2023 Chili bowl

kkfan91

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I never had Mav cause I don't need to see Late Models but still love this
 

StandOnIt

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I never had Mav cause I don't need to see Late Models but still love this
I tried for three days to give MAV + my money to watch the last race of the Chili Bowl, and their site was so screwed up it was impossible. Garbage site pissing away money. Glorious news for my favorite races to watch over the dark days of winter. :punkrocke
 

acmerocket

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i only signed up for mavtv for motocross,they have messed it up so bad that they have been putting it on youtube live for free.i wonder how flo would do motocross?
 

StandOnIt

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i only signed up for mavtv for motocross,they have messed it up so bad that they have been putting it on youtube live for free.i wonder how flo would do motocross?
I don't know if they will ding us for more for it or not but it is available

MAVTV Plus Live And Future On-Demand Content Will Now Be Available On FloRacing Including Lucas Oil Late Model Dirt Series, Lucas Oil Pro Motocross Championship, Chili Bowl Nationals Presented By General Tire Finals And More Starting on June 30

 

acmerocket

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it looks like after july 26 there will be no more mavtv. it will just be on flo.
 

acmerocket

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iam not sure what to think, i wonder what just to rent for that building for a month is?and said he didnt have the concessions. but the its on tv so there should be money from that,and entry fees. sad to see money screw up up one of the best week of the year. i would rather have a golden driller then a check:wacko:
 

gnomesayin

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That said, I'll believe that Kyle Larson and other favorites are going to skip the Chili Bowl when they don't roll in next January. It's a bit of a standoff, and I get it. Regardless of who is making piles of money and who isn't, the purse is a joke and should be addressed.
 

StandOnIt

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iam not sure what to think, i wonder what just to rent for that building for a month is?and said he didnt have the concessions. but the its on tv so there should be money from that,and entry fees. sad to see money screw up up one of the best week of the year. i would rather have a golden driller then a check:wacko:
The building is huge, so is the parking lot for all of the haulers, all of the dirt work, building and pit set up, dealing with the fair board and what they charge, on and on. I'm sure whoever they are will be missed, but highly doubtful it will effect much if anything, They are already sold out every night and it's bigger than the "stars"
 

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So bottom line for racers who have already won, winning another Chili Bowl isn't about the prestige (Golden Driller Trophy), but about the money? There are probably 500 other racers that disagree. Also, winning the Chili Bowl can be a springboard to signing a nice fat contract down the road.
I get it, the promoter wants to make as much as possible and so do the racers. But when you hear drivers say the win means more to them than the Daytona 500, then the next day they say it needs to pay more money it gets a bit confusing. Its people like Larson, Bell, Swindells and others that have made it what it has become today. They all entered and raced for peanuts trying to get the win. Now it's different?
 

kkfan91

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I think it matters more to one's who have a shot to win it. With over 300 cars many are there just to experience it. Also I know why Larson said it...but I also don't think he's hurting for money. I know these guys don't want to pay out of pocket to be competitive. But I'm with the promoter, it's not just a regular race track you need a big building for a long block of time it's not cheap.
 

StandOnIt

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This thread, on both sides, sounds a lot like the college football money argument... :idunno:
I have no idea what that means. Larson and Sweet have launced a big money mid week series next year designed to bring more money into sprint car racing. Time will tell how successful that will be. My point is that Larson is kinda on a crusade to improve purse money in dirt racing everywhere. Probably popular as hell with the drivers, not so much with track owners trying to keep the doors open. I think "they" should have sat down with the other principals involved in producing the Chile Bowl first instead of going to social media to air their grievances. It's a cheap shot IMO. If they had tried that first and got nowhere I could see what they are doing. But not knowing anything about the time effort and money involved in putting on the show, I have a problem with it.
 

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One point on which I agree on with @StandOnIt is that taking an adversarial stance via media before exhausting all efforts privately is not wise or useful. Same with some of the drama over recent team / driver announcements in NASCAR and IndyCar. Everything isn't necessarily a PR campaign.

