGodfather"/commissioner, he has done great things and accomplishments abound a tough negotiator, he commands the room and the respects, nobody talks to OD Steve that way! but if you do, let me know ahead of time so I can be there to see it.

 

[virtualbalboa]

How many race car drivers built race tracks, negotiate billion dollar tv deals and spent 75 building the premiere stock car series with their own money?

None of the current France family did any of this. They didn't build the tracks: their parents had. Same with building it with their own money (which also LOL at that being true in general either; are we really playing that card?). They hired people to negotiate the TV deals for them.

 

[StandOnIt]

None of the current France family did any of this. They didn't build the tracks: their parents had. Same with building it with their own money (which also LOL at that being true in general either; are we really playing that card?). They hired people to negotiate the TV deals for them.

So Jim France just sat on his hands right? I'll guess you will say Penske didn't do anything next.

 

[virtualbalboa]

So Jim France just sat on his hands right?

When Talladega was being built, Jim France was in college. He personally had nothing to do with that or anything else that Bill Sr. or Jr. did.

I'll guess you will say Penske didn't do anything next.

I was unaware that Roger Penske was a member of the France family. Source?

 

[StandOnIt]

When Talladega was being built, Jim France was in college. He personally had nothing to do with that or anything else that Bill Sr. or Jr. did.



I was unaware that Roger Penske was a member of the France family. Source?

Your big balls in cowtown shtick continues to fall short of the target. Jim France started working for Nascar in 1959 as a teenager. Recently France was in charge of the 400 million renovation of Daytona speedway. Penske took a superfund site. converted it into California speedway who Penske in turn sold it to the Frances.

 

[wi_racefan]

So far the only thing I've seen that may be deemed illegal or uncompetive was the exclusivity deals signed a with SMI. Everything else appears to be a contract dispute. They said stuff about SRX but in reality they did nothing to harm them besides enforcement of exclusivity on the SMI tracks.

 

[Revman]

How many race car drivers built race tracks, negotiate billion dollar tv deals and spent 75 building the premiere stock car series with their own money?

None, but all of them risked their lives for those who did. Should count for something, right?

 

[wi_racefan]

None, but all of them risked their lives for those who did. Should count for something, right?

Which they've done willingly and have been well compensated for.

 

[virtualbalboa]

Your big balls in cowtown shtick continues to fall short of the target. Jim France started working for Nascar in 1959 as a teenager.

Jim France helping collect tickets in 1959 means he actually built all the things his daddy did: Alright.

Recently France was in charge of the 400 million renovation of Daytona speedway.

"Owner of business makes improvements to business for serving customers". Wow. Never thought about it that way.

Penske took a superfund site. converted it into California speedway who Penske in turn sold it to the Frances.

Oh, so by purchasing something from someone else, you get to claim all the labor and risk involved with the construction of that thing. That's interesting. Good to know I built the house I'm in right now in spite of it being 20 years older than me.

 

[virtualbalboa]

Which they've done willingly and have been well compensated for.

Is that why NASCAR is being sued?

 

[StandOnIt]

None, but all of them risked their lives for those who did. Should count for something, right?

Sure it does, but like Kenny Schrader says. Drivers think they have a say in how things go in the sport. But they could get rid of all the drivers and in a short time they would have 32 drivers more. Car owners are a different story.

 

[virtualbalboa]

Sure it does, but like Kenny Schrader says. Drivers think they have a say in how things go in the sport. But they could get rid on the drivers and in a short time they would have 32 drivers more. Car owners are a different story.

I appreciate you admitting here that you think NASCAR can just get rid of all the current drivers and replace them without any impact to the sport. It's very helpful in understanding your perspective.

 

[wi_racefan]

Sure it does, but like Kenny Schrader says. Drivers think they have a say in how things go in the sport. But they could get rid of all the drivers and in a short time they would have 32 drivers more. Car owners are a different story.

Well in this case I'm sure theres plenty of owners that would be happy to be given 12 mil a year to run a race team as well.

 

[Spotter22]

Curious. How many Frances hit 230 on corner entry? I'll wait right here.

How many race teams built the very sport you are now shiiiting on? I'll wait right here.

 

[StandOnIt]

Well in this case I'm sure theres plenty of owners that would be happy to be given 12 mil a year to run a race team as well.

It's been said that many of the lower tier teams in Nascar are doing just fine with the 12 million. The teams that can't make it on 12 million have the various OEM's on their asses to win at any cost....but we aren't paying you jack either. 23XI isn't one of them, he is forced to have to go thru the preacher and pay him.

 

[wi_racefan]

It's been said that many of the lower tier teams in Nascar are doing just fine with the 12 million. The teams that can't make it on 12 million have the various OEM's on their asses to win at any cost....but we aren't paying you jack either. 23XI isn't one of them, he is forced to have to go thru the preacher and pay him.

Yeah having to pay almost 6 mil a year for an alliance isn't on nascar