2024 Next Gen Car

2 Sweet

HMS 4-life
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
6,178
Points
793
Location
Hilliard, OH
As I've been saying for a while now.....

Add horsepower
Make a softer tire
Do something with the gearing

if the fall Martinsville race is any indicator, Goodyear is making strides with a tire that wears more, which leads to better racing. And NASCAR is messing with the transaxle to adjust/eliminate shift points, so hopefully we can check that box too.

My remaining point: horsepower. Why are they still refusing to budge on this? Doug Yates said they could easily go to 750 without much of a cost increase or a hit to reliability/longevity. Initially NASCAR said the lower HP engines would help the barrier to entry for a new manufacturer. Well, that didn't happen (and it didn't make much sense anyway).

So if we can get 15% more horsepower at just a 5% cost increase, and it helps the racing at the short tracks and road courses, why is this completely off the table?
 

StandOnIt

Farm Truck
Joined
Feb 26, 2013
Messages
73,932
Points
1,033
Location
yoooklahoma
So if we can get 15% more horsepower at just a 5% cost increase, and it helps the racing at the short tracks and road courses, why is this completely off the table?
Probably because that has been proven not to be true?
 

MRM

Team Owner
Joined
Jun 14, 2002
Messages
5,408
Points
793
Location
Powell, TN
NASCAR has fallen into the argument that less horsepower will lead to closer racing. All that does is take some of the danger aspect out of the sport, which used to be a primary draw. You also have to wonder if they are being pressured to reduce horsepower for "better" fuel consumption because of the leftist climate agenda.
 

kkfan91

Everyones an outlaw til its time to do outlaw s%&#
Joined
Jun 13, 2009
Messages
23,716
Points
1,033
Location
PA
I don’t know, I can’t envision it

All 4 certainly are different
portada-ENG.jpg
NCS-Square.jpg

Europe
FC9IzIMXoAk_ds-.jpeg

Brazil
november-17-2022-diogo-moscato-gt-sprint-race-interlagos-2022.jpg
 

Mispeedway15

Team Owner
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
4,658
Points
443
NASCAR has fallen into the argument that less horsepower will lead to closer racing. All that does is take some of the danger aspect out of the sport, which used to be a primary draw. You also have to wonder if they are being pressured to reduce horsepower for "better" fuel consumption because of the leftist climate agenda.
I think 2024 would be the perfect year to do it as handling has improved on the car. 2022 would’ve been a disaster at 750 HP, guys were spinning out all the time adjusting to a car not yawed out. With Indy getting another 150 HP via the hybrid next year, NASCAR needs something
 

Revman

I beat your favorite driver.
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
14,397
Points
1,033
As I've been saying for a while now.....

Add horsepower
Make a softer tire
Do something with the gearing

if the fall Martinsville race is any indicator, Goodyear is making strides with a tire that wears more, which leads to better racing. And NASCAR is messing with the transaxle to adjust/eliminate shift points, so hopefully we can check that box too.

My remaining point: horsepower. Why are they still refusing to budge on this? Doug Yates said they could easily go to 750 without much of a cost increase or a hit to reliability/longevity. Initially NASCAR said the lower HP engines would help the barrier to entry for a new manufacturer. Well, that didn't happen (and it didn't make much sense anyway).

So if we can get 15% more horsepower at just a 5% cost increase, and it helps the racing at the short tracks and road courses, why is this completely off the table?
Let's soften the tire....and add tire pressure sensors to keep drivers from killing themselves, and Goodyear being held responsible....because like, stock cars. Goodyear gets hung on tire failures.

With you on the hp and gearing as well,
 

racingfan7

Start and Park
Contributor
Joined
Sep 18, 2016
Messages
8,648
Points
793
Location
Hell
Went to an IndyCar test at Portland many years ago. They had a guy grilling hotdogs and selling beer. There are worse ways to spend an afternoon.

For sure. NASCAR BS testing policies for tracks like Pikes Peak & Kentucky Speedway & Rockingham/Little Rock too.
 

Charlie Spencer

Road courses and short tracks.
Joined
Oct 17, 2012
Messages
34,023
Points
1,033
Location
Lexington, SC
****** why? So stupid. Build interest. Introduce new fans....let them get close to the cars.
Because the track would have to staff the facilities. Someone's got to open the gates, block off the area they don't want fans in, clean the bathrooms, dump the trash, etc. There's also the cost of liability insurance, utilities, etc. All that has to be paid for. There probably wouldn't be enough fans to cover the expenses if they sold reasonably priced tickets. If they charged enough to cover the costs, nobody would buy them.
Yeah it’s really dumb how NASCAR wants to limit everything.
It's not NASCAR's decision, at least not as a sanctioning body. Local track management makes the call whether to let fans in.
It 's much easier to control the narrative when nobody can see what you're doing. Then the "results" can be whatever NASCAR wants them to be.
Yeah, nothing like finding a conspiracy instead of the obvious economic reasons.
 

