2016 brickyard 400 worst race I have ever seen.

29-4 said:
Monaco is an F1 tradition, akin to Darlington. Indy for NASCAR is only a 'crown jewel' because of media sensationalism. There's a big difference.
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I disagree completely. Indy is a Nascar "crown jewel" because the drivers and the race teams regard it as such. The media hype is derivative from that.
 
hidesert cowboy said:
something has to be done that was the most pathetic excuse for a race I actually couldn't stand it anymore. ....
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Must be nice. It wasn't even the worst Cup race at this track. Tire-gate was in a league of its own.

This didn't even make my bottom 5. The restrictor plate race at Loudon comes to mind. Charlotte after the 'Diamond Laser' repaving, or whatever that technology was. Any number of races red flagged more than twice, especially by rain, extra especially those that were declared finished over an hour after the red was thrown.

Worst? Not even close.
 
Acs said:
Not really. Apparently attendance is a big enough component of it that they are on the verge of losing money due to the ticket sales decline.
www.ibj.com/blogs/4-the-score/post/59554-brickyard-400s-profit-margin-getting-perilously-thin-for-speedway
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I'd advise caution about relying on anything in that article. The financial "conclusions" are drawn from a deeply flawed analysis of too few facts and too many illogical assumptions. It's a really, really bad article, IMO.
 
The Indy race is like watching a defensive football game. I think most here like wide open offense games (lots of passing). I appreciate the variety of racing we get in NASCAR - green flag pit stops vs caution pit stops. Sometimes one driver has the field covered (which usually happens in Pocano). Some teams dominate for a while and over time that changes to another team.
 
29-4 said:
Monaco is an F1 tradition, akin to Darlington. Indy for NASCAR is only a 'crown jewel' because of media sensationalism. There's a big difference.
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I agree. Do Indy long enough, and it will become a tradition...and a crown jewel.
 
Acs said:
If NASCAR wants to continue racing at IMS and not lose money they need to do something drastic. That likely means a new aero package and tire package specific to the track in an attempt to salvage a good race from a bad track. It would be expensive, a long-shot, and probably not worth it in the end but something needs to change or the brickyard 400 is dead.
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How does racing at IMS cause NASCAR to lose money?
 
ToyYoda said:
IMO, running NASCAR at Indy is kind of like if IndyCar ran at Martinsville. A great race in one series, an absolute dud in the other.
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I can't stand Indy at Iowa. There's not enough room for them to take full advantage of the horsepower, and too much banking to make the corners challenging.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I don't have a clue how much they make off of the contract once expenses are taken into account but the way I see it, NASCAR gives that track a bad name. What's that worth?
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I agree 100% and when I read that IMS makes money on its yearly event before one person buys a ticket it made sense that track doesn't really care what sort of event it produces but Nascar should.

This race and other races have given Nascar a black eye over the years as when Charlotte was "levigated" the racing suffered, it seemed we had to wait for an eternity for the track in Chicagoland to become seasoned, Bruton destroyed Bristol, Pocono and MIS both put on dubious races for many years and no one seems to like New Hampshire.

Nascar is in tough as I truly believe that many fans would complain if racing were to resume at Wilkesboro and Rockingham so I don't know what the answer is. It is easy to say put a race at Road America or Iowa but in practice quite difficult.

An idea I have is to merge the truck and X series and have the series use the same car that is used in cup and run events at current non cup tracks and see what kind of event is produced. IMO Nascar has a glut of product and far too many ho hum events that are not supported and continue to erode support. IMO Nascar must embrace a less is more mentality and instead of focusing on quantity they must work toward quality. The product is watered down and the current business model is based on the time when Nascar could do no wrong but that ship sailed ages ago. I understand there are diehard fans who believe that any race is better than no race but in reality that sort of thinking is hurting Nascar, IMO.
 
