Enough Is Enough Full Season Championship.

The Nature Boy said:
Most of his posts complaining about it have come since the Dillon fiasco. Wonder why….🤔
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You say this points system is simple. Tell me how a driver was 16th last night after the race and this A.M. he is in 20th? Or the season winner has lost 3 places overnight?
 
StandOnIt said:
You say this points system is simple. Tell me how a driver was 16th last night after the race and this A.M. he is in 20th? Or the season winner has lost 3 places overnight?
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Those make mathematical sense. I agree with you that “win and you’re in” needs to go, but it’s not a hard system to understand.

Drivers are seeded by playoff points, which are accumulated based on stage wins, race wins, and your finishing position in the regular season. If you don’t meet the criteria for selection into the playoffs, you’re relegated to 17th or worse.

It’s an imperfect system. I would just take the top 12 in points and make each round (including the finale) three races. “Win and you’re in” and the one race finale are massive flaws in the system. Playoff points ensure that regular season performance is rewarded better than any other Chase/playoff structure but NASCAR had to go a step further and add some wacky elements.

It’s a legitimate system but wouldn’t be my preferred way of crowning a champion. However, I don’t try to impose my preferences on other people and claim that a sport’s championship is illegitimate because I don’t like the rules.
 
The Nature Boy said:
Those make mathematical sense. I agree with you that “win and you’re in” needs to go, but it’s not a hard system to understand.

Drivers are seeded by playoff points, which are accumulated based on stage wins, race wins, and your finishing position in the regular season. If you don’t meet the criteria for selection into the playoffs, you’re relegated to 17th or worse.

It’s an imperfect system. I would just take the top 12 in points and make each round (including the finale) three races. “Win and you’re in” and the one race finale are massive flaws in the system. Playoff points ensure that regular season performance is rewarded better than any other Chase/playoff structure but NASCAR had to go a step further and add some wacky elements.

It’s a legitimate system but wouldn’t be my preferred way of crowning a champion. However, I don’t try to impose my preferences on other people and claim that a sport’s championship is illegitimate because I don’t like the rules.
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What would you call it then? It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. It is so overbalanced that they have to create band aid after band aid to justify what they are doing with the points. They end up taking guys that should be in their playoff points wise, legitimate positions using their points system and poof, they aren't in their playoffs.?
 
StandOnIt said:
What would you call it then? It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. It is so overbalanced that they have to create band aid after band aid to justify what they are doing with the points. They end up taking guys that should be in their playoff points wise, legitimate positions using their points system and poof, they aren't in their playoffs.?
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Did anyone who was “disappeared” win a race?
 
aunty dive said:
Did anyone who was “disappeared” win a race?
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No drivers who were there because they earned the points to be there were. (overbalanced)
Might as well just have drivers who have won a race only in the playoffs. Call it the jackpotters.
 
StandOnIt said:
No drivers who were there because they earned the points to be there were. (overbalanced)
Might as well just have drivers who have won a race only in the playoffs. Call it the jackpotters.
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Or you could call it the list of drivers / owners who made it into the 10 race playoff based upon the rules that have been in place all season and are well known by the combatants.
 
aunty dive said:
Or you could call it the list of drivers / owners who made it into the 10 race playoff based upon the rules that have been in place all season and are well known by the combatants.
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And fudge up the points to make it so. Have a last place driver and still last place after a win and poof he and others somehow displaces drivers who earned points to be in the top 16. That's fair?
 
aunty dive said:
I didn’t comment on the system’s fairness.

Different discussion, imo.
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What you are saying is them there's the rules. That is the Kyle Petty argument. I'm saying they are an unfair made up band aid ridden mess of a way to crown a champion. For example, last year the car with the 3rd best record in the season won the Championship. Them there's the rules. Myself, I am watching good racing trying to ignore the clown show going on. There have been 4 or 5 cars all year fighting for the top spots. That's enough without the circus and the 4 car dice roll at the end.
 
StandOnIt said:
To think that Nascar drivers wouldn't race as hard for a less gimmicky point system is a disrespect for the drivers and crews who put the show on and fans alike. Now it's time to fudge up the points even more and shut out the rest of the field, never mind that some might possibly make late season runs, it's 17th or worse for you. Don't do better than that and mess our whole fantasy up.
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Wouldn’t you agree there’s so much more drama induced by the format now?! NBC had three boxes picture-in-picture last night showing the battle for the race lead, Bubba, and Buescher! Wild stuff. When was there ever that much drama before?
 
NASCAR Apologist said:
Wouldn’t you agree there’s so much more drama induced by the format now?! NBC had three boxes picture-in-picture last night showing the battle for the race lead, Bubba, and Buescher! Wild stuff. When was there ever that much drama before?
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Speaking of Buescher. He sure got the shaft with this point system. He was 11th using regular season points until the fluky points reset. Personally I think racing for position can be exciting. There were four cars all fighting for the top positions all year so far. Now we will spend most of our time watching cut off line racing cars. Having 4 cars for the championship? Last year the car with a third place record of the four won THE championship? It's hard to get my mind around. The racing is fantastic IMO, but the win and you are in points system leaves much to be desired.
 
I'm torn on the whole deal anymore, as much as I want legitimacy for the championship standings over 36 races and we'd be having a great battle at the top, night's like last night are just downright cool and exciting for teams like the 14 and 21 daytona, it injects life and energy into those teams as well as a pay day and sponsorship spotlight for their sponsors, and I'm not sure it'd play out any other way if this system wasn't in place.

To go to a full season championship next year, NASCAR would be righting the ship so to speak on championship seasons that they've already altered via the 1 race championship. Not sure how that sits but at least it doesn't continue to happen. Current system everyone knows the deal going in.

