The Saga of Chris Gabehart

rd45usa said:

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Last time I checked its not illegal to pick someone up and have lunch with them. Personal relationships exist in the industry outside of who's working for who.

I can't tell you the times I've talked with and even gone out to lunch with people that are direct competitors to the company I was currently working for.

Unless JGR can prove they were talking about something they shouldn't have it doesn't seem like much of a case. Was he even prohibited from talking to them about employment?
 
Like I said I've been involved in things like this myself. You call and meet people in person. You don't text or email because whatever leaves a digital footprint leaves it open for interpretation
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
I think it’s an interesting question to ask how Kyle would be running in the 18 if he stayed vs how Ty Gibbs is running currently in the the renumbered 54. Would Kyle be 2014-16 Kyle Busch, probably not. Age plays a factor in that. But I also don’t think he’s as bad as what he’s been at RCR, they’re not good. Sorry to say, but they haven’t run well since Kyle won his 3 races in his first year there. It’s not lazy to say I don’t think the team gives him cars that have speed and performance in them, I think you have a combination of a driver most likely falling off his prime but can still produce in the right equipment prepared by the right people and a team that doesn’t have good enough people to prepare equipment for not only an aging driver but most likely a driver who could even compete at his peak. Look at the Harvick years there, many many roller coaster years.

I don’t think it’s as cut and dry to place blame solely on Kyle here. I also am starting to come around that he might have aged out of being that guy he was in the 18 and he’s not coming back anytime soon. My point being is that engineer, crew member, team wise I’d still give the edge to JGR here in a big way over RCR, and I’d bet if Kyle were still there they’d at least be in the 10-12 range of the Chase Grid. Currently better than they’re getting from the Grand son.
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A fair & unbiased response!
 
Revman said:
Kyle might have had a couple of wins--maybe. I think it is pretty conclusive that he cannot drive the Nest Gen. Period. Ty had more of an upside....and still does. All of the **** that he brings upon himself keeps him from realizing it. Will that change? The infrastructure around him enables him. If Coy was here, it would be a different story 100%, but he is not so who knows? Ty absolutely has the talent to be very good--maybe elite--but right now he isn't in the best place to fulfill that. Honestly, he needs another team with an infrastructure that holds his ass accountable....might be too late for that, but I don't know.
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As far as Ty goes I wouldn’t say the fat lady has sung but she’s warming up.
 
So JGR is using the fact that Chris's wife with the spire guys at the end of last season as further proof? Man talk about reaching. These people always hop on a ride with each other in the industry
 
kkfan91 said:
JGR is s scummy
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I'd like to jump to that conclusion as well, but to me there's probably the "other half of the story here" somewhere.

IMO JGR has always kind of played the bully and thought they were better than everyone else, but that's just my opinion
 
kkfan91 said:
JGR is s scummy
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wi_racefan said:
I'd like to jump to that conclusion as well, but to me there's probably the "other half of the story here" somewhere....
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Neither Gabehart nor JGR look lily white, IMO. I mean, the evidence seems very strong that Gabehart did steal the Gibbs intellectual property, although I haven't seen any evidence that he has yet done anything with it to damage JGR. So maybe a jury should rule he is liable for damages... in the amount of $1.

As for Gibbs, they are sleeze balls and bullies. Their scorched earth strategy to this affair is bad for everyone, I believe. Now JGR is doubling down on the scorched earth...

First round: There was merely an employment dispute with an unhappy and unscrupulous employee.
Second round: They extended the lawsuit to Spire.
Third round: JGR dragged their star driver and owners of both 23XI and Front Row into legal proceedings to testify.
Fourth round: Now JGR wants to subpoena three more teams... Trackhouse, Haas Factory Team, and Rick Ware Racing. Soon the whole Nascar garage will be in court, on one side or the other, due to the Joe Gibbs hubris and bully tactics. Jeez Louise, SMFH. :dual9mm:
:bazooka:

 
LewTheShoe said:
Neither Gabehart nor JGR look lily white, IMO. I mean, the evidence seems very strong that Gabehart did steal the Gibbs intellectual property, although I haven't seen any evidence that he has yet done anything with it to damage JGR. So maybe a jury should rule he is liable for damages... in the amount of $1.

As for Gibbs, they are sleeze balls and bullies. Their scorched earth strategy to this affair is bad for everyone, I believe. Now JGR is doubling down on the scorched earth...

First round: There was merely an employment dispute with an unhappy and unscrupulous employee.
Second round: They extended the lawsuit to Spire.
Third round: JGR dragged their star driver and owners of both 23XI and Front Row into legal proceedings to testify.
Fourth round: Now JGR wants to subpoena three more teams... Trackhouse, Haas Factory Team, and Rick Ware Racing. Soon the whole Nascar garage will be in court, on one side or the other, due to the Joe Gibbs hubris and bully tactics. Jeez Louise, SMFH. :dual9mm:
:bazooka:

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What help is Hass going to provide?
 
LewTheShoe said:
Neither Gabehart nor JGR look lily white, IMO. I mean, the evidence seems very strong that Gabehart did steal the Gibbs intellectual property, although I haven't seen any evidence that he has yet done anything with it to damage JGR. So maybe a jury should rule he is liable for damages... in the amount of $1.

As for Gibbs, they are sleeze balls and bullies. Their scorched earth strategy to this affair is bad for everyone, I believe. Now JGR is doubling down on the scorched earth...