If that is what happened. I'm not convinced from Hahn's comments that he hasn't indeed had private conversations with Larson, Bell, Stewart, and many others before about the Chili Bowl purse. It has been a major point of contention for years.

I last attended the Chili Bowl in 2006 (wish it hadn't been so long). Tickets, pit passes, and entry fees have all ballooned in cost since then, as have the number of entries themselves. Some have nearly doubled. They're still racing for the same amount of money to win.

The dominant belief in the dirt racing community is that Shootout pays for itself and the Chili Bowl is a cash cow. If Hahn himself isn't raking it in, some entity is. Maybe it's the city, I don't know. However, the basic math doesn't lie. The entry fees alone more than cover the purse itself.

I believe Larson has shifted in the past year to seeing his role in the dirt community as more of a leader who has leverage to agitate for changes that we will be beneficial to full-time drivers. He has the clout to take stances that others who do this for a living can't. I think that's more than justified.

To get down to brass tacks, when you get angry at drivers expressing that they should be paid more money, what you're really arguing for is that more profits remain in the hands of the promoters and facility owners instead. That's it. In NASCAR, team owners and drivers might sometimes be at odds financially. Not so much in dirt racing, as what Larson is fighting for will also be good for Keith Kunz and all of the car owners big and small.
 

gnomesayin

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Also, the Chili Bowl didn't continually expand from a three-day show to a four-day show to a now six-day show because they were breaking even, and wanted to break even more and more. :D

Streaming revenue is also now considerable, and barely existed five years ago.
 

DIDIT

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One point on which I agree on with @StandOnIt is that taking an adversarial stance via media before exhausting all efforts privately is not wise or useful. Same with some of the drama over recent team / driver announcements in NASCAR and IndyCar. Everything isn't necessarily a PR campaign.

If that is what happened. I'm not convinced from Hahn's comments that he hasn't indeed had private conversations with Larson, Bell, Stewart, and many others before about the Chili Bowl purse. It has been a major point of contention for years.

I last attended the Chili Bowl in 2006 (wish it hadn't been so long). Tickets, pit passes, and entry fees have all ballooned in cost since then, as have the number of entries themselves. Some have nearly doubled. They're still racing for the same amount of money to win.

The dominant belief in the dirt racing community is that Shootout pays for itself and the Chili Bowl is a cash cow. If Hahn himself isn't raking it in, some entity is. Maybe it's the city, I don't know. However, the basic math doesn't lie. The entry fees alone more than cover the purse itself.

I believe Larson has shifted in the past year to seeing his role in the dirt community as more of a leader who has leverage to agitate for changes that we will be beneficial to full-time drivers. He has the clout to take stances that others who do this for a living can't. I think that's more than justified.

To get down to brass tacks, when you get angry at drivers expressing that they should be paid more money, what you're really arguing for is that more profits remain in the hands of the promoters and facility owners instead. That's it. In NASCAR, team owners and drivers might sometimes be at odds financially. Not so much in dirt racing, as what Larson is fighting for will also be good for Keith Kunz and all of the car owners big and small.
Last night I went to a sprint car race with about 40 entries. Probably 35 of them came into the pits with a 53 ft hauler, spare engine and car. It's hard for me to understand why more team money is necessary. These big shows will be dominated by the big teams. They will benefit from the bigger purse and eventually put the local racer out of their league. I doubt this will benefit someone like the Colfax Comet. What I see happening, is just like what has happened in NASCAR to any small independent team.
 

LewTheShoe

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Last night I went to a sprint car race with about 40 entries. Probably 35 of them came into the pits with a 53 ft hauler, spare engine and car. It's hard for me to understand why more team money is necessary. These big shows will be dominated by the big teams. They will benefit from the bigger purse and eventually put the local racer out of their league. I doubt this will benefit someone like the Colfax Comet. What I see happening, is just like what has happened in NASCAR to any small independent team.
By that same logic, the Indy 500 should pay $40K to win, $5K to start... with the money saved going into the promoter's pocket. Because the big teams would still show up with their big team resources....
 

