2015 NASCAR TAILSPINS

I think it has more to do with the fact that youngsters are not really interested in stock cars.

I dunno, I think @3wideinturn1 has a good point. Back in the 80s and 90s, my brother raced go-karts in local tracks and in regional racing series that follow the WKA rules. It was a weekend event for the whole family because it was an all-day thing. Hel, most time we'd go to the track at like 10 in the morning and didn't get home til midnight. During the time that my brother raced on the touring series, we would traverse all across the Southeast in my dad's single cab Dodge Ram with the trailer behind us with all of my brother's racing stuff.

In order for my brother to get his start in racing, my dad sold his 1972 Dodge Challenger, which was considered a classic car even back then, so he got top dollar for the car, and that gave my brother his start in go-kart racing. I'd hate to see what's the start-up cost would be today.

I do think credit should be given to companies like iRacing and PEAK Anti-Freeze. There is a K&N Racing Series (National Racing Series on iRacing) and if you win the Championship in Division 1 for a particular season, then you are invited out to a real life competition to try to become a K&N Driver for a real race team. There's also the fact that the 2013 NASCAR PEAK Anti-Freeze Series (powered by iRacing) Series did get some considerable notice from real life racing team after he won the Championship.

There is also a very small movement called GrassPass which promotes the idea of backyard kart racing, however the problem with that is 1) getting the land required for a race track 2) getting the kart count up and 3) getting everything organized, etc.

Racing is expensive, and it'll always be expensive and it'll always be time consuming. I'm sure even the weekend warrior in races like Hornet, U-CAR and Strictly Stock classes still spend every night in their garage preparing their vehicles for the next battle. It's not like you can just get a group of guys together and go out and race on a sunny afternoon.
 
I think it has more to do with the fact that youngsters are not really interested in stock cars.

I think some kids, especially young boys still have keen interest in cars in general. I don't think many kids have a very long attention span though. If you're a kid today, why would you be interested in NASCAR?

It's hard enough taking my kids to a 3 hour hockey game, but going to a NASCAR race on the weekend I would imagine be very trying as a parent. Every race I've gone to has been a blast for me but it also hasn't exactly been a family friendly atmosphere either. Lots of heavy drinking and swearing going on and that's not exactly the kind of thing I want to shell out hundreds of dollars for my family to experience.
 
I'm a mechanic by trade, even though that isn't what I do for a living anymore. I have hot rods, Harley...I weld, metal fab. I rebuild engines, auto & stick trans, axles, brakes, suspension, etc. My kid cannot check his own oil, nor does he want to learn how.
 
I have two sisters and at least 30 cousins. None of their kids are NASCAR fans, with the exception of my nephew, Robert; he will watch a race if it's on but he's only ever been to a race with us once (because I bought tickets for him and his wife.)
 
I'm a mechanic by trade, even though that isn't what I do for a living anymore. I have hot rods, Harley...I weld, metal fab. I rebuild engines, auto & stick trans, axles, brakes, suspension, etc. My kid cannot check his own oil, nor does he want to learn how.

Well that's a shame, I love changing my own oil and I helped my dad put together his Factory Five Cobra. If I had any mechanical skills beyond basic maintenance, I could see myself racing in a local track racing series that at least allow you to do some Chassis set-up. Not really a fan of strictly stock because I like the idea of adjusting the car to your driving style, not the other way around.
 
I think that , if you took a poll , everyone on this board can live with the original chase , in it's original set up . It really just enhanced the end of the season and got everyone talking about the 10th to 12 th place drivers who are normally forgotten . This new double secret knockout elimination round does nothing but eliminate the chances of a Jimmie Johnson and enhance the chances of an AJ Almendinger . I just don't get that crap. And please , don't give me that stupid crap about making the drivers 'try harder' . Anyone who thinks they weren't already trying as hard as they could isn't a Nascar fan , IMO.
That's kinda where I'm at, I never really minded the chase until this last version. The fact that a driver can win 35 of 36 races and finish 4th in points pretty much tells you all you need to know about how much sense the format makes. But as I said in an earlier post, I don't think this format is here to stay. So I guess I'll just enjoy the racing in the meantime and accept whatever random champion the format generates over the next few years.
 
The truth is, the drivers did not "try as hard as they possibly could" under the old system. Points mattered way too much to take the risks they're willing to take today. There are so many more reasons now to go checkers/wreckers. Was not the case under the old format. Drivers who say "we always raced for the win!" don't say that away from cameras.
 
