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Would they be blocked if they were being sold to teams other than 23X1 and FRM?It's already happening to a certain extent. SHR's Charter sales have been blocked.
Would they be blocked if they were being sold to teams other than 23X1 and FRM?It's already happening to a certain extent. SHR's Charter sales have been blocked.
I believe as it stands NASCAR has to approve the sale of their charters.Would they be blocked if they were being sold to teams other than 23X1 and FRM?
The win and you are in, points champion, the whole ball of wax applies. But they aren't going to get charter money unless they can get an injunction.
Attempt to qualify. To the rear with a backup.Imagine if they win a race and get in then fail to qualify for a playoff race.
Oh but it does.Correct. Doesn’t answer the question.
Okay, why that way instead of teams having direct ownership and control of sales / transfer?Charter trading should be managed from within. That when a Charter is given up. It should go back to NASCAR, and NASCAR or an independent group manage the sale and transfer of each Charter.
Quoting from NASCAR's response to 23FR's injunction request:Filed response to preliminary injunction motion.
Interesting.Second, Plaintiffs’ demand for a 2025 Charter contradicts their Complaint, which calls the Charter anticompetitive. This defies Fourth Circuit precedent, which firmly establishes that claiming a contract “violates the Sherman Act cannot, as a matter of law, support an injunction requiring [the defendant] to remain involuntarily in a contractual business relationship with [the plaintiff].”
That would seem to be statistically unlikely. Only eight races in the 2022-24 seasons have had full 40-car fields. (Six of those eight races were at Daytona or Talladega.) Only the three D500s had more than 40 entries; two cars went home in each of those. Indeed, in '22 and '23, the D500s were the only races with 40 cars. While there were six full-field races this year so far, that's skewed slightly by the entry of part-timer SVG in selected races.Imagine if they win a race and get in then fail to qualify for a playoff race.
I think some people are going to be sorry for their actions or lack thereof.
This is going to be the ultimate in court battles.
Denny was already complaining that he wasn't making enough money being a team owner. I wonder what he looks like when he sees his lawyer's bill.I wonder if Denny will give his ride up to the 23X1 driver who gets lost in the court battles??
I don't think any of this is really any of Dennis's money to begin with.Denny was already complaining that he wasn't making enough money being a team owner. I wonder what he looks like when he sees his lawyer's bill.
I didn't care to join the earlier conversation when people were saying it wasn't anybodies money. Unless you have a corporation with stockholders it's your money. You can have multiple LLC's but if it is only you, it's your money.I don't think any of this is really any of Dennis's money to begin with.
He's come out and said MJ is the money manI didn't care to join the earlier conversation when people were saying it wasn't anybodies money. Unless you have a corporation with stockholders it's your money. You can have multiple LLC's but if it is only you, it's your money.
It is important to a point when bills need to be paid, but hearing Hamlin doesn't have any skin in the deal is pure B.S.Hamlin is obviously one of 3 shareholders, 2 of whom are in a minority position to Jordan’s share.
None of this is relevant to the matters at hand.
Denny definitely has money in the team, and will be financially affected by the outcome. MJ may be paying all the legal bills himself. Regardless, funding isn't likely to be an issue.It is important to a point when bills need to be paid, but hearing Hamlin doesn't have any skin in the deal is pure B.S.
It's an issue. When you have the Front Row owner Jenkins saying he might not make it a full season, it's an issue. When you have Hamlin saying he couldn't believe how little he was making from owning a team, it's an issue.Denny definitely has money in the team, and will be financially affected by the outcome. MJ may be paying all the legal bills himself. Regardless, funding isn't likely to be an issue.
When did Jenkins say that?
My apologies for not making myself clear. I meant funding for the lawsuit would not be an issue.It's an issue. When you have the Front Row owner Jenkins saying he might not make it a full season, it's an issue. When you have Hamlin saying he couldn't believe how little he was making from owning a team, it's an issue.
I mean, even if I didn't actually know these people, why would anyone assume otherwise? You'd have to be dense just to ignore the sheer logic of it. If your neighbor is willing to spend whatever it takes to fight your county over elevated property taxes and unfair land ownership issues, you can still be "fine" paying the taxes and living on the land you may or may not actually own, but trust me...you won't just be rooting for your neighbor to win, you'd be helping them how you can.
I'm not sure how the other owners feel has any relevance to the lawsuit though.
