23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

More importantly, the outcome of this trial is going to have zero affect on us as fans. Despite the fact that everyone who EAGERLY sided 120% with the teams seemed to think. Nothing about this is going to have any affect on the car, at track fan experience, stage cautions, playoffs, etc. Two sets of rich people end up fine, nothing improves for us. Big deal. I'm just happy it didn't end up worse for us like it could have.
 
DaleJrFan2003 said:
More importantly, the outcome of this trial is going to have zero affect on us as fans. Despite the fact that everyone who EAGERLY sided 120% with the teams seemed to think. Nothing about this is going to have any affect on the car, at track fan experience, stage cautions, playoffs, etc. Two sets of rich people end up fine, nothing improves for us. Big deal. I'm just happy it didn't end up worse for us like it could have.
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This lawsuit was a huge risk for the sport. I am happy that the charters are permanent. Without some kind of spending cap though, the funding structure of the sport is still broken. If a guy like Corey Heim can’t get a ride and move up because he doesn’t bring money, you know something’s wrong.
 
Naitch said:
This lawsuit was a huge risk for the sport. I am happy that the charters are permanent. Without some kind of spending cap though, the funding structure of the sport is still broken. If a guy like Corey Heim can’t get a ride and move up because he doesn’t bring money, you know something’s wrong.
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Well according to Denny if the teams got more money they can hire drivers based on talent and not money. Yet I'd be willing to bet Riley is in the car for 2026 instead of Corey Heim lol!
 
Yo boys, I posted this elsewhere, but while on the subject look at the lower left corner...and not the girl.

1765575270712.png
 
C'mon guys, it's 2025... not 1985.

NASCAR cup series racing is "premier stock car racing." It is not grass roots level racing, and I have no problem or complaints about that. There's a ton of grass roots racing around for folks who crave that, including NASCAR divisions other than the cup series, and most of us also have a short track or two nearby.

Cup teams have had investors for a long time. Childress has Chartwell. Roush has Fenway. Gibbs has Josh Harris. Etc.

Frankly, I'd tend to think the presence of investors would improve the prospects for highly talented young drivers over less talented pay drivers. No proof, just a hunch.

Incidentally, Jeff Gluck has posted an opinion piece on The Athletic calling for Jim France to step down and hand the reins to Ben Kennedy. And he says Ben would get expert support and guidance from the two Steves (Phelps and OD). Personally, I can't see Phelps surviving at NASCAR. I expect him to be gone before the Daytona 500. What do y'all think about NASCAR executive leadership going forward?

www.nytimes.com

NASCAR needs to move into the future. It’s time for CEO Jim France to step aside

France stepped in to carry on his family's legacy. But after this damaging lawsuit and trial, the sport needs change to move forward.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
How Long will it be until
Conover said:
Oh don’t worry…BIG spender Denny “BIG CHEESE BUSINESS GURU” Hamcrap has a bonanza spread laid out for him after this. No longer must he worry that his excesses can’t get covered by revenues. My bet is they throw another massive New Year’s party using 25% of the settlement, since “they take care of their people”……

Now, reality dose here folks….I’m glad this is over, I’m glad these teams are going to have a better position relative to revenue streams, and I’m even glad the employees at Cabal Central will continue to have their jobs in this sport. We all love racing, and I’m wanting the best for the NASCAR series. I continue to despise Hampuke and all the nut job self possessed garbage he brings to the table. I hope this doesn’t ultimately create a huge barrier to entry for future race teams due to charter cost. I also hope ALL TEAMS understand that this thing can slide backwards badly if they keep beating up on NASCAR and the France family. They deserve their lumps for making this worse, but everybody now has to kiss, make up, and get back in the station wagon. The sport of “premier stock car racing” has a lot of headwinds now and more coming. It’s going to be challenging to grow, and vital to stop the slide of fans and viewership. The next TV contract could be much lower relative to this one.
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Very well said. This will have a trickle down effect with potential sponsors going forward, Jordan has a massive ego, who can blame him but he is out of his "league" when it comes to this sport.
 
wi_racefan said:
Because they knew what would happen. They'd give up money and control, but the business model doesn't change. Its still an arms race, now with just richer people
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Well gee "if they knew what would happen", then they're pretty damn dumb for going to trial with it???

I mean what is this victim blaming the Teams for taking NASCAR to court when they were clearly in the wrong here??? What is this?

NASCAR's now the sympathetic figure because they finally got taken to task by somebody anybody with enough balls to stand up to them?

Naitch said:
This lawsuit was a huge risk for the sport. I am happy that the charters are permanent. Without some kind of spending cap though, the funding structure of the sport is still broken. If a guy like Corey Heim can’t get a ride and move up because he doesn’t bring money, you know something’s wrong.
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Well gee whiz guess they should have just signed the contract then and get run over in all negotiations.

Because how dare you put the sport at risk! when it's their own refusal to compromise yet now they compromise after being forced to. What is this???

And it wasn't a huge risk to 23XI FRM and Jordan and Hamlin??? They put their ass on the line, with no guarantee that nascar would eventually cave.

They could have been ousted from the sport stuck in appeals. With the silent backing of all the other owner's hoping they won the suit settled.

