Legacy to Toyota

In this case, I don't see it getting any better for Johnson.
Jones in 27th doesn't have a prayer of making even the first round of the playoffs, and Nemo in 31st is even farther away.
 
Efisher131 said:
Legacy, the new Rick Ware
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I don't think that is fair, because at their worst it was hard to make the case that RWR was even TRYING. I have never got that impression from Legacy, or even the team pre-Jimmie. I just think they are completely lost right now, being a stand alone Toyota team may be worse than being a JGR puppet, and at this point, I don't think Jimmie has ANYTHING left to contribute as a DRIVER, and his running a third car is just a net drain on the operation. A HMS or a JGR could absorb that kind of drain. A struggling Legacy likely cannot. I don't see how dumping Burdett helps their cause at all either.
 
Remember when DW kept driving for way too long? Some people's memories of his driving career jump to the 66 Haas-Carter Taurus days, depending on the era in which you started watching.

That's what Jimmie is doing right now.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Remember when DW kept driving for way too long? Some people's memories of his driving career jump to the 66 Haas-Carter Taurus days, depending on the era in which you started watching.

That's what Jimmie is doing right now.
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Sometimes you can point to a driver and say "He's why that rules was changed."

DW is why the Past Champion's Provisional no longer exists.
 
These guys were better last year as the Chevy redheaded step child than all the information they were supposed to get from TRD.

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Charlie Spencer said:
Sometimes you can point to a driver and say "He's why that rules was changed."

DW is why the Past Champion's Provisional no longer exists.
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Didn’t the past champion’s provisional last a while after DW retired? I remember they started limiting how often it could be used but it hung on for a while. Dale Jarrett used it to get MWR into some races in 2007 and I feel like it somehow hung on into the 2010s.
 
The Nature Boy said:
Didn’t the past champion’s provisional last a while after DW retired? I remember they started limiting how often it could be used but it hung on for a while. Dale Jarrett used it to get MWR into some races in 2007 and I feel like it somehow hung on into the 2010s.
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I remember one race they told DW he couldn't use it and he made such big deal about getting into the race one speed

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The Nature Boy said:
Didn’t the past champion’s provisional last a while after DW retired? I remember they started limiting how often it could be used but it hung on for a while. Dale Jarrett used it to get MWR into some races in 2007 and I feel like it somehow hung on into the 2010s.
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Yeah, but DW's weekly abuse put the writing on the wall.
 
wi_racefan said:
These guys were better last year as the Chevy redheaded step child than all the information they were supposed to get from TRD.

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You are clear that they came from an alliance with Poor Richard ....and that they have taken a quantum leap to be a stand alone with TRD. Did anybody expect them to take the data that JGR has access to, and turn Legacy into a final four team in one year? Answer....no. Literally everybody associated with this team knew that it would take time. Jimmie and Maury are playing the long game here.
 
wi_racefan said:
These guys were better last year as the Chevy redheaded step child than all the information they were supposed to get from TRD.

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I wouldn't be surprised if they go back to Chevy next year or Ford for that matter. Ford is down on car count after SHR dissolved.
 
StandOnIt said:
I wouldn't be surprised if they go back to Chevy next year or Ford for that matter. Ford is down on car count after SHR dissolved.
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You don’t really believe that. You’re too smart.
 
Legacy will be the next team to fold and sell Charter. They should have aligned with Denny's team.
 
Team Penske said:
Legacy will be the next team to fold and sell Charter. They should have aligned with Denny's team.
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Wow. We need to get back to racing. They will fold, and align with a team that is aligned. Got it.
 
Revman said:
You are clear that they came from an alliance with Poor Richard ....and that they have taken a quantum leap to be a stand alone with TRD. Did anybody expect them to take the data that JGR has access to, and turn Legacy into a final four team in one year? Answer....no. Literally everybody associated with this team knew that it would take time. Jimmie and Maury are playing the long game here.
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I don't think ANYONE expected a bunch of wins and deep runs in the playoffs, but I also don't think anybody was expecting them to be as bad as they have been, at least where Jones is concerned. If you manage to win a race with third tier support, you expect them to at least get some top tens with first tier support. I understand it's their first year with Toyota, but off the top of my head, I can't think of a tier one support team that has been this bad in recent memory, first year or not. They were better last year when they weren't getting ANY help for most of the season.
 