The truth is, the drivers did not "try as hard as they possibly could" under the old system. Points mattered way too much to take the risks they're willing to take today. There are so many more reasons now to go checkers/wreckers. Was not the case under the old format. Drivers who say "we always raced for the win!" don't say that away from cameras.

There are so many reasons not to go checkers/wreckers until the final laps. Number one being ,you cannot win on any previous lap . Owners and sponsors want to be in the race to challange for TV time in the final laps . When owners hire a driver , they do not hire him to wreck equipment .Getting the absolute best out of the equipment that you have is incredibly important . Even the great Richard Petty , Dale Earnhardt Sr., and Jimmie Johnson were unable to win every week because there was another car on track that was better on the day. Could they have tried harder and won ? No
 
There are so many reasons not to go checkers/wreckers until the final laps. Number one being ,you cannot win on any previous lap . Owners and sponsors want to be in the race to challange for TV time in the final laps . When owners hire a driver , they do not hire him to wreck equipment .Getting the absolute best out of the equipment that you have is incredibly important . Even the great Richard Petty , Dale Earnhardt Sr., and Jimmie Johnson were unable to win every week because there was another car on track that was better on the day. Could they have tried harder and won ? No

This assumes very little of driver skill. So many times, "trying harder" will result in taking risks to try and get an advantage over a car that might be faster that day...and the question the drivers ask themselves, is it worth the risk? Last season, yes. The seasons prior, no. Also, you know better than me that in order to have a shot at the win, you need to get yourself up front (many times, sooner rather than later.) That also comes with some risks drivers are more willing to take now. All I can say is that this is what these guys have told me.

Look at it this way: wrecking doesn't mean NEARLY as much now as it used to. That, almost by definition, allows drivers to try harder. (No owner is going to punish a driver for wrecking the car trying to make a move on a "faster" car. At least none of the big team owners.)
 
The problem is that there's absolutely no youth movement in the sport. The average age demographic gets older by roughly half a year, every year. But every time you make a change to try and attract the youth movement, the older folks get pissed. It's a very, very, very difficult position for NASCAR to be in. This sport will probably die with its fan base. Literally. Of course, none of them would care. They'd sooner spend their last 15-20 years watching the sport they grew up with, even if it died with them.

Old timers bltch about everything not only NASCAR. There is no question that the younger fan isn't being attracted when they have mixed martial arts fights, extreme snow sports and other newer entertainment that the younger folks can actually get geared up and participate. Ain't going to be able to afford to build much of any type race car working for 7-11.
 
I would tell you about a driver but I already got heck for saying something negative about him.. But I will Say this, when drivers admit they are cruising at the back and just doing enough to not lose the draft, I don't call that racing or going all out. I would describe it as a strategy to not get my car damaged and maybe luck into a win at the end. Junior himself said he wasn't going to race that way ever again.
Yeah, but that sounds like you're talking about plate tracks. They can't go all out; if they get too far ahead the pack just sucks them back up. I don't call that racing either, but I dislike plate racing for more reasons than just that one.
 
I ranted on this board for months on the absolute necessity of Travis Pastrana having success in Nascar . Sadly , a huge missed opportunity . Ricky Carmichael too . These names would have meant a heck of a lot more than any of those coming up today.
There may have been missed opportunities, but I'm sure you're not suggesting they should have been given free passes. Maybe they just didn't have the talent necessary to compete in stock cars. I don't recall ever seeing a sponsor on Pastrana's car, and even a mid-pack talent like Danica can round one of those up.
 
The majority of younger people do not care about stock car racing. They never will, regardless of any attempted gimmick.
I took my son to Fontana and to LVMS. He fell asleep in the grandstands at both races.

That's interesting. My fondest memory of the last two Fontana races was my son screaming in my hear, "He's coming Dad! Kyle is still in this! Here he comes!!!!" after I slammed my FanVision down because I thought we had lost. Anything but asleep. My son also watches the lap times and gaps while I fume and pout, or conversely get too ****y. BobbyFord--I am not saying that you do not do this--but we need to quit trying to make this sport into something it is not, and teach the kids how they should appreciate it. That "how" has nothing to do with Chases or points. It has to do with set ups, aero, tires, pits, drivers, engineering, etc. That takes time. Spend it. My kid is 17, and the only time during the year he talks to me is when we go to Fontana. LOL. He gets it. BTW--I do not buy for one second that kids don't have the attention span to watch races. They need somebody there to teach them. This society does not support that as we are so busy. Slow down and prioritize.
 
