23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

rd45usa said:
Easy answer when you don't want to commit perjury.
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Its an easy answer when you dont know the exact answer. If you speculate and say "I believe" or "I think" then they can call into question anything further that doesn't match what you speculated on.
 
I still haven't seen anything that shows what nascar is giving the teams isn't enough to operate. Just teams are choosing to spend more than that. There are so many things that they spend money on that nascar doesnt require them to do. So you spent 6 million on simulation last year? Huh I don't see anywhere that we require teams to do that? You spent several million on a pit crew training facility....nope don't see anywhere that we require that as well.

FRM says they operate at 14 million a year. How much do they pay penske for an alliance? Oh wait they're not required to do that either.

Now the argument of the exclusivity of tracks seems like it could go either way to me.
 
wi_racefan said:
I don't see anything wrong with saying were not going to give you a ton of money to race in our series if you own and operate another competing series.
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Here's a question; we keep hearing about midweek races. Clearly the teams want to do it and NASCAR is the obstacle. So why do I as a fan want this situation where the teams race less?
 
wi_racefan said:
I don't see anything wrong with saying were not going to give you a ton of money to race in our series if you own and operate another
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wi_racefan said:
I don't see anything wrong with saying were not going to give you a ton of money to race in our series if you own and operate another competing series.
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Using the same logic, then why would that not apply to the owners that have a business outside of Nascar?
 
Seems the judge is going to do his best to wrap this thing up this week. Lord knows the jurors are hoping to as well. My knee jerk reaction from I what I have heard and read, its not going good for NASCAR. They seem to be the bully in the room , and who likes a bully?
 
The charter system was put in place mainly to give teams a guaranteed starting spot so they could sell that to sponsors who wanted to invest in the team. An ancillary purpose was to get rid of field fillers and the numerous start and parks because of a performance clause was in the original charters also. .
Here comes a wealthy stick n baller who Hamlin brought in who dumps a ton of money into his teams, building etc. He looks at how much he is not making one day and somebody, who knows who comes up with the idea of franchises, just like stick n ball. So here we are.
 
I’m reluctant to speculate on how this trial is playing out, because I’m not there. Reporters are putting their 2 cents in…maybe it’s a good reflection of the testimony, but the defense hasn’t presented their witnesses yet. If anyone loses this for NASCAR it will be Jim France. His resistance to making some reasonable concessions to the team owners earlier might come back to bite him.

However, the standard required for getting a unanimous verdict in this case is a pretty tall order.
 
Hotrod said:
Seems the judge is going to do his best to wrap this thing up this week. Lord knows the jurors are hoping to as well. My knee jerk reaction from I what I have heard and read, its not going good for NASCAR. They seem to be the bully in the room , and who likes a bully?
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Its not looking good for nascar right now because for the most part they havent argued their side of the case. Things always look different until you hear both sides.
 
Conover said:
I’m reluctant to speculate on how this trial is playing out, because I’m not there. Reporters are putting their 2 cents in…maybe it’s a good reflection of the testimony, but the defense hasn’t presented their witnesses yet. If anyone loses this for NASCAR it will be Jim France. His resistance to making some reasonable concessions to the team owners earlier might come back to bite him.

However, the standard required for getting a unanimous verdict in this case is a pretty tall order.
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A permanent charter is nothing but a franchise. Pretty sure that is why it is called a charter because it never was going to be a permanent thing, never meant to be a franchise. Talk about locking people out of the sport? The nut a new team owner would have to come up to buy a Nascar franchise? Investor groups would be about the only ones who could do it.
 
An X posting I copied pieces of, regarding the plantiff’s “expert” witness who claims to have calculated the damages due to the cabal:

“Economist Edward Snyder contends that the NASCAR series owes 23XI Racing and Front Row Motorsports a staggering $364.7 million in damages from 2021 to 2024. Snyder, a former dean at Yale and University of Chicago, argued NASCAR's 25% revenue share to teams—compared to Formula 1's 45%—is monopolistic and anticompetitive, shortchanging teams by $1.06 billion overall. He claimed NASCAR could pay $300 million more annually per team without bankruptcy risk, using internal documents to highlight exclusivity clauses on tracks and cars that stifle competition. Co-owned by Michael Jordan and Denny Hamlin, 23XI seeks $215.8 million, while Front Row wants $148.9 million.”

First and foremost, comparing the Formula 1 business structure, payout percentages and economic model to NASCAR is idiotic and spurious, especially from a YALE man. Completely different series, media deals, tracks, sponsorship platforms, etc. To contend NASCAR can pay out an extra $300 MILLION DOLLARS PER TEAM without bankruptcy risk is absolutely insane (I actually think this number is the total sum of all chartered teams annually, about an extra $10M per team). Not sure if the error is the “expert” or the breathless blip posting it on X. Regardless, NONE of that proves monopolistic or anticompetitive behavior. Even if it is POSSIBLE to pay more money to the teams, it’s not a decision that should render DAMAGES OF $364 MILLION!

This is the shock value pitch play the cabal did to rattle these common folk jurors. Same play they use when “chasing ambulances”. Exaggerate the potential damages to an astronomical amount, with some sad suffering on top.
 
StandOnIt said:
A permanent charter is nothing but a franchise. Pretty sure that is why it is called a charter because it never was going to be a permanent thing, never meant to be a franchise. Talk about locking people out of the sport? The nut a new team owner would have to come up to buy a Nascar franchise? Investor groups would be about the only ones who could do it.
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The charter stuff is already accomplishing the negative aspects of what a franchise system would accomplish.

The notion that someone could pay $40 million to buy a charter and then NASCAR could simply take that away tomorrow shouldn't sit right with anybody. And 23XI doesn't have a charter now because they didn't agree to a system that didn't guarantee that be permanent.

This is on par with the bull**** where the WNBA isn't letting the people who bought the Sun franchise move it to Boston because they want a team in Cleveland.

This is on par with the nonsense where you can buy a movie on your TV but it can be deleted off your TV by the studio without any refund.

It's just bull****.
 
StandOnIt said:
The Earnhardt's couldn't stand it, jumped right in the middle of it.
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On the postseason part ... it's wild to me that NASCAR is committed to the postseason.

This whole trial is a PR disaster for NASCAR and they could easily win back some good faith points with their fans by dumping the playoffs and aren't even gonna do that.

Jim France has somehow been a bigger disaster than Brian France.
 
HoneyBadger said:
On the postseason part ... it's wild to me that NASCAR is committed to the postseason.

This whole trial is a PR disaster for NASCAR and they could easily win back some good faith points with their fans by dumping the playoffs and aren't even gonna do that.

Jim France has somehow been a bigger disaster than Brian France.
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Wouldn't it be funny if BF has been running the show behind the curtain this whole time. He was put on indefinite suspension with pay. JF was put in place to be a post turtle. 😂😂
 
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