2025 NASCAR TV contract

I guess I don't see the value in having no cable or broadcast partner for the Amazon races. Sure, it will get me to sign up for the minimum necessary to watch those five races. After that, I'm gone for 11 months. Maybe they're hoping newbies will see something else they like and stick around. Or maybe they assume a percentage of new subscribers will just forget to cancel.

I just wish I hadn't accidentally signed up for Prime a couple of weeks ago. The next thing I did was cancel, then set a reminder to check after 30 days to be sure the cancellation took effect. If I hadn't signed up, I could probably use that freebie in '25. Now it's shot.
 
Folks, I do not mean to sound like I'm totally against streaming services. If you like them, by all means subscribe to them. I'm just trying to point out that this "broadcasting deal" is going to effect NASCAR's audience, and unless cable and over-the-air services pretty much cease to exist I think NASCAR is counting too many chickens before they hatch. NASCAR has a track record for implementing changes that overall have not achieved the hyped expectations and have overall hurt itself.
 
This deal does NOT cater to people like me. To use it I have to pony up for service subscriptions and additional hardware so I can still get what I used to get.

This deal is bad for people like you because, if they went the way of every other sport, you could take the cable box your cable company probably charges you $12/month for and disconnect your $200/mo. television package, keep your internet for $50/mo., get a streaming stick for $12, and watch the races on Prime for $8.99/mo. on Prime and $5.99/mo. on Peacock. Even if you factor in the $20/mo. for Max Sports, you're talking about $35/mo. total - which is much, much, much, much, much, much cheaper than cable.
 
This deal is bad for people like you because, if they went the way of every other sport, you could take the cable box your cable company probably charges you $12/month for and disconnect your $200/mo. television package, keep your internet for $50/mo., get a streaming stick for $12, and watch the races on Prime for $8.99/mo. on Prime and $5.99/mo. on Peacock. Even if you factor in the $20/mo. for Max Sports, you're talking about $35/mo. total - which is much, much, much, much, much, much cheaper than cable.
Unfortunately my cable company / ISP does not offer me a deal as you describe. If I cancel the TV part of my package they will only discount my monthly service fee by about $20 - which they will overwrite within months since they raise my monthly fee a few dollars every month anyway. They won't give me Internet for $50/mo because that is only a temporary introductory rate for new customers. I have already tried to negotiate all of this. Also, they do not charge me for my cable box because they made me buy it from them years ago. I would have to use wireless transmissions inside my house (since my wiring would be obsolete) which I have found (at least in my case) to be irritating - I get jitters and freezes, and often outages during peak demand times.
 
Folks, I do not mean to sound like I'm totally against streaming services. If you like them, by all means subscribe to them. I'm just trying to point out that this "broadcasting deal" is going to effect NASCAR's audience, and unless cable and over-the-air services pretty much cease to exist I think NASCAR is counting too many chickens before they hatch. NASCAR has a track record for implementing changes that overall have not achieved the hyped expectations and have overall hurt itself.
I think the ratings will prove that to be so. But Nascar will make their nut from it despite the ratings. The streamers will lose more money and some of the deathbedders will think its the end when they see the ratings and life will continue lol.
 
I think the ratings will prove that to be so. But Nascar will make their nut from it despite the ratings. The streamers will lose more money and some of the deathbedders will think its the end when they see the ratings and life will continue lol.
Agreed, although I suspect that NASCAR will also get pressure from race sponsors and race teams because viewership numbers could hurt sponsorship deals. For example, if NASCAR's streaming-only races realize the same trouble that the NFL is having with its streaming-only Thursday night games (a significantly lower viewership) then sponsors may not be willing to back those races... which could translate into more teams and tracks without full sponsorship and / or sponsors dropping out to finance competing venues.
 