As someone relatively new to the sport (last 5 years) my two biggest takeaways of the fan base are 1) nicer than any of the other major sports fan bases and 2) they complain about everything.

The problem is that there's absolutely no youth movement in the sport. The average age demographic gets older by roughly half a year, every year. But every time you make a change to try and attract the youth movement, the older folks get pissed. It's a very, very, very difficult position for NASCAR to be in. This sport will probably die with its fan base. Literally. Of course, none of them would care. They'd sooner spend their last 15-20 years watching the sport they grew up with, even if it died with them.


Allenbaba, you nailed the fan base observation. I still marvel over the kindness of my fellow fans when I go to a race. Doesn't matter who you like or hate, but when the checkers fall, it's high fives and handshakes all around. Greatest damn fans anywhere. NOTHING "ugly" I have ever seen at a race is 1/10 of what I have seen at College or Pro Football games, hoops, or baseball. My theory is that part of it is because you can't hear anybody well enough to be offended.

NASCAR fans do bitch. Unprecedented passion is the cause. At the heart of every bitch IMO is the disappointment that their driver, team, and/or manufacturer lost. 48 fans don't hate the Chase when they win it. 4 fans don't hate the Chase. Unlike other sports, we have 41 drivers, several teams, and three manufacturers to split our allegiance. This means that most people will be pissed most of the time. There is no way to get around that with passionate people.

Don't know about the youth situation. These drivers are young enough to attract the younger set. I think the real story is that NASCAR is still somewhat regional. When I tell people that I am heading to a NASCAR race out here in Liberal Land, Pacific Northwest, I get laughed at every time. Seriously. So, I am thinking that there is a sizable part of this country who considers to unfashionable to be a NASCAR fan. Toyota has changed some of that. Sprint has changed some of that. What I am getting at is that the sponsorships so hard to come by now are really a key. Red Bull fans were a bit different than your normal NASCAR set. Problem was they were getting their asses kicked. I believe that the way to the younger crowd is in the sponsorships. Those sponsors--although changing--aren't looking at NASCAR as a way to get to the younger folks just yet.
 
The truth is, the drivers did not "try as hard as they possibly could" under the old system. Points mattered way too much to take the risks they're willing to take today. There are so many more reasons now to go checkers/wreckers. Was not the case under the old format. Drivers who say "we always raced for the win!" don't say that away from cameras.

I'm sorry to be incesitive but this coming from a guy who admittely have said over and over that he does not know/doesn't care about NASCAR is and only in it for the aspect of being someone's lap dog, doesn't really say much about your take on how the sport was before all the points changes and what not. Did you watch NASCAR pre 2012 even to make such bold claim that these guys weren't trying as hard as they possibly could?"

You know alot for someone who didn't even know about NASCAR till a few years ago.
 
I'll say one last thing on this topic , then shoot me . A driver 25th in points ,slows down under green to conserve fuel in what turns out to be a fuel mileage race . He thereby takes the win , giving him a golden ticket to the chase and, with a break or two , the chance at the National Championship . Great thing / bad thing ?
I call it playing the cards your dealt to get the best finish possible.
 
I am on BobbyFord's line of thought on this. I love racing, but NASCAR has worked to engineer it into a production in order to go after people that just aren't into racing. They've turned a steak into hamburger and are trying to make it attractive to vegetarians.

Those of us looking for a steak will satisfy the desire somewhere else and occasionally stop by to have the burger.
 
The reason that we're passionate and complaining is because we are seeing our sport being manipulated and destroyed.
We have no control over the decisions being made but we do have a choice on whether or not we will support those decisions by buying tickets, tuning in for a race or buying driver merchandise.
I'm not buying any more merchandise, 2015 will be the last year I go to a NASCAR race and I'm not going to go out of my way to watch a race or set my DVR. Because I don't GAF who the next Cup Champion is. First time in my life that I've ever felt that way about a sport I really used to love.
 
I'm sorry to be incesitive but this coming from a guy who admittely have said over and over that he does not know/doesn't care about NASCAR is and only in it for the aspect of being someone's lap dog, doesn't really say much about your take on how the sport was before all the points changes and what not. Did you watch NASCAR pre 2012 even to make such bold claim that these guys weren't trying as hard as they possibly could?"