Spotter22

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
Messages
12,238
Points
883
NASCAR has fallen into the argument that less horsepower will lead to closer racing. All that does is take some of the danger aspect out of the sport, which used to be a primary draw. You also have to wonder if they are being pressured to reduce horsepower for "better" fuel consumption because of the leftist climate agenda.
I remember talking to John Darby about the speeds the cars were traveling back when we were hitting over 200 getting in the corner at Atlanta and over 215 at Michigan and Darby said that the corner speeds were so fast we had at that time maybe 5 drivers that could handle that speed and run it and be consistent. He believed we needed to slow the cars to match the talent.
 

Formerjackman

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
5,709
Points
793
Because the track would have to staff the facilities. Someone's got to open the gates, block off the area they don't want fans in, clean the bathrooms, dump the trash, etc. There's also the cost of liability insurance, utilities, etc. All that has to be paid for. There probably wouldn't be enough fans to cover the expenses if they sold reasonably priced tickets. If they charged enough to cover the costs, nobody would buy them.

It's not NASCAR's decision, at least not as a sanctioning body. Local track management makes the call whether to let fans in.

Yeah, nothing like finding a conspiracy instead of the obvious economic reasons.
Except that NASCAR owns Phoenix, so it's THEIR money, and sometimes you do things just for the PR and goodwill value.
 

Formerjackman

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
5,709
Points
793
I remember talking to John Darby about the speeds the cars were traveling back when we were hitting over 200 getting in the corner at Atlanta and over 215 at Michigan and Darby said that the corner speeds were so fast we had at that time maybe 5 drivers that could handle that speed and run it and be consistent. He believed we needed to slow the cars to match the talent.
I don't think we need to be going 215 at Michigan either, but we have traded straightaway speeds for cornering speeds, which are MUCH more dangerous in my opinion. And once again, I have said from day one that you cannot put on a good show at tracks as diverse as NASCAR with a car that is 95% the same. Obviously what is needed at Michigan is diametrically opposed to what is needed at Martinsville, but nobody wants to hear that because it costs money and is harder to police. What we have is kind of like being asked to play Augusta National with only a driver, 5 iron and a putter. Can you play? Yes. Will it be great? Not really.
 

Spotter22

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
Messages
12,238
Points
883
****** why? So stupid. Build interest. Introduce new fans....let them get close to the cars.
This is a business and sometimes you need to do things without a bunch of people watching and putting out bad info on "what they saw' which in reality is probably 100% wrong. I'm sure NASCAR will have media at the track that can talk to the CC and drivers. I don't understand why NASCAR fans think they should have unlimited access to everything NASCAR does. No offense to you personally REV but You know as well as anyone NASCAR is the most fan friendly Major Sport in the Country if not the world.
 

Formerjackman

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
5,709
Points
793
This is a business and sometimes you need to do things without a bunch of people watching and putting out bad info on "what they saw' which in reality is probably 100% wrong. I'm sure NASCAR will have media at the track that can talk to the CC and drivers. I don't understand why NASCAR fans think they should have unlimited access to everything NASCAR does. No offense to you personally REV but You know as well as anyone NASCAR is the most fan friendly Major Sport in the Country if not the world.
I would argue that IMSA and the NHRA are WAY more fan friendly than NASCAR.
 

wi_racefan

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 4, 2017
Messages
5,329
Points
773
This is a business and sometimes you need to do things without a bunch of people watching and putting out bad info on "what they saw' which in reality is probably 100% wrong. I'm sure NASCAR will have media at the track that can talk to the CC and drivers. I don't understand why NASCAR fans think they should have unlimited access to everything NASCAR does. No offense to you personally REV but You know as well as anyone NASCAR is the most fan friendly Major Sport in the Country if not the world.
Exactly this. Speeds and so many things don't matter because you're testing and a lot of times finding out what doesn't work is more important than finding something that did.

The last thing nascar needs is fans sitting in the stands complaining about something that they'll never see in competition
 

Revman

I beat your favorite driver.
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
14,397
Points
1,033
This is a business and sometimes you need to do things without a bunch of people watching and putting out bad info on "what they saw' which in reality is probably 100% wrong. I'm sure NASCAR will have media at the track that can talk to the CC and drivers. I don't understand why NASCAR fans think they should have unlimited access to everything NASCAR does. No offense to you personally REV but You know as well as anyone NASCAR is the most fan friendly Major Sport in the Country if not the world.
I hear you, but then make sure that there are plenty of pics and comments that I can geek out over. It used to be so cool when F1 unveiled their stuff then took them to Catalunya for the first test to see who had an "advantage" which may or may not have been the reality. Same vibe when they introduced the Next Gen. Give us something to blab about.

