Enough Is Enough Full Season Championship.

The Nature Boy said:
NC State is a good example. You can also reference when UMBC (a 16 seed) beat Virginia (a 1 seed).

Funny how no one questions the legitimacy of the NCAA Champion.
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I always find trying to compare racing to stuff like football, baseball, basketball, etc weird. In those sports you need playoffs because in those you don't play everyone and its always one team vs another team. Racing, every team is on the track every week, so you get 36 weeks to see who the best of the best is. Football for example, the team you play in the Championship, you might not have played all season. Baseball you might have only played them like two series or so. Surely with college, with how many teams they are? Think that's why I think no one says anything about any of those.
 
I hate them playoffs!
Nascar needs an Enema to do some real Eliminations, before something snaps

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Blaze said:
I always find trying to compare racing to stuff like football, baseball, basketball, etc weird. In those sports you need playoffs because in those you don't play everyone and its always one team vs another team. Racing, every team is on the track every week, so you get 36 weeks to see who the best of the best is. Football for example, the team you play in the Championship, you might not have played all season. Baseball you might have only played them like two series or so. Surely with college, with how many teams they are? Think that's why I think no one says anything about any of those.
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And stick and ball playoff types are the reason Nascar has this mess we are discussing today and IMO Nascar's version is worse than any of the stick and ball stuff.
 
Blaze said:
I always find trying to compare racing to stuff like football, baseball, basketball, etc weird. In those sports you need playoffs because in those you don't play everyone and its always one team vs another team. Racing, every team is on the track every week, so you get 36 weeks to see who the best of the best is. Football for example, the team you play in the Championship, you might not have played all season. Baseball you might have only played them like two series or so. Surely with college, with how many teams they are? Think that's why I think no one says anything about any of those.
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One comparison is that the championship is based on a criteria that all competitors agreed upon. The other comparison is that both systems reward people/teams who get hot in the playoffs. I would argue that the NASCAR playoffs are fairer than most other postseason formats because of playoff points. If you don’t perform in the regular season, it’s an uphill slog to advance to the Champ 4.

I would prefer a full season format but acting like a championship isn’t legitimate is just silly.
 
For the record: There are some tweaks I would make to the playoffs. If it were truly up to me, we would go back to a full season format. However, I accept that we’re stuck with some kind of postseason format.

I just don’t like the juvenile attitude around the playoffs that a lot of fans have.
 
When you are kicking out a driver who was 11th in points and giving their spot to a driver who is in 32nd place and that is after after a win and nothing else, Something is seriously wrong. Some Nascar fans are never going to swallow that part.
 
The Nature Boy said:
One comparison is that the championship is based on a criteria that all competitors agreed upon. The other comparison is that both systems reward people/teams who get hot in the playoffs. I would argue that the NASCAR playoffs are fairer than most other postseason formats because of playoff points. If you don’t perform in the regular season, it’s an uphill slog to advance to the Champ 4.

I would prefer a full season format but acting like a championship isn’t legitimate is just silly.
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I never really argued if it was legitimate or not. Just that other sports need them, where NASCAR doesn't. If NASCAR wants to do playoffs, then maybe split up into two conferences and 3-4 Divisions. Then send like the Division Champions to the playoffs, then maybe 2-3 wildcards. I said before BY THE RULES then whoever gets in gets in and it's fair.
 
The Nature Boy said:
NC State is a good example. You can also reference when UMBC (a 16 seed) beat Virginia (a 1 seed).

Funny how no one questions the legitimacy of the NCAA Champion.
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The calculus in structuring a championship for a sport that has 360+ teams across 32 conference pretty much necessitates a field that big, unless you wanted to outright exclude half the country being represented like in football.

Also, it’s simply the single greatest annual sporting tournament tin the world, so most everyone involved is on board with the regular season not meaning so much. And it actually creates significant casual interest and commercial value beyond what the regular season does.
 
SeventyGTX said:
Been like that for quite a while. Anyone that speaks in any negative tone about the format or cars gets heavily fined or even suspended. It's their playground, either like it or leave is their attitude.
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No national sport should be owned by a family and subject to basically no outside review. Can’t believe it still exists in this structure to be honest. It’s odd. I like watching racing but every time I think of how it’s owned and operated…
 
Revman said:
Ten weeks to Phoenix. I can't wait.
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Just wish it was in Vegas or some other city that knew how to put on a real show. Phoenix manages to suck half the life out of this amazing race by just not putting much into it. Track aside…they could do so much better.
 
