23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

Revman said:
That's complimentary toward Denny, right? He built his value. She was born into it. Denny had more to lose. I think he is doing okay.
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I don't have numbers but suspect Kelley has built much more than she started with from inheritance. I'm guessing DEI wasn't worth as much in 2025 dollars as JRM is.
 
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The first post that I posted was comparing Hamlin and Kelly having a common interest. Revman going on a Hamlin crusade was optional lol.
 
Revman said:
....and maybe not changing is okay.....teams will be more viable, and not close up shop?
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Some seem to believe they will immediately start throwing stupid money around. Maybe. I'd hope the turndown of last 20 years taught them something. We shall see. I mean...how much can they spend on this stupid junk kit car? Can't test. Can't build parts. It's all computer sim. How much does that cost?
 
KTMLew01 said:
Some seem to believe they will immediately start throwing stupid money around. Maybe. I'd hope the turndown of last 20 years taught them something. We shall see. I mean...how much can they spend on this stupid junk kit car? Can't test. Can't build parts. It's all computer sim. How much does that cost?
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Turndown? Turnover? DOWNTURN! That's the one. Whoops.
 
Revman said:
....and maybe not changing is okay.....teams will be more viable, and not close up shop?
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I can't see any more viability out of what came out of this settlement. They will still spend whatever more they have received and they only other thing more they get is selling the charter when they get out.
 
wi_racefan said:
I can't see any more viability out of what came out of this settlement. They will still spend whatever more they have received and they only other thing more they get is selling the charter when they get out.
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I hear you, but doesn't the game change when you "overspend" knowing that you will get a ROI when/if you decide to get out? Doesn't that keep the series "viable?" Overspending, and losing your ass when you get out isn't a good look....doesn't encourage participation. Disclaimer: I suck at business thinking....so I a not trying to be argumentative (not that that will stop @StandOnIt from shooting his shot).....just asking here.....
 
KTMLew01 said:
Some seem to believe they will immediately start throwing stupid money around. Maybe. I'd hope the turndown of last 20 years taught them something. We shall see. I mean...how much can they spend on this stupid junk kit car? Can't test. Can't build parts. It's all computer sim. How much does that cost?
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I don't think sim costs, but the people who are good at it are elite. Jazzy Jeff Curtis formerly of JGR I think now with Poor Richard is an example.....also suspected of sharing proprietary information with rival teams (read Poor Richard), and ejected from JGR. He came with a price....Poor Richard must have sold some of that wine of his.
 
wi_racefan said:
I can't see any more viability out of what came out of this settlement. They will still spend whatever more they have received and they only other thing more they get is selling the charter when they get out.
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I don't see Nascar being run by a committee is anything to get excited about or thinking things will be run more efficiently with more cooks in the kitchen. They will manage to outspend themselves either way while ignoring their core fan base and chasing the casual fans to satisfy the TV people.
 
“NASCAR today announced that Steve Phelps has made the personal decision to step away from the company and his role as Commissioner of America’s top motorsport. Phelps, who joined NASCAR in 2005, will transition out of the company by the end of the month leaving a legacy of leadership and a strategic vision that delivered significant growth and lasting innovation, championed equity and social justice initiatives, and created industry-wide opportunities for all stakeholders.”

Not surprised. When you make such huge mistakes and lose the trust the owners and drivers, you are toast.
 
Terrible for the sport, weakens its leadership. The long term negative effects like this are still to come. Unfortunately this fanbase will cheer as too many are far too short sighted and hateful of the organization.
 
kkfan91 said:
Terrible for the sport, weakens its leadership. The long term negative effects like this are still to come. Unfortunately this fanbase will cheer as too many are far too short sighted and hateful of the organization.
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Phelps was better than many give him credit for. Those text messages, and his rant against Childress, did him in. Losing trust is a death blow in business.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Jim France was and is not going to be the person to take the hit on this. It's gonna be the cronies. I'd feel bad for them but they all have immense personal wealth and don't need to work again a day in their lives.
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There's the first head in the bucket. Stick it on a spike by the Daytona entrance gates while the Frances relube the guillotine and drag the next victim up the steps.

Anyone think the relatively new office of commissioner will go unfilled for several months, maybe the entire season?
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Alas, Old Friend, just a mere two weeks and you've been left behind like a five-lug wheel. :(
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Oh, I apologize, Old Friend. I gave up on you too early. One bolt of lightning and you've lurched off the platform to resume terrorizing the villagers!
 
virtualbalboa said:
Jim France was and is not going to be the person to take the hit on this. It's gonna be the cronies. I'd feel bad for them but they all have immense personal wealth and don't need to work again a day in their lives.
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Huh? Steve Phelps isn't the one paying for the court case settlement and the Lawyer's fees.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Jim France was and is not going to be the person to take the hit on this. It's gonna be the cronies. I'd feel bad for them but they all have immense personal wealth and don't need to work again a day in their lives.
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Can't fire the owner, as they say. Well, I guess Brian France proved that it can happen, but the threshold is high.
 
