Phoenix RACE thread

Danny Ocean said:
I still struggle to get behind any format where a 43rd place driver who is limping around can blow a tire (among other things) to have any effect on the outcome of a playoff race. Whether that is taking a drive out in a wreck, or changing late race pit strategy. Those guys not directly in the 'playoffs' should not have a chance to change the race in any way.
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Ok, good thought --- but, how do you prevent that? Have only the the drivers in the playoffs in the race?
 
Danny Ocean said:
Just my $.02

This new format is interesting, only for the fact it has made more drivers show a willingness to go for it. That's it.

I still struggle to get behind any format where a 43rd place driver who is limping around can blow a tire (among other things) to have any effect on the outcome of a playoff race. Whether that is taking a drive out in a wreck, or changing late race pit strategy. Those guys not directly in the 'playoffs' should not have a chance to change the race in any way.
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That is a fact of nascar, and it has been for years. this is nothing new. it is now seen in a different light because of the new format for the championship.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
Ok, good thought --- but, how do you prevent that? Have only the the drivers in the playoffs in the race?
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It doesn't work with just 10 or 12 drivers either. Which is why a playoff system in NASCAR doesn't work. You cant take out 36 other drivers off the track and you cant let only 12 have it.

What do you do? Go back.

But that is also far fetch. NASCAR has crossed that line a long time ago so we're stuck in the middle. We have what we have now.
 
Reck said:
It doesn't work with just 10 or 12 drivers either. Which is why a playoff system in NASCAR doesn't work. You cant take out 36 other drivers off the track and you cant let only 12 have it.

What do you do? Go back.

But that is also far fetch. NASCAR has crossed that line a long time ago so we're stuck in the middle. We have what we have now.
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Exactly, Reck. This is what we and the teams have been given. So, we either go with it or we leave the sport.
Me? I chose to live with it.
 
Blaze88 said:
So that's a yes?

So an argument that says Newman did what he had to do and anyone would to advance is ridiculous?
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I was just saying that just because "anyone" in that situation would do the same thing, doesn't mean that it's necessarily the right thing to do.
 
Matthew2470 said:
Truex didn't even try to challenge Newman even though he had fresher tires and a faster car. I'd be interested to hear his radio chatter given that he runs RCR engines.
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Would be interested in hearing the #42 radio chatter too. Ganassi runs RCR chassis.
 
Nathan_259 said:
Well, I guess I just misinterpreted what you said. A driver who desperately wants to get in, in the heat of the moment, would maybe do something a bit dirty in order to so, and someone watching could easily call what they did out to be ridiculous.
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I can get him doing it, it was his driver being knocked out because of it. Now had Jeff made that same move to get in he'd be praising it and saying he did what he had to do to advance.
 
Blaze88 said:
I can get him doing it, it was his driver being knocked out because of it. Now had Jeff made that same move to get in he'd be praising it and saying he did what he had to do to advance.
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Unless Gordon is going for an actual win. You'll never see him pulling shenanigans like this.

If that was the case he would have dumped a few cars back in 2013 when initially Truex was in to gain an advantage.
 
Matthew2470 said:
Not anymore. Things change. NASCAR has given the fans everything the fans say they want. Those that don't like it are free to not watch.

As a Gordon fan, I totally understand the frustration but it's just racing. No one died. Gordon has probably 3 seasons left. I plan on enjoying them instead of wasting time crying over spilled milk. Hopefully Jeff can get to 100 wins and get that 5th Cup but if it doesn't happen I'll just be glad that I was around to watch him.
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don' try to make me like a Gordon fan!:D
 
TexasRaceLady said:
Ok, good thought --- but, how do you prevent that? Have only the the drivers in the playoffs in the race?
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That's the part that becomes tough. Having a final race where 4 drivers are out on a race track, in which all of them could be spread all across the track. The racing could be limited, and the ratings would be a definite question mark.

I get why NASCAR has not gone that route.

On the flip side, I do think it would change how many non-competitive teams drive (the start and parkers). It would also not allow other drivers to be comfortable with 'learning' or with a 15th place finish. The difference in money from not making the 'playoffs' to making the 'playoffs' would be enormous, and would force the hands of alot of teams to either be more competitive, or get out of the sport.

Would I like to see it attempted? Yes. Do I think it would be difficult to pull off in NASCAR? I would have to say 'yes' to that as well.
 
Matthew2470 said:
Not anymore. Things change. NASCAR has given the fans everything the fans say they want. Those that don't like it are free to not watch.

As a Gordon fan, I totally understand the frustration but it's just racing. No one died. Gordon has probably 3 seasons left. I plan on enjoying them instead of wasting time crying over spilled milk. Hopefully Jeff can get to 100 wins and get that 5th Cup but if it doesn't happen I'll just be glad that I was around to watch him.
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Were you around when this system was announced before being implimented? The response was overwhelmingly negative, but the idiots in charge decided to impliment this playoff system anyway. Before this year, people were complaining about the old Chase and wanted it to go away.