DIDIT

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By that same logic, the Indy 500 should pay $40K to win, $5K to start... with the money saved going into the promoter's pocket. Because the big teams would still show up with their big team resources....
Its a little different than that. There are probably a 1,000 small sprint car teams in this country. When the big boys come into town, they fill out the field. Is the intent here to create 24 mega sprint car teams for a single series and every other 410 sprint car team will not run with them?
 

gnomesayin

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Last night I went to a sprint car race with about 40 entries. Probably 35 of them came into the pits with a 53 ft hauler, spare engine and car. It's hard for me to understand why more team money is necessary. These big shows will be dominated by the big teams. They will benefit from the bigger purse and eventually put the local racer out of their league. I doubt this will benefit someone like the Colfax Comet. What I see happening, is just like what has happened in NASCAR to any small independent team.

Its a little different than that. There are probably a 1,000 small sprint car teams in this country. When the big boys come into town, they fill out the field. Is the intent here to create 24 mega sprint car teams for a single series and every other 410 sprint car team will not run with them?


I know you're a real deal fan, but I don't follow the logic. Firstly, purses are already rapidly increasing across various forms of dirt racing, from local to national. The costs of racing have been increasing for decades, regardless of whether purses were stagnant or going up. There is no group of small teams lobbying for purses to remain frozen while the costs of everything else for teams and fans rise because it somehow helps them compete with big teams. If anything, smaller teams are more dependent on purse money, as they derive less revenue from sponsorship, merchandise, etc. Your tickets for the Chili Bowl or any other race aren't going to be a single cent cheaper if the purse remains low. They price according to demand and nothing more.
 

Revman

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So Sweet and Larson (and maybe Bell) seem to be giving the finger to the Chilli Bowl. I get that the purse sucks, but this is grassroots racing, right? Larson is an interesting dude. How does this help grassroots racing? Larson brought to tears winning in '20....and now turns his back on the race? I don't get it.
 

DIDIT

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I know you're a real deal fan, but I don't follow the logic. Firstly, purses are already rapidly increasing across various forms of dirt racing, from local to national. The costs of racing have been increasing for decades, regardless of whether purses were stagnant or going up. There is no group of small teams lobbying for purses to remain frozen while the costs of everything else for teams and fans rise because it somehow helps them compete with big teams. If anything, smaller teams are more dependent on purse money, as they derive less revenue from sponsorship, merchandise, etc. Your tickets for the Chili Bowl or any other race aren't going to be a single cent cheaper if the purse remains low. They price according to demand and nothing more.
Maybe I should start another thread as I am drifting off topic. I agree all teams would want purse increases. But if the smaller teams don't feel they have any chance to make the feature, they won't show. We already see that at some bigger tracks where the best engine wins.

I think my real question is, would it be beneficial to teams and fans to have 24 "charter" style teams in sprint car racing? I just think this is the way it will eventually go. As a fan, I am not sure I like that. I really enjoy going to a 410 race never knowing who might show up. Look at all those racers down in Eldora this weekend and everyone who will be showing up at Knoxville. Hoping that doesn't change.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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So Sweet and Larson (and maybe Bell) seem to be giving the finger to the Chilli Bowl. I get that the purse sucks, but this is grassroots racing, right? Larson is an interesting dude. How does this help grassroots racing? Larson brought to tears winning in '20....and now turns his back on the race? I don't get it.

By calling out the purse publicly, and saying he's boycotting the event, it'll likely force the organizers of the Chili Bowl to raise the purses.

