23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

The charters run until the end of the year. Off season could be interesting as the deadline approaches. I have no dog in the hunt but watching billionaires playing who has the biggest balls is always interesting.
 
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aunty dive said:
High dollar law firms warming up their billing software.
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Not sure there's a lot to fight over. The service contract expired and a new one was not reached. It's not like one party is failing to hold up their end of the contract.

Heck Nascar isn't even prohibiting them from competing. They're just going to have to run as an open car


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wi_racefan said:
Not sure there's a lot to fight over. The service contract expired and a new one was not reached. It's not like one party is failing to hold up their end of the contract.

Heck Nascar isn't even prohibiting them from competing. They're just going to have to run as an open car


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Hundreds of millions of dollars to be paid out over 7 years.

You don’t think lawyers will be involved?
 
aunty dive said:
Hundreds of millions of dollars to be paid out over 7 years.

You don’t think lawyers will be involved?
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I think they'll try, but I'm not sure what the legal argument would be.

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The Nature Boy said:
They could probably file an antitrust suit against NASCAR but that would be taking a nuclear bomb to the sport for relatively petty reasons.
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Denny Hamlin is definitely petty.
 
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wi_racefan said:
Not sure there's a lot to fight over. The service contract expired and a new one was not reached. It's not like one party is failing to hold up their end of the contract.

Heck Nascar isn't even prohibiting them from competing. They're just going to have to run as an open car


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Wait until a lawyer calls them up and tells them what they want to hear. Logic and reason will go out the window.
 
BobbyFord said:
“Racecars” following each other around lap after lap, hoping for help to pass another car isn’t racing. It’s theatre.
It’s not a sport, it’s entertainment. Even that is arguable.
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Maybe they can have another in season tournament for the superspeedways and have a tag team championship (bumper tag).
 
End of the day, NASCAR is a private entity that stages a racing series. They negotiated but decided the last deal was on the table, take it or leave it, but do it by midnight Friday. Sounds like they threatened to dissolve the charter system altogether if the teams wouldn’t take the deal. Why did most do it? Charters represent a huge asset they can sell, although now they are less valuable as they have an expiration date. I suspect Jordan and Hambone have way more invested in this than current value, so likely underwater. By refusing to sign they may lose their charter, in which case team value sinks and their assets are WAY under liabilities…effectively broke.
 
lol 23XI and FRM have no leverage right now. What are they expecting NASCAR going to change in the agreement when they already have 98% of the teams signed.

Denny , I understand you wanted “stand up to the man” and fight the power, but you built a solid team with two good drivers, you have one driver that is fighting for a championship, you really wanted throw all of that away.
 
I wonder how long nascar let's these 2 teams sit on the charters before they put them up for sale? Clearly there's a market for them.

Best I can tell is there's what 6 charters up for grabs for 2025?

(2) SHR
(2) 23XI
(2) Front Row

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Ernie_Irvan#4 said:
lol 23XI and FRM have no leverage right now. What are they expecting NASCAR going to change in the agreement when they already have 98% of the teams signed.

Denny , I understand you wanted “stand up to the man” and fight the power, but you built a solid team with two good drivers, you have one driver that is fighting for a championship, you really wanted throw all of that away.
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Right or wrong he is leveraging the power of the most recognizable sports figure ever. Polk and MJ know how to do business, and there is something in all of this that is intolerable to them. It would be significant if MJ walks, and 23XI leaves.
 
StandOnIt said:
The charters run until the end of the year. Off season could be interesting as the deadline approaches. I have no dog in the hunt but watching billionaires playing who has the biggest balls is always interesting.
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No joke, and if this big dick contest goes to far, you run the risk of alienating/losing a blue collar fan base. I walked away from baseball after the strike in 1994, and I have yet to return....not so much because I am bitter, but more because I found other stuff to capture my attention.
 
Vision Racing II, coming to fill the field at an Amazon broadcast race near you...
 
Revman said:
Right or wrong he is leveraging the power of the most recognizable sports figure ever. Polk and MJ know how to do business, and there is something in all of this that is intolerable to them. It would be significant if MJ walks, and 23XI leaves.
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Leverage what? NASCAR existed way before MJ and they’ll be here after MJ. This isn’t the NBA Labor negotiations where the stars are the show and the league needs them to be the show. Polk and MJ are in nascar’s sandbox where NASCAR owns the tracks, control tv money, and probably a lot of things I’m forgetting that make NASCAR the only show in town.
 
Jorge De Guzman said:
Leverage what? NASCAR existed way before MJ and they’ll be here after MJ. This isn’t the NBA Labor negotiations where the stars are the show and the league needs them to be the show. Polk and MJ are in nascar’s sandbox where NASCAR owns the tracks, control tv money, and probably a lot of things I’m forgetting that make NASCAR the only show in town.
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You know what they say? You need Nascar but Nascar doesn't need you I believe it goes.
 
Does having a high profile owner benefit a sport? MJ's not participating, just writing the checks. How much of a bounce did Pitbull bring, and has it lasted?

I ask this as a general sports question, not specific to 23XI or Trackhouse.
 
Well IMO I think Jordon and Hamlin have their ying yang's hanging out. They have everything to lose and nothing to gain. I have no idea what their hang ups are, but with all who have signed up to go on, some will miss them, but most won't after a few races without them being in the field. That's the cold hard facts. Others will scarf up their sponsors if possible, buy their stuff for pennies on the dollar and that is that.
Soon after that, there will be talk of new teams to fill the void.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Does having a high profile owner benefit a sport? MJ's not participating, just writing the checks. How much of a bounce did Pitbull bring, and has it lasted?

I ask this as a general sports question, not specific to 23XI or Trackhouse.
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I think high profile owners can be a good thing if they bring money and positive attention to the sport. Keeping MJ as an owner would be desirable but he has to abide by the same rules as others or he can go do his thing elsewhere.
 
StandOnIt said:
Well IMO I think Jordon and Hamlin have their ying yang's hanging out. They have everything to lose and nothing to gain. I have no idea what their hang ups are, but with all who have signed up to go on, some will miss them, but most won't after a few races without them being in the field. That's the cold hard facts. Others will scarf up their sponsors if possible, buy their stuff for pennies on the dollar and that is that.
Soon after that, there will be talk of new teams to fill the void.
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Exactly. Michael Jordan is playing a game that he can only lose.
 
StandOnIt said:
Well IMO I think Jordon and Hamlin have their ying yang's hanging out. They have everything to lose and nothing to gain. I have no idea what their hang ups are, but with all who have signed up to go on, some will miss them, but most won't after a few races without them being in the field. That's the cold hard facts. Others will scarf up their sponsors if possible, buy their stuff for pennies on the dollar and that is that.
Soon after that, there will be talk of new teams to fill the void.
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The sponsors they're bringing aren't likely to care to join Rick Ware Racing or Spire just to be in the series without MJ being involved. Otherwise we wouldn't have had the last 15 years of NASCAR increasingly requiring drivers to bring funding to get into the sport.
 
virtualbalboa said:
The sponsors they're bringing aren't likely to care to join Rick Ware Racing or Spire just to be in the series without MJ being involved. Otherwise we wouldn't have had the last 15 years of NASCAR increasingly requiring drivers to bring funding to get into the sport.
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Doesn't matter if they go or stay, that is their choice. But others will definitely try to get some of them including Nascar themselves. That is the way it works.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Three years ago people here assured me that if MJ wanted two more charters, NASCAR would create some especially for him. Now he's gambling with the ones he has.
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IMO MJ is playing a game of chicken he can’t win. I’m sure someone will let him know how things are and he’ll come to his senses soon.
 
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