Unfortunately my cable company / ISP does not offer me a deal as you describe. If I cancel the TV part of my package they will only discount my monthly service fee by about $20 - which they will overwrite within months since they raise my monthly fee a few dollars every month anyway. They won't give me Internet for $50/mo because that is only a temporary introductory rate for new customers. I have already tried to negotiate all of this. Also, they do not charge me for my cable box because they made me buy it from them years ago. I would have to use wireless transmissions inside my house (since my wiring would be obsolete) which I have found (at least in my case) to be irritating - I get jitters and freezes, and often outages during peak demand times.
Most cable TV bundles, the TV side is at least $65/month at a discounted price.

I could “save money” by bundling according to Spectrum, but even their sales people have said that, once you add in packages that include common channels, YouTube TV at $72.99/mo is still cheaper.

One thing cable does is offer a basic package, but moves popular channels like USA or TNT to an enhanced package that’s $15/mo more, or add FS1 to a $20 package, knowing that almost every customer will end up paying $150/month (or the National average of $217/mo) when it’s all said and done just to get the main cable channels (ESPN nets, Fox Sports, TBS/TNT/Tru, USA, Freeform, Disney, MTV, Nick, Fox News/CNN/MSNBC, Discovery, History, AMC, A&E).

Some of my friends who pay $120/mo for cable don’t get FS1. Which is a mainstream channel.
 
Agreed, although I suspect that NASCAR will also get pressure from race sponsors and race teams because viewership numbers could hurt sponsorship deals. For example, if NASCAR's streaming-only races realize the same trouble that the NFL is having with its streaming-only Thursday night games (a significantly lower viewership) then sponsors may not be willing to back those races... which could translate into more teams and tracks without full sponsorship and / or sponsors dropping out to finance competing venues.

Here’s the thing about NFL’s “significantly lower viewership” for Thursday Night Football … the data shows the audience is younger and more engaged. In fact, among people age 18-34, the ratings are higher on Thursday Night Football than in the Sunday afternoon windows.

This is all way more important than total viewers.

The “total viewers” stuff is great … if you’re talking to AARP about marketing.

Also, with the NFL, you’re comparing streaming to Fox/CBS (Sunday afternoon), NBC (Sunday night) and ABC (Monday night).

With NASCAR, we’re talking about Prime’s numbers compared to FS1 and USA (which are already very very very low).
 
In fact, among people age 18-34, the ratings are higher on Thursday Night Football than in the Sunday afternoon windows.

And for sponsors, this is what matters. NASCAR has the oldest and lowest income fanbase in sports, which is why it has trouble attracting sponsors. Total number of viewers isn’t what you should care about, it’s getting the right viewers. Golf and tennis attract high end sponsors despite relatively low viewership numbers because they have the right people watching.

A good case study on this is WWE. Despite having some of the highest ratings on cable, they don’t attract the sponsors that you would think they would. Having the right demographics is more important than total viewership.
 
And for sponsors, this is what matters. NASCAR has the oldest and lowest income fanbase in sports, which is why it has trouble attracting sponsors. Total number of viewers isn’t what you should care about, it’s getting the right viewers. Golf and tennis attract high end sponsors despite relatively low viewership numbers because they have the right people watching.

A good case study on this is WWE. Despite having some of the highest ratings on cable, they don’t attract the sponsors that you would think they would. Having the right demographics is more important than total viewership.
And engagement is important too.

F1 viewers are younger, wealthier, and stay engaged (likely in part because of commercial free coverage).

Thursday Night Football viewers are more engaged than traditional viewers.
 
And for sponsors, this is what matters. NASCAR has the oldest and lowest income fanbase in sports, which is why it has trouble attracting sponsors. Total number of viewers isn’t what you should care about, it’s getting the right viewers. Golf and tennis attract high end sponsors despite relatively low viewership numbers because they have the right people watching.

A good case study on this is WWE. Despite having some of the highest ratings on cable, they don’t attract the sponsors that you would think they would. Having the right demographics is more important than total viewership.
The argument I’ve heard from people inside the industry is, “Boomers have more money than any generation in history.”