At this point, I just sit back and enjoy the show because it ain't my show to begin with.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
But…The RULES! Everyone PLAYS BY THEM! (maybe it’s that the rules are artificially bad)
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Approx 80% of humanoids have to have and follow rules even bad or not that great ones. We aren't trying to overthrow the government here, just getting some conversation started about the current points system. BTW there is getting to be some conversations about the current system on social media quite a bit. I imagine it will increase if some of the drivers who were kicked out of the standings start racing hard the chosen few who are in the playoffs. I'm here for a little good trouble. I think Buescher and Busch are going to rub fenders with them. Gerbil Jeff will be hilarious if it happens.
 
There’s no reason for teams outside the top 16 to race playoff contenders differently than they do during the first 26 races.
 
StandOnIt said:
Approx 80% of humanoids have to have and follow rules even bad or not that great ones. We aren't trying to overthrow the government here, just getting some conversation started about the current points system. BTW there is getting to be some conversations about the current system on social media quite a bit. I imagine it will increase if some of the drivers who were kicked out of the standings start racing hard the chosen few who are in the playoffs. I'm here for a little good trouble. I think Buescher and Busch are going to rub fenders with them. Gerbil Jeff will be hilarious if it happens.
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yeah I have seen media members in the industry and even ex drivers on twitter be more willing to discuss the system this year I've seen more than other years in the past. What was once "This is the way it is" is now more "well lets take a look at this", I dont think having conversations ways to maybe improve the system is a bad one to have. There's a problem when we've watched all the races this year and we all know the 32nd driver in points wasnt a playoff driver at any point in the year except when he won at Daytona. More power to him, congrats it was great to see him win.... is he a playoff driver with the eye test? No, no hes not.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
yeah I have seen media members in the industry and even ex drivers on twitter be more willing to discuss the system this year I've seen more than other years in the past. What was once "This is the way it is" is now more "well lets take a look at this", I dont think having conversations ways to maybe improve the system is a bad one to have. There's a problem when we've watched all the races this year and we all know the 32nd driver in points wasnt a playoff driver at any point in the year except when he won at Daytona. More power to him, congrats it was great to see him win.... is he a playoff driver with the eye test? No, no hes not.
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There is definitely an undercurrent starting to build. Burton isn't the only one either. But Burton's really shows how ridiculous it is. He is still like 32nd with a win lol. Just because a driver wins a race unless there are a decent number of top 5's and 10's they shouldn't be ranked higher than other drivers because of a win when they pull the switcheroo over to the fudged up playoff points system they have. They want us to ignore that sleight of hand.
 
The Nature Boy said:
Don’t forget the people declaring the championship illegitimate because they don’t like the format.
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see I would never say, believe or champion that theory. It's really ridiculous that is actually a thing you have people saying #NotMyChampion. Get a clue.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
see I would never say, believe or champion that theory. It's really ridiculous that is actually a thing you have people saying #NotMyChampion. Get a clue.
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Who in the hell is saying that lol. But when they have 4 cars running for the championship and the car with the third best record all year wins, you go ahead and drink the cool aid ok?
 
StandOnIt said:
Who in the hell is saying that lol. But when they have 4 cars running for the championship and the car with the third best record all year wins, you go ahead and drink the cool aid ok?
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Not saying you, I've just seen it bandied about on Twitter and other socials. This post seems you're really combative towards me when I've agreed with pretty much everything you've said going on 4 pages ago. I mean the likes to your posts from me and my replies to you wasn't a clear indication of that? I kind of think you're looking to spar on here just to spar at this point. I wasnt accusing you in my statement nor alluding to you, this isnt the only place I go to talk motorsports with other fans, however their kool aid is far more tasty and refreshing than what you're serving up.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Not saying you, I've just seen it bandied about on Twitter and other socials. This post seems you're really combative towards me when I've agreed with pretty much everything you've said going on 4 pages ago. I wasnt accusing you in my statement nor alluding to you, this isnt the only place I go to talk motorsports with other fans, however their kool aid is far more tasty and refreshing than what you're serving up.
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I asked who in the hell is saying that? I haven't heard or read anybody saying #notMyChampion. This discussion here is about the in's and out's of the current point system. We do have some here that want to talk about other things, but NotMyChampion isn't one of them hopefully.
 
StandOnIt said:
I asked who in the hell is saying that? I haven't heard or read anybody saying #notMyChampion. This discussion here is about the in's and out's of the current point system. We do have some here that want to talk about other things, but NotMyChampion isn't one of them hopefully.
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No lets hope it doesnt become a thing. Thats just crazy talk at that point.
 
Here is something terribly concerning. Nascar doesn't want any criticism from their teams/anybody it looks like.

 
DIDIT said:
Last year the Mariners won more games than the Twins, but the Twins made the playoffs and the Mariners stayed home. Injustice, just not fair...Hopefully MLB will address this soon.
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To be fair, the Mariners were not in 34th, Burton was in 34th, no one in any sport that low in the standings should make the playoffs.
 
StandOnIt said:
Here is something terribly concerning. Nascar doesn't want any criticism from their teams/anybody it looks like.
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Been like that for quite a while. Anyone that speaks in any negative tone about the format or cars gets heavily fined or even suspended. It's their playground, either like it or leave is their attitude.
 
SeventyGTX said:
Been like that for quite a while. Anyone that speaks in any negative tone about the format or cars gets heavily fined or even suspended. It's their playground, either like it or leave is their attitude.
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I don't remember any of that happening? Maybe you can jog my memory.
For sure this last go around they are trying to get the owners to sign a contract saying they won't disparage Nascar. That borders on censorship IMO. Welcome to Russia kind of actions. Sure people won't be falling out of 3 story windows, but they could end up in court for speaking their mind.
 
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