Are all the teams merging together??

Thegeneral23

Thegeneral23

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Is this alliance thing getting out of hand? If not can someone please make me understand how it isn’t please lol.. it seem like all these teams are basically the same damn team now.. now you got Richard petty teaming up with Chevy .. there goes another ford team with another Chevy in the field.. you got JTG linking up with hendrick.. basically the wood brothers should just be Penske that 21 car was at the shop right beside the others.. TRUEX should just be part of Joe Gibbs basically the same thing.. and I heard more can’t remember off the top of my head.. it’s already weird to me that teams get there engines from hendrick .. Kyle Larson engine failing like 3 straight weeks especially when he needed it the most is just crazy to me.. what’s next Penske and SH teaming up too..
 
Thegeneral23 said:
Is this alliance thing getting out of hand? If not can someone please make me understand how it isn’t please lol.. it seem like all these teams are basically the same damn team now.. now you got Richard petty teaming up with Chevy .. there goes another ford team with another Chevy in the field.. you got JTG linking up with hendrick.. basically the wood brothers should just be Penske that 21 car was at the shop right beside the others.. TRUEX should just be part of Joe Gibbs basically the same thing.. and I heard more can’t remember off the top of my head.. it’s already weird to me that teams get there engines from hendrick .. Kyle Larson engine failing like 3 straight weeks especially when he needed it the most is just crazy to me.. what’s next Penske and SH teaming up too..
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They have to just to have a shot against those badass TRD powered Toyota Racing Camrys. :D
 
Uh, this has been going on to some degree for more than 20 years. Sabco, JGR, MB2 and Stewart Haas were all Hendrick spinoffs that at one point or another got engines and or cars from the mother ship. Way back in the early 80's, Junior Johnson supplied engines for Mach One (Harry Gant). JTG has had an alliance with RCR for years, and is just now switching their engineering alliance to Hendrick. Engines may follow. The Wood Brothers were paired up for years with Roush before teaming up with Penske. As the cost of racing spiraled out of control in the 90's the ONLY way for smaller operations to get started or survive was to team up with an established operation. The cost to start an engine program alone, between the machinery and the employees would be astronomical in today's world. The return on investment just doesn't justify it when you can write check and get front line equipment.
 
Formerjackman said:
Uh, this has been going on to some degree for more than 20 years. Sabco, JGR, MB2 and Stewart Haas were all Hendrick spinoffs that at one point or another got engines and or cars from the mother ship. Way back in the early 80's, Junior Johnson supplied engines for Mach One (Harry Gant). JTG has had an alliance with RCR for years, and is just now switching their engineering alliance to Hendrick. Engines may follow. The Wood Brothers were paired up for years with Roush before teaming up with Penske. As the cost of racing spiraled out of control in the 90's the ONLY way for smaller operations to get started or survive was to team up with an established operation. The cost to start an engine program alone, between the machinery and the employees would be astronomical in today's world. The return on investment just doesn't justify it when you can write check and get front line equipment.
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Do you guys like this though? It’s like everybody is one big team lol
 
The problem with all the Ford teams aligning with Roush is/was Roush refused to keep up and went on the cheap. So now they have Penske as the mother ship for all future Fords. SHR could afford to go it alone but building an engine program would be to expensive. Penske proved their ability by being the only Dodge on the track racing with in house engine and proved their capability by winning the Championship against all odds.
Teams are changing their alliance to HMS, not because they want to but because they all know in 2 yrs or less there will be no RCR/GM team. They would all have to go Dodge.
Of course this will all change when Nissan starts a team. :D
 
I'm not a big fan of it, but economics are economics. One of the big things that used to separate the performance of the cars was the engines. Now, all the competitive teams get their engines from just four engine builders. Sad, but I don't think you can turn back that clock. I especially don't like the TRD business model, but what can you do?
 
Formerjackman said:
I especially don't like the TRD business model, but what can you do?
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I am biased, but I think TRD operates much like any other builder. They have a budget (contrary to popular belief), and have to consistently prove their worth to Toyota NA and Japan. Toyota writes checks to TRD just like Chevy to Hendrick, and Ford to Roush. I am sure that fingers will blister in reply to my post, but reality isn't as fun as perception in this instance.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm not a big fan of it, but economics are economics. One of the big things that used to separate the performance of the cars was the engines. Now, all the competitive teams get their engines from just four engine builders. Sad, but I don't think you can turn back that clock. I especially don't like the TRD business model, but what can you do?
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What is the difference? TRD builds and controls the engines for Toyota.
Ford and Rouch/Yates control the Ford engines.
HMS controls most GM engines.
RCR in conjunction with DEI started their own engine shop and Richard has kept it going.
Smart move because it looks like he gets to switch to Dodge and will be the supplier
for all future Dodge teams.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm not a big fan of it, but economics are economics. One of the big things that used to separate the performance of the cars was the engines. Now, all the competitive teams get their engines from just four engine builders. Sad, but I don't think you can turn back that clock. I especially don't like the TRD business model, but what can you do?
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TRD gets there engines from Toyota so what’s the big deal?
 
I kinda figured a lot of you guys wouldn’t like what’s going on .. I wish this could change also
 
Thegeneral23 said:
TRD gets there engines from Toyota so what’s the big deal?
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The block and cylinder head castings have Toyota part numbers on them. The blocks are cast in Brazil.