DaleJrFan2003 said:
More importantly, the outcome of this trial is going to have zero affect on us as fans. Despite the fact that everyone who EAGERLY sided 120% with the teams seemed to think. Nothing about this is going to have any affect on the car, at track fan experience, stage cautions, playoffs, etc. Two sets of rich people end up fine, nothing improves for us. Big deal. I'm just happy it didn't end up worse for us like it could have.
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The Teams make NASCAR. Not the other way around. And it was about time they got a bigger slice of the pie, it's key to their survival.

Regardless of how they use it or don't use it in profit margin, it's of better use in their hand's than in NASCAR's.

Without the Teams spending tens of millions on race cars it's just empty seats getting a sunburn on a quiet track.

This now has the potential to set off a cascade of changes that would end up directly effecting fan experience and quality of the product.

Is it guaranteed? No. But it has exposed and shown that NASCAR is in desperate need of new management despite their own stubbornness.




Take it easy on NASCAR? Okay sure right.

Who's fault is it for declining viewership and fan slide again? Who made the changes nobody asked for? Who won't make the changes everybody wants?

The first time in history somebody stands up to them and takes them down a notch.

Maybe a giant Thank You is in order to those that stuck their neck out on this.
 
I love reading all these backtracking death bed posts since the teams won. (with no possibility for appeal like some were sooooo sure was going to happen)
It's like a nonstop Dave Moody apology tour after NASCAR does something that he said would NEVER happen.
Shill on shillers. This makes my heart happy.
 
Old 97 said:
I love reading all these backtracking death bed posts since the teams won. (with no possibility for appeal like some were sooooo sure was going to happen)
It's like a nonstop Dave Moody apology tour after NASCAR does something that he said would NEVER happen.
Shill on shillers. This makes my heart happy.
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Wal-Mart has put the Nascar Kool-Aid on the clearence rack at 1/2 price.
 
Old 97 said:
I love reading all these backtracking death bed posts since the teams won. (with no possibility for appeal like some were sooooo sure was going to happen)
It's like a nonstop Dave Moody apology tour after NASCAR does something that he said would NEVER happen.
Shill on shillers. This makes my heart happy.
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Don't fret, there will still be plenty for the toxic's and complainers to complain about.
Many are saying the charters have doubled overnight. It will take groups of investors to start a team(s).
Nascar still owns the majority of the tracks/runs the show.
The Gen 7 cars stay.
Single source vendors stay.
5 strike veto instead of 3.
Maybe a little more $$ but FRM and others will still lose money.

If everything else fails, one can wish for the old days because they are gone without a trace.
 
I've read a couple dozen pages of this thread but not all 138 so please forgive me if that question has been answered already.
Can NASCAR still take charters away from teams after three seasons in the bottom 3 of the owners' standings?
 
donthaveanickname said:
I've read a couple dozen pages of this thread but not all 138 so please forgive me if that question has been answered already.
Can NASCAR still take charters away from teams after three seasons in the bottom 3 of the owners' standings?
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They can force a sale. Team would have at least a year to sale.
 
StandOnIt said:
Don't fret, there will still be plenty for the toxic's and complainers to complain about.
Many are saying the charters have doubled overnight. It will take groups of investors to start a team(s).
Nascar still owns the majority of the tracks/runs the show.
The Gen 7 cars stay.
Single source vendors stay.
5 strike veto instead of 3.
Maybe a little more $$ but FRM and others will still lose money.

If everything else fails, one can wish for the old days because they are gone without a trace.
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Well sh!t. There goes my plans. I was gonna buy one of those cut-rate pre-lawsuit charters and give it to Little Ralph and Kelley for Christmas.
 
Whizzer said:
And you're not at the scrub bird watching??
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That's why I didn't post that comment yesterday; I was on the road before 5 am for an 8-hour Big Day competition at Lake Apopka. 105 species for the group, 85 I saw personally, including 4 lifers. Friday was 4 hours at Ferndale with bro-in-law and nephew on their first organized bird walk. Today is an off day, then BIL and I have 6 hours at Lake Kissimmee on Monday. I probably would be out today but when you visit family, they expect to see you more than just coming in the door in the afternoon.
 
Spotter22 said:
Did they?
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The teams wanted something, and NASCAR was offering NOTHING, so it's pretty hard to frame this as a NASCAR win. Also, sometimes perception is more important than reality, and the perception among everyone but the most dedicated NASCAR homers, is that they did a terrible job defending themselves and folded like a cheap suit.
 
Old 97 said:
Well sh!t. There goes my plans. I was gonna buy one of those cut-rate pre-lawsuit charters and give it to Little Ralph and Kelley for Christmas.
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I think its out of his price range now, at least without investment from the outside.

Also Kelly is a smarter business person than to get involved in this mess. Without a spending cap the top series will always be very minimal profit at best. But hey you get to buy a 100 million dollar charter to scrape by!
 
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wi_racefan said:
I think its out of his price range now, at least without investment from the outside.

Also Kelly is a smarter business person than to get involved in this mess. Without a spending cap the top series will always be very minimal profit at best. But hey you get to buy a 100 million dollar charter to scrape by!
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Much like Hamlin with no source of income besides motorsports, Kelly ain't playing.
 
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