LouieLouie said:
I think you are letting your bias show in your comments about Kyle Busch.
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My bias is well documented, no question. However, my posts show that I had no problem with the dominance of the 48 (other than they kicked my Toyota ass), and I have been very consistent in my belief that Kevin Harvick was spectacular in 2014 (again, pissed me off that my Toyota ass was kicked). I have no problem with a driver, manufacturer, and team showing up, and doing their job better than everybody else. It would be easy to conclude based on many, many posts that all of that is okay, as long as everybody does their job to the same level, and we have rrrrrracin'. IMO sports gain an identity with dynasties. Benchmarks are set, and you tune in to see if the monster can be slain. It took Toyota/TRD 10 freakin' years to get here, and I have loved all of those years. From cars not making races, to Kyle popping TRD motors on a weekly basis, to Denny's near miss in '10, to Kyle's Championship, to this level of performance. Part of the fun is looking back at what my manufacturer was to where they are now, and now is Kyle Busch and what he is able to do with superior equipment. In '14, when TRD/Toyota won a grand total of 2 races (yeah, that was just 2 years ago), I was on the edge of my seat hoping that the unthinkable could happen. It didn't, but the anticipation was just awesome--maybe being the underdog was more fun (except that @Kyle18fan was on my ass to get TRD to give Kyle the motors he deserved). I will say that the high water mark for me in all of my fanboism has been when Kyle was shouting with joy about the power in the TRD motor in Chicago in 2014. I had never heard that from him, and that right there--that moment--is why I love this sport so much. The Championship was gravy.

IMO, the problem with NASCAR is not the attendance, TV ratings, or the rrrracin'. It's how we watch.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Must be nice. It wasn't even the worst Cup race at this track. Tire-gate was in a league of its own.

This didn't even make my bottom 5. The restrictor plate race at Loudon comes to mind. Charlotte after the 'Diamond Laser' repaving, or whatever that technology was. Any number of races red flagged more than twice, especially by rain, extra especially those that were declared finished over an hour after the red was thrown.

Worst? Not even close.
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Both races at MIS last year were worse, IMO.
 
Revman said:
My bias is well documented, no question. However, my posts show that I had no problem with the dominance of the 48 (other than they kicked my Toyota ass), and I have been very consistent in my belief that Kevin Harvick was spectacular in 2014 (again, pissed me off that my Toyota ass was kicked). I have no problem with a driver, manufacturer, and team showing up, and doing their job better than everybody else. It would be easy to conclude based on many, many posts that all of that is okay, as long as everybody does their job to the same level, and we have rrrrrracin'. IMO sports gain an identity with dynasties. Benchmarks are set, and you tune in to see if the monster can be slain. It took Toyota/TRD 10 freakin' years to get here, and I have loved all of those years. From cars not making races, to Kyle popping TRD motors on a weekly basis, to Denny's near miss in '10, to Kyle's Championship, to this level of performance. Part of the fun is looking back at what my manufacturer was to where they are now, and now is Kyle Busch and what he is able to do with superior equipment. In '14, when TRD/Toyota won a grand total of 2 races (yeah, that was just 2 years ago), I was on the edge of my seat hoping that the unthinkable could happen. It didn't, but the anticipation was just awesome--maybe being the underdog was more fun (except that @Kyle18fan was on my ass to get TRD to give Kyle the motors he deserved). I will say that the high water mark for me in all of my fanboism has been when Kyle was shouting with joy about the power in the TRD motor in Chicago in 2014. I had never heard that from him, and that right there--that moment--is why I love this sport so much. The Championship was gravy.

IMO, the problem with NASCAR is not the attendance, TV ratings, or the rrrracin'. It's how we watch.
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You came thru with the engines ..... whats not to like ? (I don't care how you did it BTW) :salute:
 
Revman said:
I agree. Do Indy long enough, and it will become a tradition...and a crown jewel.
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I am not sure if you are being facetious but the race has been held for almost 25 years and is poorly supported for a number of reasons not the least being it is not a suitable track for the box car Nascar uses. If continuing to hold the event would build momentum and make it something special I could see your reasoning but every year it is held only leads to less support and more derision.

Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded. Yogi Berra
 
aunty dive said:
How does racing at IMS cause NASCAR to lose money?
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I don't think racing at IMS causes Nascar to lose money directly but putting on a crappy event year after year can't be good for them either.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I am not sure if you are being facetious but the race has been held for almost 25 years and is poorly supported for a number of reasons not the least being it is not a suitable track for the box car Nascar uses. If continuing to hold the event would build momentum and make it something special I could see your reasoning but every year it is held only leads to less support and more derision.

Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded. Yogi Berra
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...and Monaco is a great track for F1? That race is technically stupid, but an event....been held for what 50 years? Nobody asks about the attendance there....
 
Kyle18fan said:
You came thru with the engines ..... whats not to like ? (I don't care how you did it BTW) :salute:
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All eggs in that basket. Some stressful days waiting/praying to come good on my promise.

I told 'em that I owed you, and then TRD delivered. That's all it took....:D
 
Revman said:
All eggs in that basket. Some stressful days waiting/praying to come good on my promise.

I told 'em that I owed you, and then TRD delivered. That's all it took....:D
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Make certain they know how much I appreciate it.
Whatever happened to the days when everyone was saying "Toyota copied the Dodge engine" and that they were " not able to be improved without a total redesign"

Revman said:
...and Monaco is a great track for F1? That race is technically stupid, but an event....been held for what 50 years? Nobody asks about the attendance there....
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Since 1929 I believe
 
Revman said:
...and Monaco is a great track for F1? That race is technically stupid, but an event....been held for what 50 years? Nobody asks about the attendance there....
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I suspect that's because Monaco doesn't have an attendance problem. I also suspect the F1 race is about the only sporting event in the principality that draws international attention, so any lack of attendance may be regarded as worth the publicity.
 
Revman said:
My bias is well documented, no question. However, my posts show that I had no problem with the dominance of the 48 (other than they kicked my Toyota ass), and I have been very consistent in my belief that Kevin Harvick was spectacular in 2014 (again, pissed me off that my Toyota ass was kicked). I have no problem with a driver, manufacturer, and team showing up, and doing their job better than everybody else. It would be easy to conclude based on many, many posts that all of that is okay, as long as everybody does their job to the same level, and we have rrrrrracin'. IMO sports gain an identity with dynasties. Benchmarks are set, and you tune in to see if the monster can be slain. It took Toyota/TRD 10 freakin' years to get here, and I have loved all of those years. From cars not making races, to Kyle popping TRD motors on a weekly basis, to Denny's near miss in '10, to Kyle's Championship, to this level of performance. Part of the fun is looking back at what my manufacturer was to where they are now, and now is Kyle Busch and what he is able to do with superior equipment. In '14, when TRD/Toyota won a grand total of 2 races (yeah, that was just 2 years ago), I was on the edge of my seat hoping that the unthinkable could happen. It didn't, but the anticipation was just awesome--maybe being the underdog was more fun (except that @Kyle18fan was on my ass to get TRD to give Kyle the motors he deserved). I will say that the high water mark for me in all of my fanboism has been when Kyle was shouting with joy about the power in the TRD motor in Chicago in 2014. I had never heard that from him, and that right there--that moment--is why I love this sport so much. The Championship was gravy.

IMO, the problem with NASCAR is not the attendance, TV ratings, or the rrrracin'. It's how we watch.
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I think I see where you are coming from and I believe you are looking at Nascar racing more as a connoisseur as opposed to an entertainment option. If true then I totally get where you are coming from as I consider myself an audiophile and prefer the warmer sound of a 40-50 year old 2 channel low wattage amplifier with properly placed speakers. Most people don't give a hoot about that sort of thing and are happy listening to an iPod with cheap earbuds.

It is the same thing with Nascar as the overwhelming majority of people are unwilling to sit through a snooze fest looking for real or imagined nuances. Instead they want to sit inside, turn on the tube and be entertained. I totally get that as after a long week of work and weekend chores you just want to entertained for a few hours as opposed to sitting through dullsville with an eagle eye looking for something redeeming.

When the NFL play becomes more defensive the league mandates rules to accentuate offensive play as that is what the majority of its consumers want. Can you imagine what would happen if a league spokesperson said "the problem with football is not the attendance, TV ratings, or the the game itself but how we watch." Talk about the height of arrogance! Nascar exists to please its fans not the other way around and perhaps that is why Nascar has lost half its fan base, is covered primarily on secondary and tertiary networks and fewer and fewer people tune in or go to the track.
 
