# 31 ----winless champ ---even closer now !

I'm not as much against the chase as I am in favor of traditional racing concepts . Qualifying is simple , fastest car gets the pole slowest starts last . The championship is simple..best car all year wins . Look,we all know that you can't manufacture drama , it has to happen on it's own or it looks fake .
 
After Newman failed to win the title during his 8 win season, if he is able to win it this year while going winless, well the irony would be nothing less than hilarious.

Another reason I'd like to see Newman win the championship is that it would be kind of funny if Harvick was at RCR all those years and couldn't get it done, then Newman comes in and wins the championship his first year there.
2 great reason we have here
 
What do you guys think of changing the points system so that you earn 52 points for winning, instead of 46?
 
What do you guys think of changing the points system so that you earn 52 points for winning, instead of 46?
actually the winner would get 47 points, but to your question, if winning is the goal of Nascar, then winning should get a big bump over 2nd place.
 
:rolleyes:

Man.. how old were u when the chase came around? Like 9? 10 years old? Chances are the only reason u hate it because ur Dad does lol... do u even remember watching NASCAR before then? U were a child. You can say whatever u want but you know as well as I do that you've spend the majority of your time as a fan hating the product but likely still watching every single race... it must be tiring.. I mean you've spent nearly half your life hating something you love because of something you have no control over.


Good one sliced. Keep em going. Whining all the way to Homestead or bust. :headbang:
 
After Newman failed to win the title during his 8 win season, if he is able to win it this year while going winless, well the irony would be nothing less than hilarious.
At least, if he does win the championship, I'll be glad he has one to make up for '03.
 
At least, if he does win the championship, I'll be glad he has one to make up for '03.

No doubt he should have won it in 03, but the big difference here is that IMO he doesn't even deserve to be in the conversation for it this year.

He's had a solidly average year, coming off back to back top 5 finishes; he still has less top 5's than Kez and Logano have wins. He has no poles, no wins, and really has only had maybe 1 or 2 chances at a win. All this to say, it would be funny to see him win it all when there are other drivers who are much more deserving, but that's just my opinion.
 
I'm really hoping both Newman Kenseth advance to Homestead without a win. That would be half the contenders with no wins battling for the championship. I can only imagine all the head spinning that would take place in the NASCAR box and in Daytona if one of them were to win it.
 
I'm really hoping both Newman Kenseth advance to Homestead without a win. That would be half the contenders with no wins battling for the championship. I can only imagine all the head spinning that would take place in the NASCAR box and in Daytona if one of them were to win it.

It is real possible that all of the chasers advance without a win to Homestead. too many good cars competing out there with only two races left until the final race.
 
No doubt he should have won it in 03, but the big difference here is that IMO he doesn't even deserve to be in the conversation for it this year.

He's had a solidly average year, coming off back to back top 5 finishes; he still has less top 5's than Kez and Logano have wins. He has no poles, no wins, and really has only had maybe 1 or 2 chances at a win. All this to say, it would be funny to see him win it all when there are other drivers who are much more deserving, but that's just my opinion.
I completely agree. What he's done best is protect the equipment (only Dillon and Gordon have completed more laps) and consistently finish in the Top 10 and Top 20 (he actually has the most Top 20 finishes). Not a championship season in my mind, but I would like to see him make up for '03.
 
I'm really hoping both Newman Kenseth advance to Homestead without a win. That would be half the contenders with no wins battling for the championship. I can only imagine all the head spinning that would take place in the NASCAR box and in Daytona if one of them were to win it.
If that happens, I'd look for NASCAR to add some kind of clause next year to where you can make the chase with no wins, but can't advance to the final four without one. So basically, if you make the chase without a win, you better win one of those next nine races if you wanna be eligible for the championship at Homestead.
 
:rolleyes:

Man.. how old were u when the chase came around? Like 9? 10 years old? Chances are the only reason u hate it because ur Dad does lol... do u even remember watching NASCAR before then? U were a child. You can say whatever u want but you know as well as I do that you've spend the majority of your time as a fan hating the product but likely still watching every single race... it must be tiring.. I mean you've spent nearly half your life hating something you love because of something you have no control over.

Condescending 101.
Perhaps the wiser pro elimination folks should have the little dissenters submit resumes prior to participating.
 
We can all talk about this until we're blue in the face. The point is, as has been stated repeatedly for months now, that the winner of this championship format can very likely be somebody who does not "deserve" it in the eyes of any level-headed race fan. Any points system when a driver can have an average finish of 1.3 up until Homestead and still lose to a driver who has an average finish of 13.4 by finishing 5th while the latter finishes 4th is extremely flawed.
 
Yea, I dunno about 03.
I think he definitely should have. He had four more wins than the next-winningest driver (Kurt Busch - 4), two more Top 5s than the next driver (17; Jeff Gordon - 15), and more Top 10s than everyone except Kenseth (22 versus 25).