You know alot for someone who didn't even know about NASCAR till a few years ago.
Not sure why I'm about to bother with you, because you respond like this a lot to me, and I usually ignore it. But whatever, my wife and kids are all asleep, so I'll dignify it. Correct, NASCAR was never on my radar as kid. Or even young adult. I would always watch the Daytona 500 for the same reason I watch the Kentucky Derby (couldn't care less about horse racing), Indy 500 (couldn't care less about Indy Car) or Olympic Figure Skating (really couldn't care less) because I love sports. But yeah, I didn't know much about NASCAR.

Went to my first NASCAR race about 5 years ago because one of my clients wanted to get into the sport. I met many teams and owners because they were pitching themselves to me in order to secure my client's $$ (I'm a partner of an ad agency). I chose Furniture Row Racing when Regan was driving. I became very close to the team that season. A few of them would probably be at my wedding today if my wife and I were doing it for the first time (including GM Joe Garone and owner Barney Visser) They're now close friends of mine. Through them, and others on the team, I met many other teams and drivers. Halfway through that first season, Furniture Row hired my firm to help with their marketing and sponsorships. They loved what we were doing for my client's activation. We did many things no other team had done...mostly because we had no preconceived ideas of how to market to NASCAR fans, and the landscape was changing (online, smart phones, digital, etc). Sometimes, no experience can be a plus. We opened some eyes. The next season, two other drivers/teams (including Kurt who came to the 78 - a decision that wasn't easy for Barney, and that I was very close to in terms of making sense of it for him). Within the last two seasons, two more drivers and teams hired us. So...we now help 4 different drivers & teams market their sponsors to the masses.

Still...NASCAR related accounts remain less than 5% of my company's revenue. We're a traditional ad agency. Not a sports marketing firm, or sponsorship group, or PR agency. We're a total anomaly in NASCAR. You can continue to condescend what I do by calling me a "lapdog" all you want (you've done it many times before, using many different words) but in today's climate of sponsorship, ratings and attendance, these guys need me a lot more than I need them. NASCAR could shut down tomorrow, and it wouldn't affect my paycheck one bit. And they all know it. Once you're done rolling your eyes, maybe you can start to digest the fact that a kid with absolutely no NASCAR experience or knowledge could walk into a garage for the first time as a sponsor, and 4 seasons later have the amount of business and connections I now have. You might never find anything I say worthwhile, but plenty of the guys you watch on TV do.

It's a small garage, Reck. Really small. Everyone knows everyone. And whether you like it or not, that includes me as well. I've had a hard card going on 3 seasons. I probably have 2 dozen drivers' numbers on my cell phone. I TALK to these guys. When they tell me what they like about the sport, what they don't like about the sport, what they like about rules, what they don't like about rules, how they race a race, what they were thinking during the race, all that stuff - I take it all in. I think that counts for more than any amount of time I could spend on my own opinions.

Sometimes, when I'm in the mood, I come here and share what I've experienced (not all...mostly because I don't feel like having to convince anyone of what I've seen or heard. Guys like you require too much energy. And frankly, you wouldn't be able to handle some of it. Especially where Jeff Gordon is concerned. No one's perfect, Reck. But I know you don't want to hear it, so I don't bother sharing most of it.) But...I'll come and talk about other stuff because the overwhelming majority of posters here seem like great people. They can believe me, not believe me, it doesn't make a difference really. I'm not going to alter what I know to appease the masses. Or so someone like you will find me credible or not. I know what I know, and that's that. But just know, what I post here isn't coming from a guy watching races on a couch...so who gives a sh*t how long I've been doing it. Other than you.

Also...I try my best to stay in my lane when I'm posting here, and only post on topics that I know something about...which is why I tend to mention Kurt a lot, since the guy's a headline magnet. I don't get involved in the topics or driver threads that I don't know much about. Maybe you can give me that?

Anyway...just want to apologize to every single other poster for having to read all this drivel. I already regret responding. I can't stand talking about myself like this. But I promise you, this is the first and last time I acknowledge this guy. He's been riding my nuts since I got here.
 
I dont want to hear what? That Gordon is being kept as a prisoner by NASCAR and cant retire?

I'm not questioning your job or that you know this and that within the garage but you seem to be A-OK with everything Kurt does and always justify his actions but definitely dont have any problems ripping on other drivers. You can be biased, we all are here but try to keep it sensible and dont oversell yourself.
 