Taking your comments about NASCAR fans wanting complete access....I really don't. For example, I hate the Banquet. I feel like that should be the drivers' and teams' private party. I don't care what the girlfriends/wives look like, and I sure as hell don't need to see/hear drivers try to give a speech.

More on access....At a place like Phoenix....yes, we have great access. I want to be able to get close to the cars, and watch my heroes work on them....then, of course, I want a good vantage point to see the fruits of their labors. I also want to hear my crew chiefs and spotters talk to the drivers. Phoenix gives me all of that, but other tracks need to get to work. Hot Passes should not be exclusive to the pretty people. Without as much practice, why can't we make the garage access a paid for add on....instead of rebuilding everything the way Phoenix did?
 

Revman

I beat your favorite driver.
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
14,397
Points
1,033
Exactly this. Speeds and so many things don't matter because you're testing and a lot of times finding out what doesn't work is more important than finding something that did.

The last thing nascar needs is fans sitting in the stands complaining about something that they'll never see in competition
Let the people sample the product. It works at Costco.....the fans already complain--about everything. Testing won't change that.
 

Formerjackman

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
5,709
Points
793
Do you truly believe this?
In some ways I DO. I'm still waiting to see real crash test data comparing the previous and current generation cars. If you never let anybody see it, you can say anything you want about the results. Honestly, I think the bigger issue is that I'm not convinced that what the fans want to see is very close to what the stakeholders want to see.
 

Revman

I beat your favorite driver.
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
14,397
Points
1,033
In some ways I DO. I'm still waiting to see real crash test data comparing the previous and current generation cars. If you never let anybody see it, you can say anything you want about the results. Honestly, I think the bigger issue is that I'm not convinced that what the fans want to see is very close to what the stakeholders want to see.
Interesting perspective. Thank you. I think it is more of a thing that they do because they can and always have. Like so many other things....I'd like to see them re-think that.
 

Revman

I beat your favorite driver.
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
14,397
Points
1,033
Proudly sporting my new "43" cap today.....Let's go!
 

Spotter22

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 17, 2017
Messages
12,238
Points
883
I hear you, but then make sure that there are plenty of pics and comments that I can geek out over. It used to be so cool when F1 unveiled their stuff then took them to Catalunya for the first test to see who had an "advantage" which may or may not have been the reality. Same vibe when they introduced the Next Gen. Give us something to blab about.

Taking your comments about NASCAR fans wanting complete access....I really don't. For example, I hate the Banquet. I feel like that should be the drivers' and teams' private party. I don't care what the girlfriends/wives look like, and I sure as hell don't need to see/hear drivers try to give a speech.

More on access....At a place like Phoenix....yes, we have great access. I want to be able to get close to the cars, and watch my heroes work on them....then, of course, I want a good vantage point to see the fruits of their labors. I also want to hear my crew chiefs and spotters talk to the drivers. Phoenix gives me all of that, but other tracks need to get to work. Hot Passes should not be exclusive to the pretty people. Without as much practice, why can't we make the garage access a paid for add on....instead of rebuilding everything the way Phoenix did?
I guess they could at certain tracks but some just don't have the room that's why they try to build observation decks up above
 

Mispeedway15

Team Owner
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
4,658
Points
443
I remember talking to John Darby about the speeds the cars were traveling back when we were hitting over 200 getting in the corner at Atlanta and over 215 at Michigan and Darby said that the corner speeds were so fast we had at that time maybe 5 drivers that could handle that speed and run it and be consistent. He believed we needed to slow the cars to match the talent.
A lot of the issues with those speeds truthfully were that you could run only run one line & the design of the car allowed for so much dirty air at those speeds that passing or running close to someone at Charlotte/Atlanta/Michigan was next to impossible. IMO the fact we haven't hybridized these cars is ridiculous
 

Formerjackman

Team Owner
Joined
Aug 15, 2017
Messages
5,709
Points
793
Argue away,its what you are known for.
Well, I've never had a team owner come over and have a several minute conversation with me, (even when I had hot pass access to the garage area) or been invited behind the ropes to check out the cars up close like I have at IMSA events, nor have seen very many all inclusive fan walks or mandatory autograph sessions in NASCAR.
 
Top Bottom