Everything else is sourced from outside suppliers or manufactured by TRD ... the people who develop and actually build the engines.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm not a big fan of it, but economics are economics. One of the big things that used to separate the performance of the cars was the engines. Now, all the competitive teams get their engines from just four engine builders. Sad, but I don't think you can turn back that clock. I especially don't like the TRD business model, but what can you do?
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Nothing.

Time passes and business models change for economic and other reasons. There is no reason for this situation to be different.
 
Thegeneral23 said:
TRD gets there engines from Toyota so what’s the big deal?
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I'm just not a fan of the factory supplying the teams with engines. GM has taken some of their sportscar racing engines back in house, and I don't like that either. For one thing, if you have a reliability or power issue, where do you turn? A few years ago, the GM Daytona Prototype teams dumped CRD engines and went to ECR. If you get your engines from the factory and they suck, what now? I always though one of things that made the Chevy NASCAR motors so good was for awhile you had Hendrick VS RCR VS DEI, VS JGR. They all collaborated with GM on the R07 engine design, and then went out and tried to out power each other, which in my opinion improved the breed. One shop thinking can often lead to stagnation and a lack of new ideas.
 
Simple money. Smithfield left the 43, rcr lost menard. Repaint all the 27 cars, which I am sure rcr said hey these were menards cars he spent big money with us, they are the best cars we have. Wonder what happens with all of pettys ford cars they built. Petty needed to do something anyways, they needed support from a big team.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm just not a fan of the factory supplying the teams with engines. GM has taken some of their sportscar racing engines back in house, and I don't like that either. For one thing, if you have a reliability or power issue, where do you turn? A few years ago, the GM Daytona Prototype teams dumped CRD engines and went to ECR. If you get your engines from the factory and they suck, what now? I always though one of things that made the Chevy NASCAR motors so good was for awhile you had Hendrick VS RCR VS DEI, VS JGR. They all collaborated with GM on the R07 engine design, and then went out and tried to out power each other, which in my opinion improved the breed. One shop thinking can often lead to stagnation and a lack of new ideas.
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RCR and DEI were one and the same engine shop and was the product of Dale Earnhardt himself. Dale Sr was the man in charge and picked the people who ran it. After his widow ruined the whole thing, Richard bought her out.
That's my recollection of things.
 
Richard Petty's 1969 Ford. Owned by Petty Enterprises. Built by Holman-Moody, set up by Holman-Moody. An early technical alliance, and Petty won the very first time he raced the Holman-Moody car... beating David Pearson in the Holman-Moody works entry. Ain't nothing new here.

pettytorino69_sm_a.jpg
 
Team Penske said:
RCR and DEI were one and the same engine shop and was the product of Dale Earnhardt himself. Dale Sr was the man in charge and picked the people who ran it. After his widow ruined the whole thing, Richard bought her out.
That's my recollection of things.
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ECR was not formed until 2007. Before that, DEI and RCR had separate engine operations.
 
It doesn't seem like it was that long ago when a Nascar team could change engine and chassis suppliers a few times a season if that is what they wished but that model has changed. Many industries have seen multiple mergers and amalgamations in the past 25 years and I suspect the concentration will continue.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I thought DEI and RCR had an engine alliance with Andy Petree, the RAD (Richard-Andy-Dale) operation.
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I believe RAD was more of an aero alliance. For a few years, those three teams dominated restrictor plate racing. I don't believe engines were included in that. I'm not saying those teams didn't share engine information (I have no idea) but the engine shops weren't under one umbrella until much later. Going off the top of my head, I think Ritchie Gilmore ran the DEI engine shop and maybe Danny Lawrence the RCR?
 
How about a Ford Fusion running a Childress GM Motor? Thats gonna blow a few minds on here. :D
cp3 mb.jpg
 
Non-realistic bodies on late models has always been one of my pet peeves.
 
Revman said:
They have to just to have a shot against those badass TRD powered Toyota Racing Camrys. :D
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You're so full of yourself you've become a caricature around here.
 
Spotter22 said:
Late Model bodies have been stretched and twisted for decades. I think they look bad ass.
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Here's how far I go back with this; in 1982, my high school shop teacher, who was a second generation late model racer, built a new 82' Firebird. THE ONLY curves on that car were the wheel wells. That entire body could be made with a sheet metal break and shear. I ragged his ass for three years about that ugly car. I nearly did cartwheels down the street when the ASA went to template bodies in 1992. Every time I see a dirt late model, I want to drive an ice pick through my eyeballs. Those aren't cars, they're doorstops! Stock cars are just that, CARS, and they should look like it. I also have a real problem with cars that don't run back windows, and ones that are completely open at the taillight panel. The first race car I ever worked on was when my Uncle built a semi-late model in 1984. It was a 70' A body Ed Howe chassis with a 79' Camaro body. I was adamant that the car be as neat and as stock appearing as possible, and the only concessions to that were the IROC nose and the L88 hood scoop. No "Frankencars" for me.
 
Team Penske said:
The problem with all the Ford teams aligning with Roush is/was Roush refused to keep up and went on the cheap. So now they have Penske as the mother ship for all future Fords. SHR could afford to go it alone but building an engine program would be to expensive. Penske proved their ability by being the only Dodge on the track racing with in house engine and proved their capability by winning the Championship against all odds.
Teams are changing their alliance to HMS, not because they want to but because they all know in 2 yrs or less there will be no RCR/GM team. They would all have to go Dodge.
Of course this will all change when Nissan starts a team. :D
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Nissan...really do tell?
 
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