I dont want to hear what? That Gordon is being kept as a prisoner by NASCAR and cant retire?

I'm not questioning your job or that you know this and that within the garage but you seem to be A-OK with everything Kurt does and always justify his actions but definitely dont have any problems ripping on other drivers. You can be biased, we all are here but try to keep it sensible and dont oversell yourself.
Like I said, you don't want to hear Jeff's dirt. There's plenty. But, we all have dirt. Most alive have dirt. Get over yourself.

Now, find examples of me being ok with things Kurt has done in the past. And then find me examples of ripping on other drivers - specifically. I find I defend them when I feel like they're being falsely accused. "Carl's a fake." "Kenseth is a dud." "Tony's an assh*le" Etc. None of those are true, and I usually say so.
 
Gotcha. It's impossible for me to defend him (Kurt) without the bias, but I'm fairly certain if you really wanted to rank truly rude Cup drivers...like, everyday behavior...not just after races on TV stuff...I could probably put at least 20 names ahead of him.

I'm not going to get in a back and forth with you because that would be very unproductive but since you challenged me to find where you're OK with what he does, there one instance.

And that was from today.

Not only are you defending Kurt like he's a saint but you're throwing 20 other drivers and their behaviors outside of racing.

That's a joke.
 
I'm not going to get in a back and forth with you because that would be very unproductive but since you challenged me to find where you're OK with what he does, there one instance.

And that was from today.

Not only are you defending Kurt like he's a saint but you're throwing 20 other drivers and their behaviors outside of racing.

That's a joke.
Did I list any specifically? Of course not. Nor would I. Just posting what I know (so guys like you can jump on it. )

Also, what actions did I defend of his?
 
Did I list any specifically? Of course not. Nor would I. Just posting what I know (so guys like you can jump on it. )

Also, what actions did I defend of his?

You dont have to be specific when you're already condemming them to be worse than Kurt.
 
I am new to this site, and this is my first topic post. I have enjoyed reading everyone's replies and opinions including both of yours Allenbaba and Reck, but please, who's pee pee is the biggest makes no difference to me or anyone else. :)
 
I am new to this site, and this is my first topic post. I have enjoyed reading everyone's replies and opinions including both of yours Allenbaba and Reck, but please, who's pee pee is the biggest makes no difference to me or anyone else. :)
LOL well,
Welcome to racing-forums where the credentials are made up & the opinions dont matter.
 
The reason that we're passionate and complaining is because we are seeing our sport being manipulated and destroyed.
We have no control over the decisions being made but we do have a choice on whether or not we will support those decisions by buying tickets, tuning in for a race or buying driver merchandise.
I'm not buying any more merchandise, 2015 will be the last year I go to a NASCAR race and I'm not going to go out of my way to watch a race or set my DVR. Because I don't GAF who the next Cup Champion is. First time in my life that I've ever felt that way about a sport I really used to love.

They are still loud. They are still fast. That is all that matters IMO.
 
This is a message board on the world wide web. So of course no one would dare come on here and try to convince others that they're something that they're not. Just sayin.
 
I watch the races every week. I watch because I enjoy watching the cars go fast and turn left.
While not a fan of the chase, as long as there are cars on track, I will watch.

And all the pointless arguing about who is doing what to the racing, makes no difference to me.

Again, as long as there are cars on track, I WILL WATCH. The end. :)
 
People on the inside ain't gonna say shyte to the people on the outside if you like the job you have.
 
Enough of this pointless bickering.
We all have opinions. We can either agree, or disagree, with those opinions.
Behind the keyboard, we are all invisible and consider ourselves the most magnificent poster of all times.

Every person is different and different beliefs and opinions. If you don't like someone's opinions, don't pay
any attention to them. Read them and move on. Retaliation just continues the agony.
 
I am on BobbyFord's line of thought on this. I love racing, but NASCAR has worked to engineer it into a production in order to go after people that just aren't into racing. They've turned a steak into hamburger and are trying to make it attractive to vegetarians.

Those of us looking for a steak will satisfy the desire somewhere else and occasionally stop by to have the burger.
So where do you propose satisfying that desire? F1? IRL? The local track? What do you see as your alternatives?
 
So where do you propose satisfying that desire? F1? IRL? The local track? What do you see as your alternatives?

I've been enjoying the local tracks myself. At the local tracks, it's still about the racing. Hel, even on the regional tour series like CARS, PASS and KOMA, it's still about the racing.
 
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