2018 Sonoma -- TOYOTA/SAVE MART 350 - Pre-Race Thread

StandOnIt said:
Yeah there has never been a ringer win at either the Glen or Sonoma. You have to go back to the long gone riverside raceway days in the 60's, early 70's. Gurney, Foyt, Donohue and Parnelli Jones
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Fellows came very close on more than one occasion. Led a good amount of laps over his starts and finished second a couple times. Got knocked out due to mechanical failure once while leading if I do recall
 
Michfan said:
Weird to say win less in cup at Sonoma...since you know that's all that runs there.
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I'm not sure what you mean by "...that's all that runs there." There are plenty of other series that run at Sonoma, including dragsters and IndyCar's finale.

http://www.sonomaraceway.com/events/ , and that's just the stuff they charge admission for.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'm not sure what you mean by "...that's all that runs there." There are plenty of other series that run at Sonoma, including dragsters and IndyCar's finale.

http://www.sonomaraceway.com/events/ , and that's just the stuff they charge admission for.
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Nascar top three series, or anything Ambrose runs... should have said all he runs there I guess
 
2 Sweet said:
Fellows came very close on more than one occasion. Led a good amount of laps over his starts and finished second a couple times. Got knocked out due to mechanical failure once while leading if I do recall
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Labonte had em beat that year he came outta retirement n jumped in the 96. Ran out of gas comin to the checkered.

Drivin for Aikman and Staubach.
 
eh, Chastain is pretty good on road courses, Klingerman probably will have a decent for a back marker finish. Both are going to be hard to follow, I don't think they will get their number called much, the cameras will be focused on the lead pack.
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M&M's Carmel hat it is!
 
O/T I don't have a problem with these drivers who have little if any experience on a road course IMO.
Five Cup drivers set for K&N West race at Sonoma
Alex Bowman, Erik Jones, Aric Almirola, William Byron and Daniel Suarez will compete in Saturday’s K&N Pro Series West race at Sonoma Raceway, the Carneros 200.
The extra track time will be beneficial for a set of drivers who don’t have much experience on the road course.
Bowman has two Sonoma starts, but none since 2015. Both Suarez and Jones will make their second Cup starts on the track and Byron is making his first start.

Also entered into the 64-lap race are NASCAR Next drivers Will Rodgers, Hailie Deegan and Derek Kraus.

https://nascar.nbcsports.com/2018/06/19/five-cup-drivers-set-for-kn-west-race-at-sonoma/
 
StandOnIt said:
I think the shift occurred when Gordon (5) and Stewart (3) came along.
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I agree. I think the field started to take the road courses more seriously when Gordon and Stewart showed them cup drivers had the skills and they started practicing. Race simulators were getting developed and I think Fellows started teaching some of the NASCAR drivers on the side. I suspect a number of drivers went to driver schools.
 
Zerkfitting said:
I agree. I think the field started to take the road courses more seriously when Gordon and Stewart showed them cup drivers had the skills and they started practicing. Race simulators were getting developed and I think Fellows started teaching some of the NASCAR drivers on the side. I suspect a number of drivers went to driver schools.
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Exactly,

“I went to enough driving schools to get a little bit of knowledge,” said Gordon, who on Sunday will race at WGI for the last time as a full-time Sprint Cup driver. “Prior to coming to NASCAR, I was pursuing everything. If somebody gave me an opportunity to get in a race car or to go to a driving school, then I was packing my helmet back and heading that way.

“I did it up at Mosport (Canadian Tire Motorsport Park) in Canada. I did it with Skip Barber, and I think after I started NASCAR I did the one out in Sonoma and I also did the one in Phoenix with Bob Bondurant. I’ve done a lot of those schools, and then I drove a lot of different types of cars. I remember driving a Super Vee out at Indianapolis Raceway Park before I ever got into NASCAR.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nascar/...rse-sonoma-go-kart/1wh6f3h7i3rlt1woqxdy8h1cwj
 
i remember when larson came to nascar he didnt know how to drive a stick shift.gm build him a camaro with a stick for him to drive on the streets to help him learn.worked out pretty good.
 
O/T I think number 1 will surprise a few
Best road course drivers in NASCAR history? Here's Ricky Craven's list
There was a time when most NASCAR drivers agonized about having to race a road course twice a year. Many of them would rather make a trip to the dentist than compete at Riverside, Sonoma or Watkins Glen. That attitude opened the door for specialists to be hired. Drivers coined "road course ringers" would get the call twice a year.
Those receiving calls included Ron Fellows, Boris Said, Scott Pruett and Tommy Kendall -- considered some of the best road racing specialists on the planet. Yet none of them ever won a Cup race

http://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/s...course-drivers-history-here-ricky-craven-list
 
StandOnIt said:
O/T I think number 1 will surprise a few
Best road course drivers in NASCAR history? Here's Ricky Craven's list
There was a time when most NASCAR drivers agonized about having to race a road course twice a year. Many of them would rather make a trip to the dentist than compete at Riverside, Sonoma or Watkins Glen. That attitude opened the door for specialists to be hired. Drivers coined "road course ringers" would get the call twice a year.
Those receiving calls included Ron Fellows, Boris Said, Scott Pruett and Tommy Kendall -- considered some of the best road racing specialists on the planet. Yet none of them ever won a Cup race

http://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/s...course-drivers-history-here-ricky-craven-list
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I can see Richmond as number 1, in my book it's either him or Gordon or Stewart. Kyle Busch could be up there by the end of his career too the way he is going.
 