Revman said:
IMO, the problem with NASCAR is not the attendance, TV ratings, or the rrrracin'. It's how we watch.
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The attendance/ratings have declined because the "racin" quality has declined. There is a direct correlation between the two. I'm not one to talk about attendance or ratings, but it does bother me because I care about nascar and want a successful future for nascar.

Obviously nascar recognizes there is a problem too, which is why they have tried so hard to improve the racing ever since the CoT debacle. 2014 was pretty solid, 2015 was a step backwards. 2016 has been mostly positive but there are still many ways to improve the racing, simple as that.
 
Revman said:
...and Monaco is a great track for F1? That race is technically stupid, but an event....been held for what 50 years? Nobody asks about the attendance there....
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I have no clue as to what goes on in F1 or Monaco but apparently 200,000 show up in the tiny principality to see a race and that seems like a very good crowd to me. I would hazard a guess that if the 200K that show up in Monaco dwindled to 35K or so as has happened in Indy there would be talk about it somewhere in Europe at least.

Regardless you are missing my point as the definition of insanity "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." It is patently obvious that the product at IMS is broken for the vast majority of people and there is enough tangible and anecdotal information on that to fill a cargo ship. Given the fact that the Brickyard 400 has gone from being a well attended and viewed event to a laughingstock why do you think continuing to hold the event will somehow make it a crown jewel?
 
Yes the race was one of the worst i have ever seen. I would take a Richard petty snooze fest in 1966 over that garbage at IMS anyday
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I have no clue as to what goes on in F1 or Monaco but apparently 200,000 show up in the tiny principality to see a race and that seems like a very good crowd to me. I would hazard a guess that if the 200K that show up in Monaco dwindled to 35K or so as has happened in Indy there would be talk about it somewhere in Europe at least.

Regardless you are missing my point as the definition of insanity "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." It is patently obvious that the product at IMS is broken for the vast majority of people and there is enough tangible and anecdotal information on that to fill a cargo ship. Given the fact that the Brickyard 400 has gone from being a well attended and viewed event to a laughingstock why do you think continuing to hold the event will somehow make it a crown jewel?
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Probably 5 of the folks that show up at Monaco are race fans .... the rest are there because its cool to be there
 
hidesert cowboy said:
something has to be done that was the most pathetic excuse for a race I actually couldn't stand it anymore. You had drivers throwing hale mary's with every manner of pit strategy knowing full well there was no way they were going to catch the 18 even if god was driving their cars. Passing terrible. I could only handle about half the race until I just said peace out I am going to do other things. HMS and the other teams have to be saying umm we suck and must scrap everything. I know indy doesn't put on that great of a race but frankly this one was terrible.
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NASCAR is now complaining they can't fill the stands -- this has been going on ever since NASCAR let a foreign auto company into the races and prices have gone sky high. This action chased MoPar out of the fold, and now the mega $$ the TuRD has put into their program has stunk up the events. Now there are rumors another foreign Co. is looking (Mercedes?). And again, prices have gone out of sight -- and for what ... to see one foreign auto company stink up the show? If something is not done, the old saying of "win on Sunday -- sell on Monday" will be gone. France did it to himself. I for one will not attend a NASCAR race at any venue -- I'll put up with a gazillion commercials and watch on the tube.
 
2 Sweet said:
The attendance/ratings have declined because the "racin" quality has declined. There is a direct correlation between the two. I'm not one to talk about attendance or ratings, but it does bother me because I care about nascar and want a successful future for nascar.

Obviously nascar recognizes there is a problem too, which is why they have tried so hard to improve the racing ever since the CoT debacle. 2014 was pretty solid, 2015 was a step backwards. 2016 has been mostly positive but there are still many ways to improve the racing, simple as that.
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Back in the late 50's and early 60's most GM dealers were not at all concerned about some funny looking car from Germany until it ate all their lunches. In the early 70's they were not concerned about Datsun 510's or Toyota Corona's and later on Corolla's and Honda Civic's until they got more of their asses handed to them. General Motors used to have over 60% of market share in the US and now has something like 15-16%.