Formerjackman said:
I don't think ANYONE expected a bunch of wins and deep runs in the playoffs, but I also don't think anybody was expecting them to be as bad as they have been, at least where Jones is concerned. If you manage to win a race with third tier support, you expect them to at least get some top tens with first tier support. I understand it's their first year with Toyota, but off the top of my head, I can't think of a tier one support team that has been this bad in recent memory, first year or not. They were better last year when they weren't getting ANY help for most of the season.
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Can you think of a team in its second year of existence that changed from a Tier 772 team to a Tier 1 team with a different manufacturer in the Next Gen era? I can't. What we know is that the cars are close by design. Details make the difference, and Legacy has a billion more considerations about this details than they did with they were with the Childress leftovers. Too much information has taken them into the weeds. The people are changing. They will get it figured out, and it will be fascinating to watch. Literally everybody knew that there would be a learning curve. The drama is just that. They will be fine. TRD doesn't mess this kind of thing up.
 
Revman said:
Can you think of a team in its second year of existence that changed from a Tier 772 team to a Tier 1 team with a different manufacturer in the Next Gen era? I can't. What we know is that the cars are close by design. Details make the difference, and Legacy has a billion more considerations about this details than they did with they were with the Childress leftovers. Too much information has taken them into the weeds. The people are changing. They will get it figured out, and it will be fascinating to watch. Literally everybody knew that there would be a learning curve. The drama is just that. They will be fine. TRD doesn't mess this kind of thing up.
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MWR?
 
I can. Trackhouse started from scratch, Kaulig also, and both of them have done better than Legacy their first years.
 
I really hope Legacy succeeds, and even though I'm a Chevy guy, it would be nice to see them do well with Toyota. I really want an independent Toyota team with no JGR affiliation to win some races.

I don't get the Burdett thing, though. Maybe it was mutual? Looking at his history and accomplishments, he sure doesn't seem like the type of guy you want to get rid of.
 
Technically its one of (if not) the oldest team in cup. Only team I can think of being around nearly as long would be the woods Brothers.
 
2 Sweet said:
I really hope Legacy succeeds, and even though I'm a Chevy guy, it would be nice to see them do well with Toyota. I really want an independent Toyota team with no JGR affiliation to win some races.

I don't get the Burdett thing, though. Maybe it was mutual? Looking at his history and accomplishments, he sure doesn't seem like the type of guy you want to get rid of.
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I literally have no doubt that they will be successful. I don't see anybody at TRD ****ting themselves. This sport is so awesome. The assumption is that the Next Gen would be spec racing. Not so fast. I think we are finding that the engineers are more important than ever. Details. Small details. I do believe what has happened with Legacy is that they have more information than the organization can handle, but that is changing with the personnel changes. Cal Wells bleeds Toyota red, and is a close friend to TRD. He will get it right, and it is going to be fun to watch. Honestly, I think that the greatest fear we all should have had was that Legacy would sign up with TRD, and see immediate success.....spec stuff. So far from that. Look at Trackhouse.....Look at Childress. Childress is complete **** because they rode the data advantage in developing the Next Gen, and then ran out of talent. NASCAR got it right with the Next Gen, and I don't care what the death bedders say.
 
Revman said:
I literally have no doubt that they will be successful. I don't see anybody at TRD ****ting themselves. This sport is so awesome. The assumption is that the Next Gen would be spec racing. Not so fast. I think we are finding that the engineers are more important than ever. Details. Small details. I do believe what has happened with Legacy is that they have more information than the organization can handle, but that is changing with the personnel changes. Cal Wells bleeds Toyota red, and is a close friend to TRD. He will get it right, and it is going to be fun to watch. Honestly, I think that the greatest fear we all should have had was that Legacy would sign up with TRD, and see immediate success.....spec stuff. So far from that. Look at Trackhouse.....Look at Childress. Childress is complete **** because they rode the data advantage in developing the Next Gen, and then ran out of talent. NASCAR got it right with the Next Gen, and I don't care what the death bedders say.
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What turnip truck did you fall out of? It's been said numerous times that teams have pretty much infinite settings in the suspension areas and that covers a whole lot.
At this point, it looks like Legacy is a throw away team. They have John hunter driving junk just like the last time he drove for the yotas in cup, and Jones is doing as bad or worse than when he drove junk for Petty. That's the reality of the situation.
 
