The Nature Boy
NASCAR needs a driver's union
See college BB.
NC State is a good example. You can also reference when UMBC (a 16 seed) beat Virginia (a 1 seed).
Funny how no one questions the legitimacy of the NCAA Champion.
See college BB.
Guys please go find the stick and ball thread, this is off topic.See college BB.
I always find trying to compare racing to stuff like football, baseball, basketball, etc weird. In those sports you need playoffs because in those you don't play everyone and its always one team vs another team. Racing, every team is on the track every week, so you get 36 weeks to see who the best of the best is. Football for example, the team you play in the Championship, you might not have played all season. Baseball you might have only played them like two series or so. Surely with college, with how many teams they are? Think that's why I think no one says anything about any of those.NC State is a good example. You can also reference when UMBC (a 16 seed) beat Virginia (a 1 seed).
Funny how no one questions the legitimacy of the NCAA Champion.
Division 1 has 355 teams, you can't compare the two, they are completely different.See college BB.
And stick and ball playoff types are the reason Nascar has this mess we are discussing today and IMO Nascar's version is worse than any of the stick and ball stuff.I always find trying to compare racing to stuff like football, baseball, basketball, etc weird. In those sports you need playoffs because in those you don't play everyone and its always one team vs another team. Racing, every team is on the track every week, so you get 36 weeks to see who the best of the best is. Football for example, the team you play in the Championship, you might not have played all season. Baseball you might have only played them like two series or so. Surely with college, with how many teams they are? Think that's why I think no one says anything about any of those.
oh 100% agree.And stick and ball playoff types are the reason Nascar has this mess we are discussing today and IMO Nascar's version is worse than any of the stick and ball stuff.
I always find trying to compare racing to stuff like football, baseball, basketball, etc weird. In those sports you need playoffs because in those you don't play everyone and its always one team vs another team. Racing, every team is on the track every week, so you get 36 weeks to see who the best of the best is. Football for example, the team you play in the Championship, you might not have played all season. Baseball you might have only played them like two series or so. Surely with college, with how many teams they are? Think that's why I think no one says anything about any of those.
I never really argued if it was legitimate or not. Just that other sports need them, where NASCAR doesn't. If NASCAR wants to do playoffs, then maybe split up into two conferences and 3-4 Divisions. Then send like the Division Champions to the playoffs, then maybe 2-3 wildcards. I said before BY THE RULES then whoever gets in gets in and it's fair.One comparison is that the championship is based on a criteria that all competitors agreed upon. The other comparison is that both systems reward people/teams who get hot in the playoffs. I would argue that the NASCAR playoffs are fairer than most other postseason formats because of playoff points. If you don’t perform in the regular season, it’s an uphill slog to advance to the Champ 4.
I would prefer a full season format but acting like a championship isn’t legitimate is just silly.
The calculus in structuring a championship for a sport that has 360+ teams across 32 conference pretty much necessitates a field that big, unless you wanted to outright exclude half the country being represented like in football.NC State is a good example. You can also reference when UMBC (a 16 seed) beat Virginia (a 1 seed).
Funny how no one questions the legitimacy of the NCAA Champion.
No national sport should be owned by a family and subject to basically no outside review. Can’t believe it still exists in this structure to be honest. It’s odd. I like watching racing but every time I think of how it’s owned and operated…Been like that for quite a while. Anyone that speaks in any negative tone about the format or cars gets heavily fined or even suspended. It's their playground, either like it or leave is their attitude.
Just wish it was in Vegas or some other city that knew how to put on a real show. Phoenix manages to suck half the life out of this amazing race by just not putting much into it. Track aside…they could do so much better.Ten weeks to Phoenix. I can't wait.
I feel like the atmosphere is incredible.Just wish it was in Vegas or some other city that knew how to put on a real show. Phoenix manages to suck half the life out of this amazing race by just not putting much into it. Track aside…they could do so much better.
Yeah, but NASCAR owns Phoenix, and SMI owns Vegas, so you know, who cares if Vegas is obviously a better and more interesting place for a finale? Boy, did I ever wind up supporting your larger point in this thread. LOLI’ve been multiple times to both Phoenix s d Vegas including the Championship and while I somewhat prefer the track at Phoenix I really feel Vegas puts on the better show.
