April possible date for future spring NASCAR PIR race?

And here I thought the lack of fans was due to the cars being too loud..... Now I read that it's the competition with the Cactus League. I'm guessing the Cactus League isn't suffering the same lack of fans that NASCAR is. If that were the case, the Cactus League would have to change their Sunday date.

Pre-season baseball is now our downfall? What's next?
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
And here I thought the lack of fans was due to the cars being too loud..... Now I read that it's the competition with the Cactus League. I'm guessing the Cactus League isn't suffering the same lack of fans that NASCAR is. If that were the case, the Cactus League would have to change their Sunday date.

Pre-season baseball is now our downfall? What's next?
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Just think how bad things could have been had the incident between Kyle and JLo not happened as I read that it would result in better attendance and more viewers.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
And here I thought the lack of fans was due to the cars being too loud..... Now I read that it's the competition with the Cactus League. I'm guessing the Cactus League isn't suffering the same lack of fans that NASCAR is. If that were the case, the Cactus League would have to change their Sunday date.

Pre-season baseball is now our downfall? What's next?
Click to expand...

Spring Training Baseball is huge here in Phoenix and it isn't just one team but half the MLB including the Chicago Cubs and LA Dodgers which have huge followings in the Phoenix area. I actually couldn't make the race because I had friends in town that wanted to go to the baseball game (15,500 at last night's Cubs game and it could have been easily 35k if they had the seats, the games have been sold out for weeks). Plus March is the worst time to get a hotel room because of all the golf in the area. Moving the race to the first or second weekend in April would be a smart move.
I also agree with the west coast swing issue. I would be more likely to travel to Cali or Vegas if the Phoenix race weren't the week before/after. It is usually a one or the other deal with the races being so close together due to time and funding.
 
LouieLouie said:
Spring Training Baseball is huge here in Phoenix and it isn't just one team but half the MLB including the Chicago Cubs and LA Dodgers which have huge followings in the Phoenix area. I actually couldn't make the race because I had friends in town that wanted to go to the baseball game (15,500 at last night's Cubs game and it could have been easily 35k if they had the seats, the games have been sold out for weeks). Plus March is the worst time to get a hotel room because of all the golf in the area. Moving the race to the first or second weekend in April would be a smart move.
I also agree with the west coast swing issue. I would be more likely to travel to Cali or Vegas if the Phoenix race weren't the week before/after. It is usually a one or the other deal with the races being so close together due to time and funding.
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Thanks for the local take. I am amazed that Spring Training Baseball is that big in Phoenix. The golfing, I understand. I'm sure the heat yesterday didn't help the walk up numbers, regardless of whether it's a "dry heat." :)
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
And here I thought the lack of fans was due to the cars being too loud..... Now I read that it's the competition with the Cactus League. I'm guessing the Cactus League isn't suffering the same lack of fans that NASCAR is. If that were the case, the Cactus League would have to change their Sunday date.

Pre-season baseball is now our downfall? What's next?
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Any excuse to put blame on anything else other than the fact Nascar is at fault.
 
NJJammer said:
Thanks for the local take. I am amazed that Spring Training Baseball is that big in Phoenix. The golfing, I understand. I'm sure the heat yesterday didn't help the walk up numbers, regardless of whether it's a "dry heat." :)
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Yeah Spring Training baseball here in Phoenix is a cultural thing. Kind of like, St. Patrick's Day in NY or Chicago (Some of the biggest St. Patrick's Day parades in the country).
 
Mopardh9 said:
Nascar has only itself to blame for falling attendance and falling tv ratings.
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I was referring strictly to yesterday's race, that the attendance may have been down at least partly due to the weather and partly due to competing events (baseball, golf tournament).

But I don't hold NASCAR 100% responsible for the long-term decline either. People's tastes change. Blaming NASCAR 100% for the decline is like giving the 100% credit for the increase of the late '90s and early '00s. They weren't 100% responsible for that either. I will grant you they didn't manage that boost very well, incorrectly anticipating that it was a permanent increase.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I was referring strictly to yesterday's race, that the attendance may have been down at least partly due to the weather and partly due to competing events (baseball, golf tournament).