I can see a fanatical Gordon fan (and there are plenty around here) begging to differ myself when I read it.
 
I think everyone can agree on the top 3, although not necessarily the order Ricky puts them in. I feel the same way about Rudd, Wallace, and Martin. We could argue about their sequence, but they're definitely the ones for slots 4, 5, and 6.
 
This is one of the places I miss JG racing at, he was such a master at Sears Point. He used to hustle that car through the turns, but at the same time made it look so effortless.
 
lolla79 said:
Pruett, Fellows, and Said were definitely threats in the early 2000s. I think we started to see the shift occur once Montoya and Ambrose came along though.
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StandOnIt said:
I think the shift occurred when Gordon (5) and Stewart (3) came along. JPM won 1 race at Sonoma and Ambrose was win less on the cup side of things
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Truex_rox said:
Ricky Craven came up with a pretty solid list. I always like his informative style. Learned quite a bit about how Ricky Rudd used to wheel his cars.
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From the Craven article,
Ricky Rudd ... employed the heel-toe footwork, a purest form of braking with your right toes, while rolling your heel to the accelerator for matching revs during down shifts. Your left foot is used exclusively for the clutch pedal. I doubt any drivers in this weekend's race will use this technique because the new transmissions no longer require the clutch be engaged.
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That type of footwork is what used to separate the ringers from the Cup regulars. I submit the shift to Cup regulars being more successful than ringers is due to the transmission change. It eliminated the advantages of those who had the heel-toe skills.
 
Don't think so. The last road course expert, Mark Donohue, won there in 73 and that was in a Penske AMC Matador. Rudd's first win at Riverside was 10 years later in 1983.
 
StandOnIt said:
O/T I think number 1 will surprise a few
Best road course drivers in NASCAR history? Here's Ricky Craven's list
There was a time when most NASCAR drivers agonized about having to race a road course twice a year. Many of them would rather make a trip to the dentist than compete at Riverside, Sonoma or Watkins Glen. That attitude opened the door for specialists to be hired. Drivers coined "road course ringers" would get the call twice a year.
Those receiving calls included Ron Fellows, Boris Said, Scott Pruett and Tommy Kendall -- considered some of the best road racing specialists on the planet. Yet none of them ever won a Cup race

http://www.espn.com/racing/nascar/s...course-drivers-history-here-ricky-craven-list
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Confident that Gordon and Stewart would run half a lap ahead of Richmond. They won more against much stiffer competiton in more equal equipment.
 
Don’t understand how Marcos Ambrose is only #8. Also Robby Gordon not making the list is a mistake.

Can’t argue with the rest.
 
JBone88 said:
Don’t understand how Marcos Ambrose is only #8. Also Robby Gordon not making the list is a mistake.

Can’t argue with the rest.
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Robbie Gordon had one win in cup at Sonoma and one at Watkins Glenn on a road course might be why.
 
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StandOnIt said:
Robbie Gordon had one win in cup at Sonoma and one at Watkins Glenn on a road course might be why.
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So? Marcos Ambrose had two Cup wins. So did JPM. They are both on there.

Look at his career numbers on road courses. The dude was highly competitive. And he never drove for the top teams either. Almost won races against the big dogs for his own single car team. Finished 2nd in an Ultra motorsports car in ‘01. He deserves to be on the list.
 
JBone88 said:
So? Marcos Ambrose had two Cup wins. So did JPM. They are both on there.

Look at his career numbers on road courses. The dude was highly competitive. And he never drove for the top teams either. Almost won races against the big dogs for his own single car team. Finished 2nd in an Ultra motorsports car in ‘01. He deserves to be on the list.
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racing reference isn't crediting his one win in his total, it shows only one win, could be a mistake. but I found it. That might be the race where he went totally psycho.
 
JBone88 said:
So? Marcos Ambrose had two Cup wins. So did JPM. They are both on there.

Look at his career numbers on road courses. The dude was highly competitive. And he never drove for the top teams either. Almost won races against the big dogs for his own single car team. Finished 2nd in an Ultra motorsports car in ‘01. He deserves to be on the list.
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Gordon drove for Childress, they were a top team then.
 
StandOnIt said:
racing reference isn't crediting his one win in his total, it shows only one win, could be a mistake. but I found it. That might be the race where he went totally psycho.
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The Busch race at Gilles Villenueve? :XXROFL: There were some great Busch races there.
 
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Charlie Spencer said:
From the Craven article,

That type of footwork is what used to separate the ringers from the Cup regulars. I submit the shift to Cup regulars being more successful than ringers is due to the transmission change. It eliminated the advantages of those who had the heel-toe skills.
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I definitely think that's a good portion of it. Technological advancements have made it easier to develop skills that were once very hard to find.
 
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