We're all Americans here and so we all associate sports with some sort of "playoffs" and "postseason". There's no playoffs to decide who wins any European national championship in soccer. The reason we have playoff systems is because MLB was created out of two separate leagues who had to have a championship game; NFL/AFL wound up doing the same thing. Everything here was inspired by baseball having Pennant battles followed by the World Series and expanded on because TV networks appreciated the ratings. NASCAR just kinda mushed the concept into a preexisting framework of races. It would be one thing *to me* if *I* was getting some Busch Clash style sprint series from Nov-Dec to crown a champ, but *I'm* not. YMMV.I never really argued if it was legitimate or not. Just that other sports need them, where NASCAR doesn't. If NASCAR wants to do playoffs, then maybe split up into two conferences and 3-4 Divisions. Then send like the Division Champions to the playoffs, then maybe 2-3 wildcards. I said before BY THE RULES then whoever gets in gets in and it's fair.
If you want to keep the playoffs so be it, just make it so a team in 34th doesn't get in.We're all Americans here and so we all associate sports with some sort of "playoffs" and "postseason". There's no playoffs to decide who wins any European national championship in soccer. The reason we have playoff systems is because MLB was created out of two separate leagues who had to have a championship game; NFL/AFL wound up doing the same thing. Everything here was inspired by baseball having Pennant battles followed by the World Series and expanded on because TV networks appreciated the ratings. NASCAR just kinda mushed the concept into a preexisting framework of races. It would be one thing *to me* if *I* was getting some Busch Clash style sprint series from Nov-Dec to crown a champ, but *I'm* not. YMMV.
I don't associate "playoffs" with racing. There isn't any racing series that I know that has a playoff system. One of the many reasons it doesn't work, is how stupid is that to "eliminate" drivers and teams and they are still racing a week later? I guess that is under the "Don't look ethyl" category. I have trouble with the every point matters deal also after watching drivers/teams who have earned high spots in the point system suddenly SHAZAM, their opportunity to finish any higher than 17th place is gone. Every point doesn't matter.We're all Americans here and so we all associate sports with some sort of "playoffs" and "postseason". There's no playoffs to decide who wins any European national championship in soccer. The reason we have playoff systems is because MLB was created out of two separate leagues who had to have a championship game; NFL/AFL wound up doing the same thing. Everything here was inspired by baseball having Pennant battles followed by the World Series and expanded on because TV networks appreciated the ratings. NASCAR just kinda mushed the concept into a preexisting framework of races. It would be one thing *to me* if *I* was getting some Busch Clash style sprint series from Nov-Dec to crown a champ, but *I'm* not. YMMV.
If you mean the year he almost won it by pointing his way to the championship, no. It’s been 16 drivers since this format came around in 2014. 2004 it started with 10, can’t remember what year it became 12, but those weren’t one with one race to crown a champion.Hamlin mentioned going back to the top ten drivers. If I am not mistaken, isn't that where Newman almost won it to the horror of Nascar? In another year, didn't Carl Edwards get wrecked out and quit?
It's funny though, comparing the simpler version with Newman almost winning with all of the band aid changes made after that to the complicated mess we have today. 16 cars and the "win and you are in" jackpot SMH. .
I think going back to the 10 car championship Denny talks about is a moot point anyway. The media clown show circus is addicted and is doubling up with even more bells and whistles for next year. At any rate, dissatisfaction is growing with the state of affairs that Nascar and the media continues to promote instead of a good honest racing format.
What I'm saying here is that the concept of "playoffs" being a necessary thing for sports is primarily an American concept of sports, not a universal one. Yeah, the only series that run any kind of end of season playoff extravaganza are NASCAR's national touring series, the NHRA pro classes, and the Lucas Oil Late Model Series. There are also about 2 bajillion racing series in the world, and these three encompass the only three ranging from Finnish rallycross to Thai Sport Ute racing to do that. It is a jarring difference (and has innately led to so many other "innovations" like stage breaks due to how the playoffs and GWC have changed the racing itself) if you watch other things.I don't associate "playoffs" with racing. There isn't any racing series that I know that has a playoff system. One of the many reasons it doesn't work, is how stupid is that to "eliminate" drivers and teams and they are still racing a week later? I guess that is under the "Don't look ethyl" category. I have trouble with the every point matters deal also after watching drivers/teams who have earned high spots in the point system suddenly SHAZAM, their opportunity to finish any higher than 17th place is gone. Every point doesn't matter.
With all of this being said, is anybody as excited as I am for the start of all of this? Honest question.....Do the Playoffs ruin the season for some? Do you feel that strongly about this? For me, it's a game changer. Just like the post season in other sports, this feel different starting Sunday. Love this. So jacked.
I always find trying to compare racing to stuff like football, baseball, basketball, etc weird. In those sports you need playoffs because in those you don't play everyone and its always one team vs another team. Racing, every team is on the track every week, so you get 36 weeks to see who the best of the best is. Football for example, the team you play in the Championship, you might not have played all season. Baseball you might have only played them like two series or so. Surely with college, with how many teams they are? Think that's why I think no one says anything about any of those.