But I don't hold NASCAR 100% responsible for the long-term decline either. People's tastes change. Blaming NASCAR 100% for the decline is like giving the 100% credit for the increase of the late '90s and early '00s. They weren't 100% responsible for that either. I will grant you they didn't manage that boost very well, incorrectly anticipating that it was a permanent increase.
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I think they were responsible for the majority in that boost in the 90s and early 2000s, they (Nascar) marketed their product correctly, capitalized on the demand. We have seen a decline in the product presented, Nascar has alienated it's core fan base in search of the me generation, instant gratification crowd....it's not working for them obviously with attendance falling off a cliff right now. Improve the product, not with gimmicks and band aids, address the true problems facing the sport and things would improve dramatically.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I was referring strictly to yesterday's race, that the attendance may have been down at least partly due to the weather and partly due to competing events (baseball, golf tournament).

But I don't hold NASCAR 100% responsible for the long-term decline either. People's tastes change. Blaming NASCAR 100% for the decline is like giving the 100% credit for the increase of the late '90s and early '00s. They weren't 100% responsible for that either. I will grant you they didn't manage that boost very well, incorrectly anticipating that it was a permanent increase.
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Just like the overblown housing market of a decade ago, there is plenty of blame to go around. Banks, mortgage brokers, real estate agents and buyers themselves all share in the blame for the real estate market bubble. NASCAR became too faddish and subsequently faltered once the "hot" trend wore off and the realities of the "smartphone" era took off and diminished people's attention spans, the importance and immediacy of attending live events as well as people's interest in motor vehicles as more than just a means of transportation. That's my $0.02. Take it for what it's worth.
 
LouieLouie said:
Spring Training Baseball is huge here in Phoenix and it isn't just one team but half the MLB including the Chicago Cubs and LA Dodgers which have huge followings in the Phoenix area. I actually couldn't make the race because I had friends in town that wanted to go to the baseball game (15,500 at last night's Cubs game and it could have been easily 35k if they had the seats, the games have been sold out for weeks). Plus March is the worst time to get a hotel room because of all the golf in the area. Moving the race to the first or second weekend in April would be a smart move.
I also agree with the west coast swing issue. I would be more likely to travel to Cali or Vegas if the Phoenix race weren't the week before/after. It is usually a one or the other deal with the races being so close together due to time and funding.
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Great info to have and it amazes me how well spring baseball draws.
 
NJJammer said:
Just like the overblown housing market of a decade ago, there is plenty of blame to go around. Banks, mortgage brokers, real estate agents and buyers themselves all share in the blame for the real estate market bubble. NASCAR became too faddish and subsequently faltered once the "hot" trend wore off and the realities of the "smartphone" era took off and diminished people's attention spans, the importance and immediacy of attending live events as well as people's interest in motor vehicles as more than just a means of transportation. That's my $0.02. Take it for what it's worth.
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NASCAR made a huge mistake when all the fans flocked to the series and instead of managing the growth they built a bunch of soulless behemoths on which to race. NASCAR didn't kill the goose that laid the golden egg but they sure beat the crap out of it.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
NASCAR made a huge mistake when all the fans flocked to the series and instead of managing the growth they built a bunch of soulless behemoths on which to race. NASCAR didn't kill the goose that laid the golden egg but they sure beat the crap out of it.
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There are way too many 1.5 milers in the inventory. I'm sure the newly minted MBAs were advising and convincing ISC and SMI that 1.5 milers were the best investment due to the fact that if the growth trend continued, they could encircle the tracks with at least 150K seats and they figured the "cookie cutters" provided the best speed/size ratio. Everyone was too busy counting all the money they would make if trends continued. Wrong.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I was referring strictly to yesterday's race, that the attendance may have been down at least partly due to the weather and partly due to competing events (baseball, golf tournament).

