23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

LewTheShoe said:
As you point out, Nascar could make life pretty Hell-ish for any team they choose to target, and that team would find it difficult or impossible to "prove it" to gain legal relief. So let me ask you, Brother SOI... why do you choose to throw your total, all in support in favor of the outfit that can (and has in the past) acted that way In order to impose its will on a Race Team. Why do you choose to support Nascar and heap your disdain on the Racers in this equation? I'm genuinely curious about that.
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Well, I look at all of the jets, the hundreds of employees, the mansions the drivers live in and the lifestyles that Nascar has provided for the families. Nascar started out on a beach at Daytona, they built most of the fields of dreams that are raced on unlike outside billionaires who soak the taxpayers to build their stick and ball stadiums. I am proud to be a life time fan. Like Larry Mac, I don't appreciate a newcomer coming in and saying what is fair or not. I don't appreciate what it is doing for the sport although publicity of any kind is publicity. I think many of the so called Nascar fans are jealous of the success that Nascar has had. I'm not one of them.

Now it is your turn, just why do you think these two organizations merit more money than their contract provided, and why are they trying to bring that about by going around the issue which is the contract and trying to prove a meritless anti trust suit?
 
StandOnIt said:
Well, I look at all of the jets, the hundreds of employees, the mansions the drivers live in and the lifestyles that Nascar has provided for the families. Nascar started out on a beach at Daytona, they built most of the fields of dreams that are raced on unlike outside billionaires who soak the taxpayers to build their stick and ball stadiums. I am proud to be a life time fan. Like Larry Mac, I don't appreciate a newcomer coming in and saying what is fair or not. I don't appreciate what it is doing for the sport although publicity of any kind is publicity. I think many of the so called Nascar fans are jealous of the success that Nascar has had. I'm not one of them.

Now it is your turn, just why do you think these two organizations merit more money than their contract provided, and why are they trying to bring that about by going around the issue which is the contract and trying to prove a meritless anti trust suit?
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The current generation of NASCAR built none of NASCAR. They changed so much that the sport is hardly recognizable, as it were; spec car, goofy stickball playoffs, eliminations...I'm sure this isn't what big Bill imagined. The lawsuit will continue to draw interest as it progresses.
 
BobbyFord said:
The current generation of NASCAR built none of NASCAR. They changed so much that the sport is hardly recognizable, as it were; spec car, goofy stickball playoffs, eliminations...I'm sure this isn't what big Bill imagined. The lawsuit will continue to draw interest as it progresses.
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I didn't ask for your opinion, yours is a broken record. It's complain complain complain
 
Has there ever been a defendant’s official response to any civil lawsuit, antitrust or otherwise, that didn’t include the words meritless or baseless, or both, in its first paragraph?

LOL
 
gnomesayin said:
You were fantasizing several days ago that the other team owners were going to be "star witnesses for NASCAR".
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You are confused. This was in answer to team owners getting up on the stand for 23XI and Jenkins.
I personally will be surprised if any owners for any side are needed to testify.
 
BobbyFord said:
I'm sure this isn't what big Bill imagined.
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Big Bill had some point systems that makes the playoffs look straight forward. He also presided over an active union busting effort.

He built the weird as **** governing structure where one family has a totalitarian hold on a major sporting body.
 
The Nature Boy said:
Big Bill had some point systems that makes the playoffs look straight forward. He also presided over an active union busting effort.

He built the weird as **** governing structure where one family has a totalitarian hold on a major sporting body.
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what sporting body, USAC, F-1, Indycar, ARCA, World of Outlaws, High Limit? All of those are totalitarian holds also? I'd call them businesses. High Limit and WoO are the only ones that you can race the same car for both.
 
StandOnIt said:
You are confused. This was in answer to team owners getting up on the stand for 23XI and Jenkins.

I personally will be surprised if any owners for any side are needed to testify.
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I agree, as I believe it is unlikely that the case proceeds to trial rather than reaching a settlement. However, this is not what you stated when you were positing that other teams could be star witnesses for the defendants to discredit the plaintiff's claims, which was absurd:

StandOnIt said:
We'll see about that if other team owners are star witnesses for Nascar and they are able to help prove that their relation with Nascar is contractual.
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It should go without saying that what follows is my opinion. IMO, you have badly misjudged the nature and scope of the dispute here. You have continued to operate under the misconception that two greedy malcontent teams have gone rogue against the wishes of the other team owners. That isn't what is happening at all. The sooner you recalibrate to understand that this is about team owners vs. the France family, not Hamlin and Jordan vs. the entirety of NASCAR, the better.

I fear instead that as this becomes clearer than day, those with their heels dug in to defend the France family's honor and authority will instead pivot to smearing all of the team owners across the board.
 
BobbyFord said:
Because NASCAR will submit before the truth (fine print) is known?
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You aren't keeping up. The injunction is for the two outlier teams trying to get their charters restored, The ones that they said they didn't need and they would race without them...hmmm guess not.
 
gnomesayin said:
I agree, as I believe it is unlikely that the case proceeds to trial rather than reaching a settlement. However, this is not what you stated when you were positing that other teams could be star witnesses for the defendants to discredit the plaintiff's claims, which was absurd:



It should go without saying that what follows is my opinion. IMO, you have badly misjudged the nature and scope of the dispute here. You have continued to operate under the misconception that two greedy malcontent teams have gone rogue against the wishes of the other team owners. That isn't what is happening at all. The sooner you recalibrate to understand that this is about team owners vs. the France family, not Hamlin and Jordan vs. the entirety of NASCAR, the better.

I fear instead that as this becomes clearer than day, those with their heels dug in to defend the France family's honor and authority will instead pivot to smearing all of the team owners across the board.
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If you had any proof of that you may be on to something. But as it stands there are just the two teams requesting an injunction trying to get their charter rights restored on the 4th.
 
I thought Nascar would give them their charters back while they sorted everything out but that isn't the case. They say if they lose, they will have to re adjust everything then. They are playing hardball. I think that gets decided by a judge on the 4th.
Hell, I could be mistaken and they call witnesses, but I don't think they will for an injunction about the contract.
 
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