This was a case of NASCAR giving their fans something they did not want.
 
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Reck said:
Unless Gordon is going for an actual win. You'll never see him pulling shenanigans like this.

If that was the case he would have dumped a few cars back in 2013 when initially Truex was in to gain an advantage.
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Well maybe that's the reason he's not winning a championship this year. It's not dirty to just move a guy out the way, it's the driver you want to pass job to keep you behind him, it's yours to get around him. If a bumper or a side bump or anything is what you have to do so be it, as long as you're not just straight up putting a driver into the wall it's fair game.
 
Blaze88 said:
Well maybe that's the reason he's not winning a championship this year. It's not dirty to just move a guy out the way, it's the driver you want to pass job to keep you behind him, it's yours to get around him. If a bumper or a side bump or anything is what you have to do so be it, as long as you're not just straight up putting a driver into the wall it's fair game.
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The reason he's not going to win a championship this year was because some punk thought it was cool to drive over his head.

Gordon potentially could have won all 3 races so the reason why he's not in it is not because he sucked or felt under the pressure. Short of winning Phoenix, you couldn't have asked more from what Gordon did.

You have a very limited view on things. Makes it hard to even argue a point.
 
Ya know the prechase points system had its problems too. It rewarded consistency and not winning. Case in point, 1985, Elliott dominates the season, 11 wins, loses to Daryll at the final race in Atlanta. Just sayin
 
Reck said:
The reason he's not going to win a championship this year was because some punk thought it was cool to drive over his head.

Gordon potentially could have won all 3 races so the reason why he's not in it is not because he sucked or felt under the pressure. Short of winning Phoenix, you couldn't have asked more from what Gordon did.

You have a very limited view on things. Makes it hard to even argue a point.
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I never said he sucked, just that maybe he should have moved Kevin on that restart. Would Gordon been driving over his head had he done that?
 
be9ak7ts16 said:
Ya know the prechase points system had its problems too. It rewarded consistency and not winning. Case in point, 1985, Elliott dominates the season, 11 wins, loses to Daryll at the final race in Atlanta. Just sayin
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Still a much better system than what we've got now.

EDIT: And there's a 25% chance that this year's champion will be winless.
 
Blaze88 said:
I never said he sucked, just that maybe he should have moved Kevin on that restart. Would Gordon been driving over his head had he done that?
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Taking someone out on a restart is not the way to go.

First of all is not even practical. Most of the times, when you do, not only do you take the first place car out, but you as well.

Only guy who benefits is the third or 4 place car.

If Gordon was a newbie he could probably have done just that but he has far too much experience to pull a desperate move like that.

Thing is, second was almost good enough to get him through until Newman played rough.

And by the way. I have no issue with what Newman did. That was his choice.

I am content enough that everyone who saw that race thought that move was rather cheap, including Newman himself.

As far as you know what you did was questionable and can live with the consequences. Good for you.
 
BOWTIE GUY said:
you have the wrong bowtie guy dude. never had a bad word to say about tony other them him driving that ugly orange car.
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I quoted the wrong post.

I meant you talking about Harvick's struggles. He's been a top three driver all year. No one has led even 75% of the laps he has and he was 2nd in driver rating going into the weekend (and may be 1st after today).
 
FLRacingFan said:
I quoted the wrong post.

I meant you talking about Harvick's struggles. He's been a top three driver all year. No one has led even 75% of the laps he has and he was 2nd in driver rating going into the weekend (and may be 1st after today).
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I have been a harvick fan since day one, but that move at dega not helping Newman to the win and keep kez out was bs and they did have some struggles.
 
Reck said:
Taking someone out on a restart is not the way to go.

First of all is not even practical. Most of the times, when you do, not only do you take the first place car out, but you as well.

Only guy who benefits is the third or 4 place car.

If Gordon was a newbie he could probably have done just that but he has far too much experience to pull a desperate move like that.

Thing is, second was almost good enough to get him through until Newman played rough.

And by the way. I have no issue with what Newman did. That was his choice.

I am content enough that everyone who saw that race thought that move was rather cheap, including Newman himself.

As far as you know what you did was questionable and can live with the consequences. Good for you.
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Seeing as you don't even think Newman did anything wrong I wasn't aiming it towards you. Only anyone who wants to complain over Newman's move are who I'm asking what they would do if Jeff did it. If you had found both ok I respect that, same as anyone who'd find both wrong. Just can't have it both ways.
 
be9ak7ts16 said:
Ya know the prechase points system had its problems too. It rewarded consistency and not winning. Case in point, 1985, Elliott dominates the season, 11 wins, loses to Daryll at the final race in Atlanta. Just sayin
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I still think back on Kenseth winning the title in '03 and it makes me realize how bad the old system was in some years.

A guy who had 1 win, and lead a total of 350 laps in 36 races won a championship that year. Just absurd.
 
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