23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

Conover said:
NASCAR wins, they aren’t returning the charters to those teams next year, as the plan is set for 32 chartered teams. Could they allow those teams charters in the future after settlement (or if they win)? They might. Or they might entertain a couple of new teams willing to field a NEW MANUFACTURER into the series. My guess is a settlement ultimately is reached that gets those back into these teams hands, with some caveats, and knowledge that they are not owned by the teams.
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there are all ready 4 charters set a side for a new manufacturer
 
gnomesayin said:
That has not been my point. I said that NASCAR's ownership group, which is the France family, is the only entity that stands to lose in any significant fashion if 23XI and FRM prevail.
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My apologies. I read this far,
It really is only the ownership structure of NASCAR itself that is under threat ...
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and didn't finish your sentence.

However, I still maintain losing this suit will change far less in the lives of the Frances* as compared to the behaviors of NASCAR, for reasons I questioned in post #1429

*Season one of 'The Lives of the Frances' streaming now on Amazon Prime.
 
I hate that this is happening, but really, what kind of an organization is NASCAR? Sign it, or you are screwed? There is a problem there. Rich guys gonna play rich guy games....and I just want to be able to drop my 5k to get to a race.....I am the last thing on their minds. This is why I choose to be OEM based. OEMs are here to sell cars. Spare me the bull**** that you can't buy a NASCAR at a dealership. It hasn't been that way for a million years. This is about getting excited about a brand, and having a place to express it. I love going to the Toyota Racing Experience at the track. I feel like I am part of something....and I feel like the MY OEM gives a **** because they want me to buy their ****. Real or imagined? Who gives a ****? This is the entertainment part of sport.
 
Revman said:
I hate that this is happening, but really, what kind of an organization is NASCAR? Sign it, or you are screwed? There is a problem there. Rich guys gonna play rich guy games....and I just want to be able to drop my 5k to get to a race.....I am the last thing on their minds. This is why I choose to be OEM based. OEMs are here to sell cars. Spare me the bull**** that you can't buy a NASCAR at a dealership. It hasn't been that way for a million years. This is about getting excited about a brand, and having a place to express it. I love going to the Toyota Racing Experience at the track. I feel like I am part of something....and I feel like the MY OEM gives a **** because they want me to buy their ****. Real or imagined? Who gives a ****? This is the entertainment part of sport.
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I think the same thing when I am at a car dealership. Did I buy a lemon? Am I getting screwed?
 
StandOnIt said:
I think the same thing when I am at a car dealership. Did I buy a lemon? Am I getting screwed?
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I've never had to think that. 1) I buy Toyota, 2) I have a 40 year relationship with my dealership.....and this is what is astonishing about NASCAR. If they had a relationship with their owners--the people making NASCAR money--this would be far different, wouldn't it? But they don't? Why? Because Big Bill said that none of them are bigger than NASCAR? I doubt that Big Bill would have invited MJ to the table. He's here now, but NASCAR rests on the same bull****. It might work. It might not. We should not be in this place. Inexcusable....and always remember that the fans who make ALL of this possible are simply collateral damage.
 
Revman said:
I've never had to think that. 1) I buy Toyota, 2) I have a 40 year relationship with my dealership.....and this is what is astonishing about NASCAR. If they had a relationship with their owners--the people making NASCAR money--this would be far different, wouldn't it? But they don't? Why? Because Big Bill said that none of them are bigger than NASCAR? I doubt that Big Bill would have invited MJ to the table. He's here now, but NASCAR rests on the same bull****. It might work. It might not. We should not be in this place. Inexcusable....and always remember that the fans who make ALL of this possible are simply collateral damage.
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Well, I made my point. When you sign a contract to buy a vehicle, you take on good faith that the vehicle is going to perform, be reliable and do what it is supposed to do.
The racing teams did the same thing. When nobody was racing during Covid, Nascar was...with empty stands.
 
Revman said:
This is about getting excited about a brand, and having a place to express it.
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You do you, Brother.

Me, I've never been excited by having a brand's logo on something they aren't selling, especially something that's not representative of what they actually are selling. It's like watching a winning driver sipping an exclusive Coca-Cola-branded 5-year-old bourbon in Victory Circle, knowing it has no connection to what I buy in Circle K. Nothing to be loyal to there; it's just a marketing tool.