First round: There was merely an employment dispute with an unhappy and unscrupulous employee.
Second round: They extended the lawsuit to Spire.
Third round: JGR dragged their star driver and owners of both 23XI and Front Row into legal proceedings to testify.
Fourth round: Now JGR wants to subpoena three more teams... Trackhouse, Haas Factory Team, and Rick Ware Racing. Soon the whole Nascar garage will be in court, on one side or the other, due to the Joe Gibbs hubris and bully tactics. Jeez Louise, SMFH. :dual9mm:
:bazooka:

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It's almost like they are trying to establish a legal precedent across the series to lock in employees for life. Way too much corporate control IMO.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Neither Gabehart nor JGR look lily white, IMO. I mean, the evidence seems very strong that Gabehart did steal the Gibbs intellectual property, although I haven't seen any evidence that he has yet done anything with it to damage JGR. So maybe a jury should rule he is liable for damages... in the amount of $1.

As for Gibbs, they are sleeze balls and bullies. Their scorched earth strategy to this affair is bad for everyone, I believe. Now JGR is doubling down on the scorched earth...

First round: There was merely an employment dispute with an unhappy and unscrupulous employee.
Second round: They extended the lawsuit to Spire.
Third round: JGR dragged their star driver and owners of both 23XI and Front Row into legal proceedings to testify.
Fourth round: Now JGR wants to subpoena three more teams... Trackhouse, Haas Factory Team, and Rick Ware Racing. Soon the whole Nascar garage will be in court, on one side or the other, due to the Joe Gibbs hubris and bully tactics. Jeez Louise, SMFH. :dual9mm:
:bazooka:

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Seems to me that JGR is going to great lengths for retaliation......and Denny in court on the JGR side--that's his former crew chief.....While the popular narrative of the USs is that JGR is awful....there is likely something there....again, my two cents....a geeky engineer who had his ego inflated, and thought he was untouchable. Gabehart is not the secret to JGR's success....that was a narrative from last year after a down year. He was in the right place at the right time.
 
StandOnIt said:
It's almost like they are trying to establish a legal precedent across the series to lock in employees for life. Way too much corporate control IMO.
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How does F1 do it? Gardening leave....should be built into every contract....think twice before you sign. IP is a big deal--particularly to Toyota.
 
Revman said:
How does F1 do it? Gardening leave....should be built into every contract....think twice before you sign. IP is a big deal--particularly to Toyota.
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It isn't Toyota on the lawsuit but Joe Gibbs. Nascar doesn't have "gardening leave". This is a racing corporation suing a former employee for 8 million dollars. Ridiculous IMO.
 
Revman said:
Seems to me that JGR is going to great lengths for retaliation......and Denny in court on the JGR side--that's his former crew chief.....While the popular narrative of the USs is that JGR is awful....there is likely something there....again, my two cents....a geeky engineer who had his ego inflated, and thought he was untouchable. Gabehart is not the secret to JGR's success....that was a narrative from last year after a down year. He was in the right place at the right time.
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Whether the case has any merit or not, I think Much like NASCAR in the 23XI case, JGR is going to lose the PR war on this, and their attitude could hurt the recruitment of top level talent going forward. Something to think about. Not saying it's a total apples to apples comparison, but Rick Hendrick has lost dozens, if not hundreds of employees to other teams. Have you ever ONCE heard him complain about it? Quite the opposite in most cases. When Chadly left for DEI, Rick shook his hand, and forgave a personal loan on the condition that if Rick ever needed him, he would agree to come back. Four years later, that call came......
 
Formerjackman said:
Whether the case has any merit or not, I think Much like NASCAR in the 23XI case, JGR is going to lose the PR war on this, and their attitude could hurt the recruitment of top level talent going forward. Something to think about. Not saying it's a total apples to apples comparison, but Rick Hendrick has lost dozens, if not hundreds of employees to other teams. Have you ever ONCE heard him complain about it? Quite the opposite in most cases. When Chadly left for DEI, Rick shook his hand, and forgave a personal loan on the condition that if Rick ever needed him, he would agree to come back. Four years later, that call came......
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That's how businessmen should conduct themselves, JR treats it much the same
 
Another sticky point to me is how can you accuse Chris of stealing stuff because you hadn't officially fired him? Then if you said he was fired and used the data then you didn't offer cobra and other benefits you're legally obligated to. Just seems so sloppy
 
Revman said:
Seems to me that JGR is going to great lengths for retaliation....
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Exactly. Fueled by hubris and his bullying nature, Gibbs is going to great lengths... via a scorched earth broadside attack against other race teams, with a conspicuous absence of any evidence that these other teams have done anything at all untoward. And ol' @Revman is standing by his side supporting Gibbs at every broadside he launches, SMH.

Joe Gibbs has a legit beef with one disgruntled employee, period. And ol' Pious Joe isn't even close to lily white vis a vis that employee, allegedly, per multiple Gabehart court filings. It was unseemly to embroil owners of Front Row and 23XI in sermon-like declarations. And Gibbs has cited zero evidence to support court action against Spire, Trackhouse, Haas Factory, or Rick Ware. Until he does, it's just more hubris and more bullying, in my opinion.
 
wi_racefan said:
Another sticky point to me is how can you accuse Chris of stealing stuff because you hadn't officially fired him? Then if you said he was fired and used the data then you didn't offer cobra and other benefits you're legally obligated to. Just seems so sloppy
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Yeah really murky in a lot of areas. It's a hard law to provide cobra, quit paying (starving out Gabehart and family) but acting like he was still working there. Trying to make Gabehart a liability to punish Spire for hiring him and every other team that might have said hi in passing to Gabehart or Spire. Preacher Joe isn't making any friends IMO.
 
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