Yeah. The ones that do don’t watch NASCAR, and even if they did, they aren’t spending any of that money. So it does no good to target them.
 
Yeah. The ones that do don’t watch NASCAR,

Yeah, I don’t want to be harsh but the people screaming that they can’t “afford” streaming are not the target audience for most sponsors.

You can have an audience that is young and poor (because young people have poor money management skills) or old and rich but not old and poor. The jackpot is of course young and rich.
 
Here’s the thing about NFL’s “significantly lower viewership” for Thursday Night Football … the data shows the audience is younger and more engaged. In fact, among people age 18-34, the ratings are higher on Thursday Night Football than in the Sunday afternoon windows.

This is all way more important than total viewers.

The “total viewers” stuff is great … if you’re talking to AARP about marketing.

Also, with the NFL, you’re comparing streaming to Fox/CBS (Sunday afternoon), NBC (Sunday night) and ABC (Monday night).

With NASCAR, we’re talking about Prime’s numbers compared to FS1 and USA (which are already very very very low).
The NFL and NCAAF is always going to have more engaged fans, there’s only a handful of games lol! Reduce the cup schedule to 17 races and each race would be war
 
Wow! I would have never guessed that.
USA shed a ton of subscribers in a hurry. When it was apparent that NBCSN was being shuttered, a lot of people saw the move to USA as a growth opportunity since it really was in about 90M homes at the time, which was quite a bit more homes than NBCSN. And once they picked up the races full-time it suddenly plunged with the rest of the cable bundle.
 
The NFL and NCAAF is always going to have more engaged fans, there’s only a handful of games lol! Reduce the cup schedule to 17 races and each race would be war
The Thursday Night Football audience is more engaged than the audience for any other NFL game.

Which is astonishing since the TNF games have all been terrible. Well except for the Jaguars/Aints game that was a little too exciting for my blood pressure.
 
USA shed a ton of subscribers in a hurry. When it was apparent that NBCSN was being shuttered, a lot of people saw the move to USA as a growth opportunity since it really was in about 90M homes at the time, which was quite a bit more homes than NBCSN. And once they picked up the races full-time it suddenly plunged with the rest of the cable bundle.
NBC saw the handwriting on the wall when they shuttered NBCSN.

MOST of that **** moved to Peacock.

And some of the NBCSN NASCAR content that moved to USA performed so poorly that NBC dumped it off to the Shark Tank Channel.
 
Here’s the thing about NFL’s “significantly lower viewership” for Thursday Night Football … the data shows the audience is younger and more engaged. In fact, among people age 18-34, the ratings are higher on Thursday Night Football than in the Sunday afternoon windows.

This is all way more important than total viewers.

The “total viewers” stuff is great … if you’re talking to AARP about marketing.

Also, with the NFL, you’re comparing streaming to Fox/CBS (Sunday afternoon), NBC (Sunday night) and ABC (Monday night).

With NASCAR, we’re talking about Prime’s numbers compared to FS1 and USA (which are already very very very low).
Yes, viewer engagement is important - which has been part of my arguments. For NASCAR, the older demographic has already been engaged (although discouraged by NASCAR's marketing practices these past few decades)... I wouldn't assume that a younger audience (who might be more open to new broadcast technology but is generally less interested in cars) will be as engaged... "if you build it they will come" was better for a Hollywood movie than it is for real life.

There is an old marketing saying, "It costs five times more to acquire a new customer than it does to keep a current customer. Bringing that new customer to the spending level of your current customers costs 16 times more." Sounds like discounting the importance of current but older customers is pretty risky.

I have tried to negotiate the cable / ISP service prices that you quote. To get those I have to downgrade my service speed (which my wife will not tolerate since she works from home as a computer programmer) and go to a lower tier TV service (which as you said can drop other channels that will carry NASCAR races). The cable service company insists upon selling me a package (whether I use it all or not) and they manipulate their prices so I don't have significant savings for very long. I still have to purchase additional hardware and streaming service subscriptions. I will still have my lousy wireless problems. Overall it looks like a cost wash at best, and a lot of trouble for a product (NASCAR races) that I'm becoming marginally engaged with. So I'm not going to bother.