RaceCritter said:
Just wish it was in Vegas or some other city that knew how to put on a real show. Phoenix manages to suck half the life out of this amazing race by just not putting much into it. Track aside…they could do so much better.
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I feel like the atmosphere is incredible.
 
I’ve been multiple times to both Phoenix s d Vegas including the Championship and while I somewhat prefer the track at Phoenix I really feel Vegas puts on the better show. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
RaceCritter said:
I’ve been multiple times to both Phoenix s d Vegas including the Championship and while I somewhat prefer the track at Phoenix I really feel Vegas puts on the better show. 🤷🏻‍♂️
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Yeah, but NASCAR owns Phoenix, and SMI owns Vegas, so you know, who cares if Vegas is obviously a better and more interesting place for a finale? Boy, did I ever wind up supporting your larger point in this thread. LOL
 
Blaze said:
I never really argued if it was legitimate or not. Just that other sports need them, where NASCAR doesn't. If NASCAR wants to do playoffs, then maybe split up into two conferences and 3-4 Divisions. Then send like the Division Champions to the playoffs, then maybe 2-3 wildcards. I said before BY THE RULES then whoever gets in gets in and it's fair.
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We're all Americans here and so we all associate sports with some sort of "playoffs" and "postseason". There's no playoffs to decide who wins any European national championship in soccer. The reason we have playoff systems is because MLB was created out of two separate leagues who had to have a championship game; NFL/AFL wound up doing the same thing. Everything here was inspired by baseball having Pennant battles followed by the World Series and expanded on because TV networks appreciated the ratings. NASCAR just kinda mushed the concept into a preexisting framework of races. It would be one thing *to me* if *I* was getting some Busch Clash style sprint series from Nov-Dec to crown a champ, but *I'm* not. YMMV.
 
virtualbalboa said:
We're all Americans here and so we all associate sports with some sort of "playoffs" and "postseason". There's no playoffs to decide who wins any European national championship in soccer. The reason we have playoff systems is because MLB was created out of two separate leagues who had to have a championship game; NFL/AFL wound up doing the same thing. Everything here was inspired by baseball having Pennant battles followed by the World Series and expanded on because TV networks appreciated the ratings. NASCAR just kinda mushed the concept into a preexisting framework of races. It would be one thing *to me* if *I* was getting some Busch Clash style sprint series from Nov-Dec to crown a champ, but *I'm* not. YMMV.
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If you want to keep the playoffs so be it, just make it so a team in 34th doesn't get in.
 
virtualbalboa said:
We're all Americans here and so we all associate sports with some sort of "playoffs" and "postseason". There's no playoffs to decide who wins any European national championship in soccer. The reason we have playoff systems is because MLB was created out of two separate leagues who had to have a championship game; NFL/AFL wound up doing the same thing. Everything here was inspired by baseball having Pennant battles followed by the World Series and expanded on because TV networks appreciated the ratings. NASCAR just kinda mushed the concept into a preexisting framework of races. It would be one thing *to me* if *I* was getting some Busch Clash style sprint series from Nov-Dec to crown a champ, but *I'm* not. YMMV.
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I don't associate "playoffs" with racing. There isn't any racing series that I know that has a playoff system. One of the many reasons it doesn't work, is how stupid is that to "eliminate" drivers and teams and they are still racing a week later? I guess that is under the "Don't look ethyl" category. I have trouble with the every point matters deal also after watching drivers/teams who have earned high spots in the point system suddenly SHAZAM, their opportunity to finish any higher than 17th place is gone. Every point doesn't matter.
 
Hamlin mentioned going back to the top ten drivers. If I am not mistaken, isn't that where Newman almost won it to the horror of Nascar? In another year, didn't Carl Edwards get wrecked out and quit?
It's funny though, comparing the simpler version with Newman almost winning with all of the band aid changes made after that to the complicated mess we have today. 16 cars and the "win and you are in" jackpot SMH. .
I think going back to the 10 car championship Denny talks about is a moot point anyway. The media clown show circus is addicted and is doubling up with even more bells and whistles for next year. At any rate, dissatisfaction is growing with the state of affairs that Nascar and the media continues to promote instead of a good honest racing format.
 
StandOnIt said:
Hamlin mentioned going back to the top ten drivers. If I am not mistaken, isn't that where Newman almost won it to the horror of Nascar? In another year, didn't Carl Edwards get wrecked out and quit?
It's funny though, comparing the simpler version with Newman almost winning with all of the band aid changes made after that to the complicated mess we have today. 16 cars and the "win and you are in" jackpot SMH. .
I think going back to the 10 car championship Denny talks about is a moot point anyway. The media clown show circus is addicted and is doubling up with even more bells and whistles for next year. At any rate, dissatisfaction is growing with the state of affairs that Nascar and the media continues to promote instead of a good honest racing format.
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If you mean the year he almost won it by pointing his way to the championship, no. It’s been 16 drivers since this format came around in 2014. 2004 it started with 10, can’t remember what year it became 12, but those weren’t one with one race to crown a champion.
 