StandOnIt said:
Huh? Steve Phelps isn't the one paying for the court case settlement and the Lawyer's fees.
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Had Jim listened to Phelps, he probably wouldn't be paying any of that money. Unfortunately, he didn't, and Jim France also decided not to settle in such a manner that ensured Phelps be exposed in the way he was to the garage. I don't think Phelps has necessarily helped anything significant for me as a fan per se - the net popularity of the sport since his arrival is -65% - but he also isn't IMO the primary responsible party. He worked for that party, and that party is, as @gnomesayin points out, effectively unfireable.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Had Jim listened to Phelps, he probably wouldn't be paying any of that money. Unfortunately, he didn't, and Jim France also decided not to settle in such a manner that ensured Phelps be exposed in the way he was to the garage. I don't think Phelps has necessarily helped anything significant for me as a fan per se - the net popularity of the sport since his arrival is -65% - but he also isn't IMO the primary responsible party. He worked for that party, and that party is, as @gnomesayin points out, effectively unfireable.
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I believe you said his cronies will take the hit. I disagree. I don't care about who should have listened to who or who hit John.
 
Main drivers of NASCAR viewership falling off, in my expert opinion, are:

1. Car culture is dying/dead. For most people under age of 35 a car is both a luxury and a tool. No more value that the washing machine. Like the washer, can just go to the laundromat, Uber.
2. Too many channels to keep up with. If I decide to watch, have to go to NASCAR.Com and find out where the damn show is this week. Hate that.
3. For the dedicated old fan...this new car is like bamboo shoots under the fingernails. HATE IT! Everything is Pentagon level secret. I want technical info!
4. The presentation of the races are somewhat fake now. Some races are covered from a totally different city/state. Might as well watch golf.
 
StandOnIt said:
I believe you said his cronies will take the hit. I disagree. I don't care about who should have listened to who or who hit John.
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Jim France could sit on the beach and enjoy many lifetimes worth of passive income like other members of the family from whom we never hear. He instead chooses to be hands on. His choices included not settling with the teams before the trial and before the unrelated documents from discovery were released. Jim's choices also include holding Phelps responsible for Jim's own decisions. Even now, Jim France and the other members of the family can count on some folks giving them a pass as though MJ and Judge Bell held a gun to their collective heads. Maybe that's how this becomes treated now: poor smol bean NASCAR against the big baddies! Phelps had to get fired, you see, because somethingsomething Denny Hamlin.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Jim France could sit on the beach and enjoy many lifetimes worth of passive income like other members of the family from whom we never hear. He instead chooses to be hands on. His choices included not settling with the teams before the trial and before the unrelated documents from discovery were released. Jim's choices also include holding Phelps responsible for Jim's own decisions. Even now, Jim France and the other members of the family can count on some folks giving them a pass as though MJ and Judge Bell held a gun to their collective heads. Maybe that's how this becomes treated now: poor smol bean NASCAR against the big baddies! Phelps had to get fired, you see, because somethingsomething Denny Hamlin.
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I don't know what or where any of this has to do wit Steve Phelps losing his job because of his criticism of Richard Childress that came to light but do continue. Freak freely.
 
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Highlighted component. Phelps criticism of RCR is never known if Jim France doesn't balk at cash damages/legal fees requested by FRM and 23XI that he wound up paying anyways. Jim France and Jim France alone is why you know that happened. Imagine being Steve Phelps then. You spend 20 years carrying this guy's water for him day in and day out. You try to convince him to think differently and move in a different direction more in line with the changing world around him, and he just rejects it because it affects his bottom line to do anything new. All the teams already hate you (because you're doing what your boss tells you to) and on the occasions you get to speak with them candidly, you basically explain to them that you're trying and it ain't easy and you all know why.

In the end, Steve Phelps lost his job. Is it his fault? I mean, technically it is. He said a mean thing about someone who was daring to do something that wasn't what his boss wanted, which is also a thing his boss seemed to value in his team members and do himself. That mean thing only become public knowledge because your bosses' infinite ignorance, he let it get out there and completely wiped out your ability to function and be taken seriously by your collaborators (team owners, OEMs). In fact, maybe that's really what the issue was. Phelps was also revealed, as was O'Donnell, of basically trying to portray themselves as the "good cop" to those folks. That makes your boss the bad cop and a bad cop who has just been hammered for a month straight by everyone for being the bad cop (to say nothing of his RCR/Hillin Jr. stunt!). They're all getting fired, and they're getting fired because NASCAR settled. But they aren't getting fired because NASCAR can't afford them. They're getting fired because someone has to take the fall, and it won't be the family.
 
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