Although I am replying to your posts, please do not mistake that I am singling you out or disrespecting you. Just trying to convey how some of us old folks think. We've been down the road, and are familiar with folks who prod us into "upgrading" to their ways, only to find it was no real upgrade after all. Sponsors look at total number of eyeballs, and although they usually will do long term accounting and research of customer trends, they can get those total viewer numbers more quickly and with less effort (and cost) so yes "total viewers" is important to them. They are not going to limit their comparisons to whatever traffic numbers certain channels generate - they are going to look more at totals and calculate their cost per viewer. Then they decide if their return on investment is worthwhile, and compare it to several other non-NASCAR venues they could advertise with instead. I will not be surprised to see more racing teams and tracks struggling even more to obtain continued sponsorship.

Hope I am wrong. Time will tell. But NASCAR has had a knack for chasing away viewers for quite a while now, and it appears they haven't kicked that habit.
 
Yes, viewer engagement is important - which has been part of my arguments. For NASCAR, the older demographic has already been engaged (although discouraged by NASCAR's marketing practices these past few decades)... I wouldn't assume that a younger audience (who might be more open to new broadcast technology but is generally less interested in cars) will be as engaged... "if you build it they will come" was better for a Hollywood movie than it is for real life.

If we want to go the route of old fans vs. new fans, I can make the argument that those "engaged" older fans are doing more to discourage younger fans from enjoying the sport.

"NASCAR died when Dale died." The constant negativity about how NASCAR has sucked since the 1980s. And most recently, the blatant racism displayed toward the sport's lone African-American driver.

There is an old marketing saying, "It costs five times more to acquire a new customer than it does to keep a current customer. Bringing that new customer to the spending level of your current customers costs 16 times more." Sounds like discounting the importance of current but older customers is pretty risky.

Again, here's the thing. The type of package myself and @The Nature Boy wanted to see would've been significantly more cost-effective for fans of ALL ages. Keeping existing customers is costing current and new customers significantly more money - all because some of y'all can't figure out how to work a remote with six buttons.

I have tried to negotiate the cable / ISP service prices that you quote. To get those I have to downgrade my service speed (which my wife will not tolerate since she works from home as a computer programmer) and go to a lower tier TV service (which as you said can drop other channels that will carry NASCAR races). The cable service company insists upon selling me a package (whether I use it all or not) and they manipulate their prices so I don't have significant savings for very long. I still have to purchase additional hardware and streaming service subscriptions. I will still have my lousy wireless problems. Overall it looks like a cost wash at best, and a lot of trouble for a product (NASCAR races) that I'm becoming marginally engaged with. So I'm not going to bother.

I've acknowledged the problems with streaming media many times, and, this falls under that category. I'm having a similar problem with my ISP - my rates nearly doubled back in July and, at the exact same time the rate hike went into effect, my internet speeds have been throttled to exactly 1/10th of what I pay for.

What ISPs are allowed to get away with, (deregulation is usually bad for consumers and employees, and the end of net neutrality legalized many shenanigans that shouldn't be legal), should piss everyone off and honestly, should be a much larger discussion. Much of the fiber that's been laid down to provide internet access has been through "public-private partnerships," meaning the taxpayers paid for the installation of high-speed internet, and then access/control of it got handed over to some multinational corporation. I'm paying $90/month for a service that should cost $25/month tops.