He had two mechanical failures like Kenseth did and was taken out in five crashes not of his own doing (Atlanta is the only race he can take even partial blame), and I don't think those outliers should drop a driver so much.
 
We can all talk about this until we're blue in the face. The point is, as has been stated repeatedly for months now, that the winner of this championship format can very likely be somebody who does not "deserve" it in the eyes of any level-headed race fan. Any points system when a driver can have an average finish of 1.3 up until Homestead and still lose to a driver who has an average finish of 13.4 by finishing 5th while the latter finishes 4th is extremely flawed.
that is a matter of opinion. If you are stuck on stupid and you haven't figured out that this year is different and that stuff doesn't matter you are having a miserable time of it. My condolences to all, but like Dsquad48, I figured out a long time ago that the new format is what it is, and some of us don't spend much time crying over spilt milk, life is too short for that..
 
Condescending 101.
.
Perhaps, but I agree with SB and it's hard to ignore he's one opinionated snot nosed twerp. IIRC he's just 21 or 22 yet look at all the knowledge he spews from his mush filled skull.
 
Last edited:
I think he definitely should have. He had four more wins than the next-winningest driver (Kurt Busch - 4), two more Top 5s than the next driver (17; Jeff Gordon - 15), and more Top 10s than everyone except Kenseth (22 versus 25).

He had two mechanical failures like Kenseth did and was taken out in five crashes not of his own doing (Atlanta is the only race he can take even partial blame), and I don't think those outliers should drop a driver so much.
Ehh, I dunno, FL.

I think that when you have seven of those DNF outliers compared to only two for Kenseth (the second of which came after he had already clinched the title), that should definitely hurt you, and obviously it hurt Newman. Having good luck and avoiding wrecks has always been part of the game.
 
I wonder how many fans are truly fans of the chase? I can't think of a single diehard fan that likes it.

I wonder how many fans are truly fans of the chase?

Pushrod, A very good question. My answer is I am a Nascar Race Fan first and foremost, I do not care what points system is in place, because ultimately it does not matter what points system is in place, because everyone is shooting from the same gun. (except Jeff Gordon last year getting a freebie).

But if I had to pick a points system for Nascar, this year ain't it!
 
Ehh, I dunno, FL.

I think that when you have seven of those DNF outliers compared to only two for Kenseth (the second of which came after he had already clinched the title), that should definitely hurt you, and obviously it hurt Newman. Having good luck and avoiding wrecks has always been part of the game.
A -5 DNF margin should not nullify (and then some; he finished 311 points back) a +7 win margin and a +6 Top 5 margin.
 
that is a matter of opinion. If you are stuck on stupid and you haven't figured out that this year is different and that stuff doesn't matter you are having a miserable time of it. My condolences to all, but like Dsquad48, I figured out a long time ago that the new format is what it is, and some of us don't spend much time crying over spilt milk, life is too short for that..
You sure do spend a good deal of time insulting those who dislike the Chase. I guess life's not too short for that, huh?
 
If that happens, I'd look for NASCAR to add some kind of clause next year to where you can make the chase with no wins, but can't advance to the final four without one. So basically, if you make the chase without a win, you better win one of those next nine races if you wanna be eligible for the championship at Homestead.

I started thinking along those lines after Jr's win yesterday, but a bit different. You form the chase like they did this year, where the 16 drivers make it. But then if any of those 16 drivers win any of the first 9 chase races, it automatically qualifies a driver to win the championship at Homestead. That ensures that the champion will have won a race. Also, you'd have almost as many as 9 drivers racing for the championship at Homestead, which means the drivers are going to have to race hard there. With that many drivers to compete against, probably going to have to finish top 3, if not win at Homestead to win the championship. Now a person may say what incentive would a driver have to win any of the remaining chase races if they've already assured themselves a spot at Homestead? The incentive is pretty simple: you're trying to eliminate as much of the competition if possible. Win 2 chase races, that's only 7 others you have to compete against at Homestead.....win 3, it's down only 6 others, and so on.
 
The drivers are amped up about the chase...with the emotions it has created, the brain will not want to change
 
I started thinking along those lines after Jr's win yesterday, but a bit different. You form the chase like they did this year, where the 16 drivers make it. But then if any of those 16 drivers win any of the first 9 chase races, it automatically qualifies a driver to win the championship at Homestead. That ensures that the champion will have won a race. Also, you'd have almost as many as 9 drivers racing for the championship at Homestead, which means the drivers are going to have to race hard there. With that many drivers to compete against, probably going to have to finish top 3, if not win at Homestead to win the championship. Now a person may say what incentive would a driver have to win any of the remaining chase races if they've already assured themselves a spot at Homestead? The incentive is pretty simple: you're trying to eliminate as much of the competition if possible. Win 2 chase races, that's only 7 others you have to compete against at Homestead.....win 3, it's down only 6 others, and so on.
This could very well happen too. So if this was the case this year, we'd have Kez, Logano, Gordon, Harvick, and Jr locked into the Homestead Bowl. Even if a driver won Homestead and was locked in, they'd still have motivation to win other chase races, because every race they win is a race someone else doesn't (i.e. less competition at Homestead). It would also keep all 16 chasers alive until Phoenix. If NASCAR is going for the drama angle, your idea may be a pretty good one.
 