All ya have to do is look what they did to Barney. Not only did they take his driver, but they took his sponsor too and this was a Cup Championship team for f's sake. They can't do that to Michael Jordon, but they can take Legacy's money because it isn't enough, neither was Leavine's . Legacy is floundering.
 
StandOnIt said:
What turnip truck did you fall out of? It's been said numerous times that teams have pretty much infinite settings in the suspension areas and that covers a whole lot.
At this point, it looks like Legacy is a throw away team. They have John hunter driving junk just like the last time he drove for the yotas in cup, and Jones is doing as bad or worse than when he drove junk for Petty. That's the reality of the situation.
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The reality of the situation is that you just proved my point. There is so much **** to dig through that it will take people and time to get it right. Contrary to your BS, TRD doesn't run the teams. WE haven't had a new stand alone in TRD Land in the Next Gen era....Thanks for the assist, but I am good on my own.
 
StandOnIt said:
All ya have to do is look what they did to Barney. Not only did they take his driver, but they took his sponsor too and this was a Cup Championship team for f's sake. They can't do that to Michael Jordon, but they can take Legacy's money because it isn't enough, neither was Leavine's . Legacy is floundering.
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Delusional. Stay tuned. David Wilson absolutely is in love with Jimmie. They are quite a bit alike.....it will be fine, but you'll flop just like ya did with KFB and his Resurrection Tour. Where'd ya go man? You even turned on Poor Orange Richard.
 
StandOnIt said:
All ya have to do is look what they did to Barney. Not only did they take his driver, but they took his sponsor too and this was a Cup Championship team for f's sake. They can't do that to Michael Jordon, but they can take Legacy's money because it isn't enough, neither was Leavine's . Legacy is floundering.
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I know. It's not like Barney had a heart attack or said anything to the contrary. I'll let you do the searches about Legacy's outlook before the season started. As you noted, many variables at play. It will take time....meanwhile you keep blabbing about Barney.....and let me know when you want that KFB prize pack.
 
Revman said:
I literally have no doubt that they will be successful. I don't see anybody at TRD ****ting themselves. This sport is so awesome. The assumption is that the Next Gen would be spec racing. Not so fast. I think we are finding that the engineers are more important than ever. Details. Small details. I do believe what has happened with Legacy is that they have more information than the organization can handle, but that is changing with the personnel changes. Cal Wells bleeds Toyota red, and is a close friend to TRD. He will get it right, and it is going to be fun to watch. Honestly, I think that the greatest fear we all should have had was that Legacy would sign up with TRD, and see immediate success.....spec stuff. So far from that. Look at Trackhouse.....Look at Childress. Childress is complete **** because they rode the data advantage in developing the Next Gen, and then ran out of talent. NASCAR got it right with the Next Gen, and I don't care what the death bedders say.
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I'll give you credit Rev, your faith in all and anything TRD makes me wonder if my own faith in God is strong enough by comparison. 🙂 Back to the point, I understand growing pains, but one would think Toyota could get them enough data to at least be in the game a little more. And as far as setups, nearly all of that should be a carryover from last year, with some more data thrown in from Toyota to build on. I can understand them not really being a lot better than last year at this point, I'm just having a hard time understanding how they are WORSE. I don't expect instant miracles, but I don't think regular 10-20th place finishes is out of the question for a tier one team, first year of a new program or not. Hearing Jimmie talk about how hard this has all been is a good reminder of how easy people like Rick Hendrick, Joe Gibbs and Roger Penske make it look sometimes. Regardless how good you are or who is behind you, far more people fail in this business than succeed.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'll give you credit Rev, your faith in all and anything TRD makes me wonder if my own faith in God is strong enough by comparison. 🙂 Back to the point, I understand growing pains, but one would think Toyota could get them enough data to at least be in the game a little more. And as far as setups, nearly all of that should be a carryover from last year, with some more data thrown in from Toyota to build on. I can understand them not really being a lot better than last year at this point, I'm just having a hard time understanding how they are WORSE. I don't expect instant miracles, but I don't think regular 10-20th place finishes is out of the question for a tier one team, first year of a new program or not. Hearing Jimmie talk about how hard this has all been is a good reminder of how easy people like Rick Hendrick, Joe Gibbs and Roger Penske make it look sometimes. Regardless how good you are or who is behind you, far more people fail in this business than succeed.
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Not if you are Rev the yota whisperer.
 
My 2 cents worth. IDC if Legacy makes it or not. JMHO

Carry on gentlemen

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