Although I am replying to your posts, please do not mistake that I am singling you out or disrespecting you. Just trying to convey how some of us old folks think. We've been down the road, and are familiar with folks who prod us into "upgrading" to their ways, only to find it was no real upgrade after all. Sponsors look at total number of eyeballs, and although they usually will do long term accounting and research of customer trends, they can get those total viewer numbers more quickly and with less effort (and cost) so yes "total viewers" is important to them. They are not going to limit their comparisons to whatever traffic numbers certain channels generate - they are going to look more at totals and calculate their cost per viewer. Then they decide if their return on investment is worthwhile, and compare it to several other non-NASCAR venues they could advertise with instead. I will not be surprised to see more racing teams and tracks struggling even more to obtain continued sponsorship.

I'm one of those people who is skeptical of technological advances. Especially since I used to work in IT.

Cable television is dying. It's past time for it to die. These OTT services literally eliminate the middleman and make access to programming much more affordable.

Sponsors are definitely NOT looking at "total viewers." That's why more sponsors are leaving and not being replaced. Part of the reason NASCAR made this deal was because they were under pressure to bring home the bacon. This deal was all about the money.

Hope I am wrong. Time will tell. But NASCAR has had a knack for chasing away viewers for quite a while now, and it appears they haven't kicked that habit.

That's what NASCAR has done here. They've made the sport more expensive to watch, with a significant reduction of races available on OTA television, and they've put half of their races on cable networks that may only reach 35 million homes by 2030.

If they made the deal that some of us younger fans wanted to see, it would only cost $35/month (if you kept all three streaming services all year) to watch the races. Instead of $217 (which is the average cable/satellite TV bill in the United States).
 
Bringing that new customer to the spending level of your current customers costs 16 times more."

The problem is that NASCAR’s older fans complain about spending money, which does nothing but chase sponsors away.

And sponsors absolutely care a lot more about who is watching more than how many are watching and I gave you very specific examples to prove that point.
 
The Thursday Night Football audience is more engaged than the audience for any other NFL game.

Which is astonishing since the TNF games have all been terrible. Well except for the Jaguars/Aints game that was a little too exciting for my blood pressure.
That's interesting. I wonder if it indicates the younger demo is interested because of the scheduling on a Thursday night, or because of the distribution method? Or does it indicate that older audiences are turned off because of the scheduling or distribution?

I don't get being interested in watching something streamed one night a week, but not caring to watch it on other days via other methods. This sounds like the watch because it's available but they're not really interested in football itself. "Hey, pizza's great if I have it delivered by DoorDash on Tuesday, but I don't care to have Bob next door brings some on Saturday."

Advertisers don't care if viewers care about the content, as long as they're watching. But watching something strictly based on how it's delivered doesn't sound like a way to grow a fan base to me.
 
The NFL and NCAAF is always going to have more engaged fans, there’s only a handful of games lol! Reduce the cup schedule to 17 races and each race would be war
This overlooks multiple points.

Football teams own their event venues; there's no revenue split between team and venue. In motorsports, someone besides the teams owns the tracks, so the money has to be split.

While a venue may host less than a dozen home games, a top-tier track is lucky to have four or five top-tier events.

While there may only be a handful of games for a team in a season, there are dozens (hundreds?) of games to watch each weekend.

Football venues lean on either taxpayers or booster clubs for construction / renovations costs.

College football has a built-in set of attendees on campus. While their tickets may be subsidized, they spend a lot on food and souvenirs.

So the business model for a race track isn't comparable to football stadiums. Tracks want as many races as they can get. Reducing races means abandoning tracks, which reduced the opportunities for fans to attend. We've agreed here many times the best way to reach a new fan is to take him or her to the track. You can't do that if there isn't one near by.
 
I don't get being interested in watching something streamed one night a week, but not caring to watch it on other days via other methods. This sounds like the watch because it's available but they're not really interested in football itself. "Hey, pizza's great if I have it delivered by DoorDash on Tuesday, but I don't care to have Bob next door brings some on Saturday."
A lot of people only watch Netflix and Prime.
 