It would be ******* funny if Newman second-placed his way in to the final four and then won Homestead. :XXROFL:
It actually hasn't been uncommon for a driver to get their only win in the last race of the season. Morgan Shepherd did it in 1990, Mark Martin in '91, Bobby Labonte in '96 and '97, Jerry Nadeau in '00, Robby Gordon in '01, and Denny Hamlin last year. In addition, Carl Edwards only 2 wins of 2010 were the last two races of the season.
 
It actually hasn't been uncommon for a driver to get their only win in the last race of the season. Morgan Shepherd did it in 1990, Mark Martin in '91, Bobby Labonte in '96 and '97, Jerry Nadeau in '00, Robby Gordon in '01, and Denny Hamlin last year. In addition, Carl Edwards only 2 wins of 2010 were the last two races of the season.

I know, I'm just saying it would be funny because of the freakout session we'd see on Racing-Forums.com. :)
 
I started thinking along those lines after Jr's win yesterday, but a bit different. You form the chase like they did this year, where the 16 drivers make it. But then if any of those 16 drivers win any of the first 9 chase races, it automatically qualifies a driver to win the championship at Homestead. That ensures that the champion will have won a race. Also, you'd have almost as many as 9 drivers racing for the championship at Homestead, which means the drivers are going to have to race hard there. With that many drivers to compete against, probably going to have to finish top 3, if not win at Homestead to win the championship. Now a person may say what incentive would a driver have to win any of the remaining chase races if they've already assured themselves a spot at Homestead? The incentive is pretty simple: you're trying to eliminate as much of the competition if possible. Win 2 chase races, that's only 7 others you have to compete against at Homestead.....win 3, it's down only 6 others, and so on.

9 drivers. That'd be pretty crazy.
 
A -5 DNF margin should not nullify (and then some; he finished 311 points back) a +7 win margin and a +6 Top 5 margin.

By the way, what point system would you have used?

The IndyCar system would have Newman win.
 
I would love it if Newman won. It would mean Brian will need to stop the darn antics and just let these men and woman fight without the freaking gimmicks.

Newman has always been fast. Now, he's just as consistent as he ever was. I'm still amazed at his 50 poles in what 11-12 years? He's just been solid and has been getting what he can, when he can. He may have lucked his way in, but he is damn sure making the most of it.

Timing matters quite a bit in NASCAR. He and Kenseth have been getting it right. What is even scarier is that he's getting hot at the most important time. This is the essence of what clutch is and I know RCR... His car will be bulletproof, not the fastest, but the reliable as hell.
 
By the way, what point system would you have used?

The IndyCar system would have Newman win.
Directly ripping off from other organizations I would use the 1) FIA system and then the 2) IndyCar system in that order. Using IndyCar's, Newman would've won by 34 points over Kenseth.

Without ripping off from those, you can still come up with a reasonable system that decreases the total number of points available, awards a fixed number of points to finishers below a certain position, and has increasing intervals between positions the further up the running order you go.
 
IMO, there's no way to balance wins vs consistency every year.

Split the championship money between wins champ and points champ. If you're good enough, you win the unified championship and don't share the stage with anyone. That would pretty much guarantee 1 championship battle won't be settled until the last race is over.
 
IMO, there's no way to balance wins vs consistency every year.

Split the championship money between wins champ and points champ. If you're good enough, you win the unified championship and don't share the stage with anyone. That would pretty much guarantee 1 championship battle won't be settled until the last race is over.

Personally, I think that sounds weird. Cause there's always been one champion.
 
I know, I'm just saying it would be funny because of the freakout session we'd see on Racing-Forums.com. :)

The real freak out would be in the NASCAR boardroom, Brian France looks around at all his yes men and wonders how his masterful plan crumbled into pure nonsense.
 
Personally, I think that sounds weird. Cause there's always been one champion.

Not according to many, who say the champ isn't the real champ. It seems half the fans feel consistency should decide the championship, and the other half say wins should. The BIGGEST complaint about Matt being champ with 1 win was Newman winning 8 that year.
 
Last edited:
I'm not as much against the chase as I am in favor of traditional racing concepts . Qualifying is simple , fastest car gets the pole slowest starts last . The championship is simple..best car all year wins . Look,we all know that you can't manufacture drama , it has to happen on it's own or it looks fake .

Such simple concepts, yet so far from the France reality...why is that?
 
Not according to many, why say the champ isn't the real champ. It seems half the fans feel consistency should decide the championship, and the other half say wins should. The BIGGEST complaint about Matt being champ with 1 win was Newman winning 8 that year.
This format rewards both consistency and wining and still will not please everyone. There isn't a format that they could come up with that could please everyone.
 
Back
Top Bottom