I remember well when that bloated little alkie, aka Brian France, was chortling about Nascar rivaling the NFL in popularity but now they are throwing spaghetti against the ceiling hoping that something will stick and improve the situation. GM did that and fell into bankruptcy. IMO the more rabid a Nascar fan is the more concerned they should be about current trends in the series they love. It doesn't mean they have to worry or lose sleep over it but only a fool would look at the current state of Nascar and be optimistic.
 
I will never get it . Always thought racing was... Put a bunch of cars on track and see who is the fastest . Second fastest beats third fastest . By half a lap , a whole lap or a fender . The race is the race . We claim not to wasn't the governing body to 'manage' the races by bunching up the field . We claim not to want fuel mileage races or rain shortened races . In the old days , guys would win by five , six, seven laps. Gave the other cars something to shoot for we said . So we want the fastest car to win but only by a little, with lots of lead changes , but we don't want it managed?
 
Kyle18fan said:
Probably 5 of the folks that show up at Monaco are race fans .... the rest are there because its cool to be there
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I would much rather have 200K non fans show up to my event and purchase tickets and spend money on other items then have 35K die hard fans show up and purchase tickets and spend money on other stuff. I am sure track officials at IMS would giver their left prunes to have 200K fans show up at their yearly event.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
I would much rather have 200K non fans show up to my event and purchase tickets and spend money on other items then have 35K die hard fans show up and purchase tickets and spend money on other stuff. I am sure track officials at IMS would giver their left prunes to have 200K fans show up at their yearly event.
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sitting in bleachers when its 95 degrees is absolutely brutal ............ tv was the place to watch that race IMO
 
Acs said:
So why can't NASCAR races be cool things to go to?
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The unfair and inaccurate perception among a lot of people is that Nascar is a form of entertainment for people from a concentrated gene pool. If I am being totally honest and I was in a group of people I did not know well and was asked what sports or racing series I follow I would not mention Nascar as I wouldn't want to be in the position of defending it and/or be thought of as an ignoramus.

The funny thing is 15-20 years ago being a Nascar fan was akin to sitting at the cool kids table during lunch. Not now.
 
ted@economy said:
I will never get it . Always thought racing was... Put a bunch of cars on track and see who is the fastest . Second fastest beats third fastest . By half a lap , a whole lap or a fender . The race is the race . We claim not to wasn't the governing body to 'manage' the races by bunching up the field . We claim not to want fuel mileage races or rain shortened races . In the old days , guys would win by five , six, seven laps. Gave the other cars something to shoot for we said . So we want the fastest car to win but only by a little, with lots of lead changes , but we don't want it managed?
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You're missing one huge part of why we watch racing... the human factor.
 
ted@economy said:
I will never get it . Always thought racing was... Put a bunch of cars on track and see who is the fastest . Second fastest beats third fastest . By half a lap , a whole lap or a fender . The race is the race . We claim not to wasn't the governing body to 'manage' the races by bunching up the field . We claim not to want fuel mileage races or rain shortened races . In the old days , guys would win by five , six, seven laps. Gave the other cars something to shoot for we said . So we want the fastest car to win but only by a little, with lots of lead changes , but we don't want it managed?
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The main thing I don't care for in a race is if the leader can check out on bald tires while a very good car with new tires can't move forward. I don't mind if one car is the class of the field and checks out and I don't mind cars being on different laps as that is all part of the race. I can't stand slow caution periods where it takes 12 minutes to get back to green flag racing all because of an errant hot dog wrapper and I detest double wreck restarts. I am insulted by phantom debris cautions or any other tool used to artificially bunch up the field and I loathe cars that were 1.75 laps down being back on the lead lap in short order. I am for just letting the race play out naturally.
 
I'm giving it #1 worse race I've watched. At least the Indy tire debacle and the Charlotte 'levitation' failures had some kind of action going to keep me interested in watching it... if only for the laughs.
 
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