Dirt promoters want Kyle Larson at their races. Just like asphalt promoters want Dale Jr to show up at their races.
 

wi_racefan

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So Sweet and Larson (and maybe Bell) seem to be giving the finger to the Chilli Bowl. I get that the purse sucks, but this is grassroots racing, right? Larson is an interesting dude. How does this help grassroots racing? Larson brought to tears winning in '20....and now turns his back on the race? I don't get it.
I don't blame him. They spend a ton money for that event, it has streaming coverage for a week and cable coverage for the final and the purse is very small. The purse in so many dirt races has gone up a lot in the past few years but not this one
 

Revman

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By calling out the purse publicly, and saying he's boycotting the event, it'll likely force the organizers of the Chili Bowl to raise the purses.

Dirt promoters want Kyle Larson at their races. Just like asphalt promoters want Dale Jr to show up at their races.
...or the event slides into oblivion? I don't know...seems weird.....teary win of his life, and then, naw, I"ll make a statement here....Maybe he will run less dirt stuff now that he scrutinizes the purses. Is he pissed for the little guy, or for himself on this, Andy?
 

Revman

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I don't blame him. They spend a ton money for that event, it has streaming coverage for a week and cable coverage for the final and the purse is very small. The purse in so many dirt races has gone up a lot in the past few years but not this one
I'll ask you what I asked @AndyMarquisLive ....Is he campaigning for the little guy or for himself?
 

StandOnIt

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I'll ask you what I asked @AndyMarquisLive ....Is he campaigning for the little guy or for himself?
What are you nutz? Larson and Sweet starting next year are starting a mid week 410 series to enhance the purses (by having more of them)for sprint car racing. The little guy has nothing to do with it. The same guys that win 410 races are going to be there. It's just another payday but it's midweek.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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...or the event slides into oblivion? I don't know...seems weird.....teary win of his life, and then, naw, I"ll make a statement here....Maybe he will run less dirt stuff now that he scrutinizes the purses. Is he pissed for the little guy, or for himself on this, Andy?

Probably something everyone was already grumbling about and Kyle Larson, being the biggest superstar in dirt racing and a Cup champion, had a megaphone.

The Martinsville Late Model race used to have a mandatory competition caution with 10 laps to go. In 2013 and 2014, that mandatory caution interrupted really good races and the fastest cars ended up getting taken out. The races were also being decided on jumped restarts. A lot of drivers, and some in the media were bitching about it.

Finally, Dale Jr came out and said his cars would not run that event anymore if they kept that caution in place, and they did away with the 10 to go caution and changed it to 25 to go and then, eventually, eliminated it altogether - splitting the race into three stages instead. Now, the race is a pure race and not a contrived WWE ****show.

The format of the event never would have changed had Dale Jr not spoke out about it and threatened to boycott it, despite the fact that the rest of us wanted it changed.
 

Revman

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What are you nutz? Larson and Sweet starting next year are starting a mid week 410 series to enhance the purses (by having more of them)for sprint car racing. The little guy has nothing to do with it. The same guys that win 410 races are going to be there. It's just another payday but it's midweek.
I wasn't asking you...I will @ you when I want to hear what you have to say.
 

Revman

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Probably something everyone was already grumbling about and Kyle Larson, being the biggest superstar in dirt racing and a Cup champion, had a megaphone.

The Martinsville Late Model race used to have a mandatory competition caution with 10 laps to go. In 2013 and 2014, that mandatory caution interrupted really good races and the fastest cars ended up getting taken out. The races were also being decided on jumped restarts. A lot of drivers, and some in the media were bitching about it.

Finally, Dale Jr came out and said his cars would not run that event anymore if they kept that caution in place, and they did away with the 10 to go caution and changed it to 25 to go and then, eventually, eliminated it altogether - splitting the race into three stages instead. Now, the race is a pure race and not a contrived WWE ****show.

The format of the event never would have changed had Dale Jr not spoke out about it and threatened to boycott it, despite the fact that the rest of us wanted it changed.
So, the big guns champion the grassroots racing community, but don't like the way it is run--so are they promoting it or not? Who gets hurt when Larson et al. give the finger to one of the biggest races of the year? Fans. I am genuinely confused, but that's nothing new--particularly on this subject.
 
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