StandOnIt said:
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I’m a little surprised they even had this conversation on what’s essentially state media. Larry Mac didn’t seem too thrilled by it when he posed the question. I kinda get the impression that there’s more discussion about it than usual this season, and I wonder if there aren’t some discussions already ongoing about how they can tweak it again. I don’t think a full-season championship is returning anytime soon, but there isn’t really anything this particular ‘playoff’ format (2017-) does exceptionally well, although it makes regular season performance a bit more meaningful than in many iterations of the Chase.
 
It would be pretty simple if they just had to have a playoff would be to crown a regular season champion with ten races left to go. Then give everybody a clean slate and run the next ten races. The the driver who has the most points after the 10 playoff races is the Nascar Champion.
 
StandOnIt said:
I don't associate "playoffs" with racing. There isn't any racing series that I know that has a playoff system. One of the many reasons it doesn't work, is how stupid is that to "eliminate" drivers and teams and they are still racing a week later? I guess that is under the "Don't look ethyl" category. I have trouble with the every point matters deal also after watching drivers/teams who have earned high spots in the point system suddenly SHAZAM, their opportunity to finish any higher than 17th place is gone. Every point doesn't matter.
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What I'm saying here is that the concept of "playoffs" being a necessary thing for sports is primarily an American concept of sports, not a universal one. Yeah, the only series that run any kind of end of season playoff extravaganza are NASCAR's national touring series, the NHRA pro classes, and the Lucas Oil Late Model Series. There are also about 2 bajillion racing series in the world, and these three encompass the only three ranging from Finnish rallycross to Thai Sport Ute racing to do that. It is a jarring difference (and has innately led to so many other "innovations" like stage breaks due to how the playoffs and GWC have changed the racing itself) if you watch other things.
 
With all of this being said, is anybody as excited as I am for the start of all of this? Honest question.....Do the Playoffs ruin the season for some? Do you feel that strongly about this? For me, it's a game changer. Just like the post season in other sports, this feel different starting Sunday. Love this. So jacked.
 
Revman said:
With all of this being said, is anybody as excited as I am for the start of all of this? Honest question.....Do the Playoffs ruin the season for some? Do you feel that strongly about this? For me, it's a game changer. Just like the post season in other sports, this feel different starting Sunday. Love this. So jacked.
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I'll never be on board with the playoffs, but no, it doesn't ruin anything for me. Although the championship will never mean as much as it did in the Winston Cup days, IMO.

I still continue to watch, and enjoy it for what it is.
 
I am more bummed the season is over myself. Every since they have had this latest playoff system they have pretty much slaughtered the way to access the record of a driver. It's impossible to compare a modern driver's record to drivers that ran under entirely different points system(s). They don't win the title fair and square on points, they win by beating 3 other cars in one race. Who does that? Track and field?
 
I like the playoffs, I just think the win and your in needs to be dropped or at least have it that you have to be in the top 25 to qualify for them. Even better would be get rid of win and your in and give a larger points bonus for winning a race.
 
I like the playoffs, I like the win and your in, I like the win and you advance to the next round, I even have come to like stages...I don't like cautions with two laps to go and the inevitable demo derby OT...and maybe the most ridiculous of all is the two hour pre-race only to be followed up with a driver interview during the pace laps. Life is tough sometimes.
 
Blaze said:
I always find trying to compare racing to stuff like football, baseball, basketball, etc weird. In those sports you need playoffs because in those you don't play everyone and its always one team vs another team. Racing, every team is on the track every week, so you get 36 weeks to see who the best of the best is. Football for example, the team you play in the Championship, you might not have played all season. Baseball you might have only played them like two series or so. Surely with college, with how many teams they are? Think that's why I think no one says anything about any of those.
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This is what NASCAR should be looking to highlight as what sets them apart from every other sport imo. Embrace being different.
 
NASCAR should try the full season championship format in the Xfinity series and see how it goes. They have nothing to lose.

I personally just enjoy watching the races, everyone plays by the same rules so there's no real advantage for anyone.
 
I was a young kid and can remember the season champion being wrapped up
with 2 or 3 races to go. Thats when I quit watching for the year. I seem to recall
some of the teams using the rest of the season to test for next year.

I like game 7's. Entertainment value is higher.
 
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