A lot of people only watch Netflix and Prime.
I get that, and I'm sure the sponsors are happy. My point is that reaching out to people who will ignore 93.75% of the weekly games doesn't seem to me like an effective way to grow the fan base. Indeed, if that's all this key demographic watches, NASCAR should have pushed for Amazon to get the races opposite the fall football games. NASCAR would the audience to itself on Sundays, regardless of who's playing on CBS and Fox.

But I'm not in the NFL's marketing department, or NASCAR's.
 
My point is that reaching out to people who will ignore 93.75% of the weekly games doesn't seem to me like an effective way to grow the fan base.

But this is nothing new. There are already a lot of people who only watch one game a week.

There are A LOT of fans who will only watch the Dallas Cowboys, which is why they're either at 4:25pm or in primetime just about every week. And their 1pm games are nationally televised too.

The millions of people who began following football on September 24, 2023 only care about player no. 87 of the Kansas City Chiefs.



If you get the Prime viewers to start playing fantasy football, you've accomplished the goal of long-term engagement. Even if they don't watch on Sunday, they're looking at box scores, logging on to fantasy leagues, refreshing the ESPN app over and over, just to see how many receptions Ja'maar Chase has or how many rushing yards Travis Etienne, Jr. has picked up, or how many yards Patrick Mahomes has thrown for, or how many turnovers the Philadelphia Eagles defense have forced. They're watching highlight clips on X (Twitter) and YouTube to see Christian McCaffery bust out a 43 yard touchdown run.
 
My point is that reaching out to people who will ignore 93.75% of the weekly games doesn't seem to me like an effective way to grow the fan base.

To add to my previous point, I didn't even bring up merchandise sales.

Thousands of "Swifties" went on Fanatics/NFL Shop and ordered their official Travis Kelce jerseys. Kelce is expected to make an additional $5 million this year, on top of his contract and his normal endorsements. So it's irrelevant to everyone that they're only watching a game when a certain pop star is in attendance. The money's still coming in.
 
To add to my previous point, I didn't even bring up merchandise sales.

Thousands of "Swifties" went on Fanatics/NFL Shop and ordered their official Travis Kelce jerseys. Kelce is expected to make an additional $5 million this year, on top of his contract and his normal endorsements. So it's irrelevant to everyone that they're only watching a game when a certain pop star is in attendance. The money's still coming in.
You've drifted away from the topic of people who only watch a sport when it's streamed. Chiefs games aren't limited to Amazon; I recall AFC home games are all on CBS. Someone somewhere probably has numbers for how many formerly streaming-only Swift fans added antennas, cable, or satellite so they could watch her main squeeze, but we won't be able to get them.

But to counterpoint, that still doesn't build fans of the sport. For the most part, only Kelce and the Chief benefit. As soon as Taylor needs material for a new album, she'll dump him, pour her heart out for several songs, and those 'fans' will leave.
 
One example compared with 32 subsidized NFL stadiums and 100+ college facilities.
It will never happen but the sporting events, races included should be on free accessible networks if they want to be subsidized by the government.

If they want the freedom to pursue the most profitable deals they should have to pay their own way. They should not get it both ways. Double dipping making people pay for it twice.
 
You've drifted away from the topic of people who only watch a sport when it's streamed.

I was referring to people who only watch one game a week and your point that it’s counterproductive to the NFL.

I recall AFC home games are all on CBS.

There is no conference alignment with TV contracts anymore.

But to counterpoint, that still doesn't build fans of the sport. For the most part, only Kelce and the Chief benefit.

The NFL has millions of new eyeballs, jersey sales, etc. And they might accomplish their goal of getting Taylor Swift to the Super Bowl, if Baltimore or Jacksonville don’t rain on that parade.

How many Swifties stick around after the inevitable breakup and new album, who knows? But the number will be greater than zero.
 
I was referring to people who only watch one game a week and your point that it’s counterproductive to the NFL.
One clarification - I'm not saying anything is counterproductive, only questioning how productive. I have the same question regarding how many new fans are drawn to NASCAR by running a race in the LA Colosseum that has little in common with the rest of the schedule.

Thanks!
 
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