Note that this is not a criticism specifically of Toyota, or Ford or Chevy. More power to them. Being in NASCAR obviously does some good for their sales but it isn't going to move me to purchase. I'll never be loyal to a car brand or even a model. Too much changes between my rare auto purchases for me to depend on continuity of quality across product lines. I'll do the research every time, regardless of what's already in the garage.
 
StandOnIt said:
Well, I made my point. When you sign a contract to buy a vehicle, you take on good faith that the vehicle is going to perform, be reliable and do what it is supposed to do.
The racing teams did the same thing. When nobody was racing during Covid, Nascar was...with empty stands.
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Your point is a stretch.....at best....but you go kid.
 
Revman said:
To me the brand represents a culture
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My attention to a brand's culture is inversely proportional to the product's price. When we get beyond a few hundred dollars, culture doesn't come into play at all for me.

For the record, I agree that Toyota builds excellent cars and SUVs; I haven't looked at trucks. One of each made our short list six years ago, and they'll probably still be worth considering next time we look.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
You do you, Brother.

Me, I've never been excited by having a brand's logo on something they aren't selling, especially something that's not representative of what they actually are selling. It's like watching a winning driver sipping an exclusive Coca-Cola-branded 5-year-old bourbon in Victory Circle, knowing it has no connection to what I buy in Circle K. Nothing to be loyal to there; it's just a marketing tool.

Note that this is not a criticism specifically of Toyota, or Ford or Chevy. More power to them. Being in NASCAR obviously does some good for their sales but it isn't going to move me to purchase. I'll never be loyal to a car brand or even a model. Too much changes between my rare auto purchases for me to depend on continuity of quality across product lines. I'll do the research every time, regardless of what's already in the garage.
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I’ve had fantastic ownership experiences with Toyota but after adding a Subaru to the fleet I made the switch to the quirky car brand. I did so because it was what was best for me.

To me all the cars are the same but just have different manufacturer’s decals on them. That may be incorrect but it’s my perception. They only way I’d ever feel part of a manufacturer would be if they were making monthly deposits in my checking account😀
 
Charlie Spencer said:
My attention to a brand's culture is inversely proportional to the product's price. When we get beyond a few hundred dollars, culture doesn't come into play at all for me.

For the record, I agree that Toyota builds excellent cars and SUVs; I haven't looked at trucks. One of each made our short list six years ago, and they'll probably still be worth considering next time we look.
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The culture thing escapes me but I think that has more to do with my age. I did throw out all my leisure suits and double knit clothing a few years back though.
 
Grew up at fathers used car lot/garage/body shop/salvage yard in the 70's. I mean from 70-80. Our mechanic at the time strongly rec Chevy for the motorheads because of interchangeability. So been driving mostly Chevy. Current vehicle is 1999 S10 4.3 Extended Cab 2wd. 298K miles. I'll drive it until the wheels fall off or gets wrecked. Zero interest in anything built last 10-15 years.

Was ASE Master Technician for 45 years. No problem keeping my old ride going. Worked at Ford Dealership 2002-2005 while driving my S10. They never said a word. If I were buying new, Yota or Honda. Very dependable.
 
Conover said:
No way for the plaintiff to spin this. Takes away their primary early phase strategy to go exploring for shiny objects. Any word on who the judge is in this case?
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“U.S. District Judge Frank D. Whitney and U.S. Magistrate Judge Susan C. Rodriguez for the Western District of North Carolina have been assigned to the case captioned as 2311 Racing LLC v. National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing LLC, 3:24-cv-00886.”

The injunction application hearing is scheduled for next Monday, Nov. 4th.
 
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aunty dive said:
“U.S. District Judge Frank D. Whitney and U.S. Magistrate Judge Susan C. Rodriguez for the Western District of North Carolina have been assigned to the case captioned as 2311 Racing LLC v. National Association for Stock Car Auto Racing LLC, 3:24-cv-00886.”

The injunction application hearing is scheduled for next Monday, Nov. 4th.
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At least there's not anything else happening next week.
 
Conover said:
No way for the plaintiff to spin this. Takes away their primary early phase strategy to go exploring for shiny objects. Any word on who the judge is in this case?
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Yeah you kind of get the feeling that they don't have a whole lot, "but if you let us dig around for a while I'm sure we can find something..."

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I didn’t say that.

Surely you understand that the injunction application decision is much more consequential.
 
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