But I don't hold NASCAR 100% responsible for the long-term decline either. People's tastes change. Blaming NASCAR 100% for the decline is like giving the 100% credit for the increase of the late '90s and early '00s. They weren't 100% responsible for that either. I will grant you they didn't manage that boost very well, incorrectly anticipating that it was a permanent increase.
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We went to the 400 in Daytona a couple times when it was a day race, after the second time we said no way jose are we doing that again. Four to five hours sitting in Florida in July at 90+ degrees, 90% humidity and no air movement will take all the fun out of a race.

When they moved to the night race, we have had season tickets ever since, see my seats below.

20160701_190726_resized.jpg
 
LouieLouie said:
Spring Training Baseball is huge here in Phoenix and it isn't just one team but half the MLB including the Chicago Cubs and LA Dodgers which have huge followings in the Phoenix area. I actually couldn't make the race because I had friends in town that wanted to go to the baseball game (15,500 at last night's Cubs game and it could have been easily 35k if they had the seats, the games have been sold out for weeks). Plus March is the worst time to get a hotel room because of all the golf in the area. Moving the race to the first or second weekend in April would be a smart move.
I also agree with the west coast swing issue. I would be more likely to travel to Cali or Vegas if the Phoenix race weren't the week before/after. It is usually a one or the other deal with the races being so close together due to time and funding.
Click to expand...
So, I guess Phoenix should be able to pack them in come November without the MLB conflict. :D
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I was referring strictly to yesterday's race, that the attendance may have been down at least partly due to the weather and partly due to competing events (baseball, golf tournament).

But I don't hold NASCAR 100% responsible for the long-term decline either. People's tastes change. Blaming NASCAR 100% for the decline is like giving the 100% credit for the increase of the late '90s and early '00s. They weren't 100% responsible for that either. I will grant you they didn't manage that boost very well, incorrectly anticipating that it was a permanent increase.
Click to expand...
I think they were responsible for the majority in that boost in the 90s and early 2000s, they (Nascar) marketed their product correctly, capitalized on the demand. We have seen a decline in the product presented, Nascar has alienated it's core fan base in search of the me generation, instant gratification crowd....it's not working for them obviously with attendance falling off a cliff right now. Improve the product, not with gimmicks and band aids, address the true problems facing the sport and things would improve dramatically.
dpkimmel2001 said:
So, I guess Phoenix should be able to pack them in come November without the MLB conflict. :D
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NFL
 
Weird how the Grapefruit League didn't seem to have any effect on the Daytona 500.

They're running out of things to blame here. I could buy that people have saved up for the Final Four in a couple of weeks. Not so much that exhibition baseball is more of a priority - at least, I would hope not.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
So, I guess Phoenix should be able to pack them in come November without the MLB conflict. :D
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I didn't say NASCAR wasn't at fault, but having a home Football game when the Cardinals are a potential Superbowl team playing a game a few miles up the road certainly doesn't help, and neither does the Cactus League in which the Cubs have just won the WS (Did I mention the large amount of transplants from Chicago that live in Phoenix).

I'm certainly not a fan of the on-track product right now, but you have to give NASCAR a little wiggle room. Going up against other major cultural events just isn't a fair fight. But there is no excuse for low tv ratings since those should be national. I wonder how the Phoenix tv ratings compare to the national average for the race?
 
FLRacingFan said:
Weird how the Grapefruit League didn't seem to have any effect on the Daytona 500.

They're running out of things to blame here. I could buy that people have saved up for the Final Four in a couple of weeks. Not so much that exhibition baseball is more of a priority - at least, I would hope not.
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Comparing the Superbowl (Daytona 500) to a week 3 football game (Phoenix race) is not the same.

Also, the Grapefruit League spans across many different cities in FL that are few hours apart. The Cactus League is only in the Phoenix area in which the furthest two stadiums are less than an hour apart. Most of the stadiums are less than 30 minutes from each other.