They already voluntarily entered into contract with nascar. Now it's up to the legal system to determine if nascar is in any way acting outside the law.
IMO they're not and I'll stand by that. It's a private company and no one is forced to compete and they're definitely not forced to compete without compensation. Teams are allowed to leave at any time.
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If any or all of them are called to testify, what they have to say and provide evidence of will be more than relevant.
Discovery is yet to occur. No evidence of any kind has been presented to the court or to the public.
It isn’t possible to conclude their guilt or innocence without it … as you correctly state above “it’s up to the legal system to determine if NASCARi is in any way acting outside the law.”
If you were in the jury pool, you wouldn’t make it past the first examination question. The position you’re standing by is automatically disqualifying.
The first problem with that is that the team owners wouldn't be testifying against Uncle Sugar in a court of law, but against a group in which you signed an agreement with for 7 years if you are one of the 13 owners. Those same people can make your life miserable getting thru inspections, car tear downs, fines/penalties, missed business opportunities, stolen sponsorships etc. They made Hendrick racing an example over the hood louvers, don't think they can't do that to anybody else. They can cost a team millions with a swipe of the pen legally.I mean, even if I didn't actually know these people, why would anyone assume otherwise? You'd have to be dense just to ignore the sheer logic of it. If your neighbor is willing to spend whatever it takes to fight your county over elevated property taxes and unfair land ownership issues, you can still be "fine" paying the taxes and living on the land you may or may not actually own, but trust me...you won't just be rooting for your neighbor to win, you'd be helping them how you can.
Making someone’s life hell because they testify against you seems pretty illegal. Are you saying NASCAR would commit illegal acts?The first problem with that is that the team owners wouldn't be testifying against Uncle Sugar in a court of law, but against a group in which you signed an agreement with for 7 years if you are one of the 13 owners. Those same people can make your life miserable getting thru inspections, car tear downs, fines/penalties, missed business opportunities, stolen sponsorships etc. They made Hendrick racing an example over the hood louvers, don't think they can't do that to anybody else. They can cost a team millions with a swipe of the pen legally.
Sounds like bullying.The first problem with that is that the team owners wouldn't be testifying against Uncle Sugar in a court of law, but against a group in which you signed an agreement with for 7 years if you are one of the 13 owners. Those same people can make your life miserable getting thru inspections, car tear downs, fines/penalties, missed business opportunities, stolen sponsorships etc. They made Hendrick racing an example over the hood louvers, don't think they can't do that to anybody else. They can cost a team millions with a swipe of the pen legally.
Prove it.Sounds like bullying.
Pretty sure Kessler has used that word a couple of times.
“Michael Jordan and the Michael Jordan of sports antitrust litigation—attorney Jeffrey Kessler—say in a new court filing that NASCAR and its CEO, James France, are acting like a “monopolistic bully” by attacking those daring “to question their authority.”Prove it.
Rhetoric, nothing more. What they can or can not prove is another story. BTW they don't award damages for somebody saying they are a bully.“Michael Jordan and the Michael Jordan of sports antitrust litigation—attorney Jeffrey Kessler—say in a new court filing that NASCAR and its CEO, James France, are acting like a “monopolistic bully” by attacking those daring “to question their authority.”
Michael Jordan, NASCAR Escalate Feud With Antitrust Briefs
The antitrust battle between 23XI Racing, which Michael Jordan co-owns, and Front Row Motorsports and NASCAR continues in federal court.www.sportico.com
“The France family and NASCAR are monopolistic bullies. And bullies will continue to impose their will to hurt others until their targets stand up and refuse to be victims. That moment has arrived.”
If they would do that (cough,cough), then what else would they do and how far would they go.Making someone’s life hell because they testify against you seems pretty illegal. Are you saying NASCAR would commit illegal acts?
It’s hyperbole.Rhetoric, nothing more. What they can or can not prove is another story. BTW they don't award damages for somebody saying they are a bully.
As you point out, Nascar could make life pretty Hell-ish for any team they choose to target, and that team would find it difficult or impossible to "prove it" to gain legal relief. So let me ask you, Brother SOI... why do you choose to throw your total, all in support in favor of the outfit that can (and has in the past) acted that way In order to impose its will on a Race Team. Why do you choose to support Nascar and heap your disdain on the Racers in this equation? I'm genuinely curious about that.Prove it.