"Nearly a third of spring training’s economic impact came from Arizona residents, and Arizonans bought 42 percent of the 1.9 million tickets sold, according to a Cactus League report." https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2016/02/23/cactus-league-economic-impact-valley-arizona/

42% of 1.9 million is a hell of a lot locals.

AZ Cardinals average attendance for 2016, 64,800. That's just the people that go into the game. Many people just sit in the parking lots and tailgate. And with the Cards a potential Superbowl contender, many would choose to watch football at home than go to the race.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/250072/average-home-attendance-of-the-arizona-cardinals/

Again, not saying NASCAR isn't at fault, but you have to give them a little leeway when it comes to local competition. They should move the race to April.
 
There's always an excuse of some outside influence being the reason for low attendance/viewership. A day will hopefully come where they finally decide to look within the sport itself. This week the excuse is preseason baseball. What's it gonna be next week and the week after that?
 
LouieLouie said:
Comparing the Superbowl (Daytona 500) to a week 3 football game (Phoenix race) is not the same.

Also, the Grapefruit League spans across many different cities in FL that are few hours apart. The Cactus League is only in the Phoenix area in which the furthest two stadiums are less than an hour apart. Most of the stadiums are less than 30 minutes from each other.

"Nearly a third of spring training’s economic impact came from Arizona residents, and Arizonans bought 42 percent of the 1.9 million tickets sold, according to a Cactus League report." https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2016/02/23/cactus-league-economic-impact-valley-arizona/

42% of 1.9 million is a hell of a lot locals.

AZ Cardinals average attendance for 2016, 64,800. That's just the people that go into the game. Many people just sit in the parking lots and tailgate. And with the Cards a potential Superbowl contender, many would choose to watch football at home than go to the race.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/250072/average-home-attendance-of-the-arizona-cardinals/

Again, not saying NASCAR isn't at fault, but you have to give them a little leeway when it comes to local competition. They should move the race to April.
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Has attendance not been generally good recently? The previous six spring races were 2/27, 3/04, 3/03, 3/02, 3/15, and 3/13 - all when spring training is going on. What changed?

There will always be something else to compete against. We can't cram every race into July and August when there's nothing but baseball going on. At some point the excuseapalooza needs to stop. Move it to April and whenever the Coyotes and Suns are good again NASCAR will being have a whinge over how too many people are gearing up for the NBA and NHL Playoffs.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
There's always an excuse of some outside influence being the reason for low attendance/viewership. A day will hopefully come where they finally decide to look within the sport itself. This week the excuse is preseason baseball. What's it gonna be next week and the week after that?
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Agree, NASCAR is broken. It should be stealing fans from other events, not the other way around.

FLRacingFan said:
Has attendance not been generally good recently? The previous six spring races were 2/27, 3/04, 3/03, 3/02, 3/15, and 3/13 - all when spring training is going on. What changed?
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The Chicago cubs won a World Series. :)
Also the weather warms up toward the end of March so more AZ locals tend to go to those games rather than the earlier ones. I don't have stats on this other than how empty the office is toward the end of the month.

I think we are talking about less than 10k fans missing. I'm pretty sure both Phoenix races are generally well attended, but same ole same ole...NASCAR has a problem. We all know that and we all have ideas on how to fix it. (New cars and shorter tracks).

We all wish NASCAR had attendance and viewership like the NFL but until then, it will have to compete for fans and if it is going to have to compete for fans, it is probably wise not to go up against juggernauts that attract nearly 800k local residents.
 
sdj said:
I think the 95 degree heat plus sitting in direct sunlight had a lot to do with the low turnout, to me 45 thousand showing up may be a blessing.
Rattlesnake hill looked like a lot of folks.
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If 95 degree weather in Phoenix is now a problem, better build a dome or relocate northward (like to Canada). They're setting records for the most 100 and 110 degree days year after after.
 
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