Autoweek: Chase Elliott winning is the fix NASCAR needs the most

I've been saying since the first TV deal was signed that NASCVAR would have been far better off to take less money up front in exchange for keeping ALL of the Cup races on air networks and tier one cable networks like ESPN 1 and TNN (at that time). NASCAR's dependence on outside sponsorship dollars means that they have more of a need to be on networks that will provide them with exposure than some other sports would require.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
How about supplying them with competitive racing, so they'll be fans of the sport itself instead of individual drivers? How about a points and championship system that doesn't take a 3-credit hour college class before new fans can understand?
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The NFL championship system is equally convoluted. What is a conference? What is a division? Why does my team play the New York Giants twice every year, but never play the New York Jets? Why do 8-8 teams get in and 10-6 teams don't? Why is Kansas City west but Dallas is east and Indianapolis is south? Why is quantum physics easier than the hierarchy of tie breakers?

Almost all sports that strive for commercial success have playoffs or other post-season championship formats. None of them are necessary for sporting reasons. They all exist strictly for sales and marketing purposes. And yet the beat goes on... beating that dead horse. Why do fans complain about Nascar but not MLB? After 2,400 baseball games, we can't figure out who won the most? Ha ha.
 
Revman said:
You cannot talk about Martin without talking about Sherry.
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Why not?

Sherry and Martin certainly aren't responsible for what the media chooses to cover or ignore. If a public figure has an opportunity to leverage his or her fame for a greater goal, that's his or her right. But it quite possible to talk about people without having to mention their significant other, their medical issues, or their other personal problems. It definitely isn't necessary to bring up those subjects the majority of the time.
 
LewTheShoe said:
The NFL championship system is equally convoluted. What is a conference? What is a division? Why does my team play the New York Giants twice every year, but never play the New York Jets? Why do 8-8 teams get in and 10-6 teams don't? Why is Kansas City west but Dallas is east and Indianapolis is south? Why is quantum physics easier than the hierarchy of tie breakers?

Almost all sports that strive for commercial success have playoffs or other post-season championship formats. None of them are necessary for sporting reasons. They all exist strictly for sales and marketing purposes. And yet the beat goes on... beating that dead horse. Why do fans complain about Nascar but not MLB? After 2,400 baseball games, we can't figure out who won the most? Ha ha.
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Lemme explain the NFL playoffs as I would for a newcomer to the game:

The teams that win their 4-team divisions make the playoffs. There are also four slots for teams that have the best records but didn't win their divisions. From there on out, it's win or go home.

Now that doesn't cover all the details, but it's enough to get a newbie through. I'd like to see the Chase summed up as succinctly.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Lemme explain the NFL playoffs as I would for a newcomer to the game:

The teams that win their 4-team divisions make the playoffs. There are also four slots for teams that have the best records but didn't win their divisions. From there on out, it's win or go home.

Now that doesn't cover all the details, but it's enough to get a newbie through. I'd like to see the Chase summed up as succinctly.
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The Nascar playoff includes all regular season race winners, then the best scoring non-winners to complete the 16-team field. There are three elimination rounds with the four lowest scoring teams getting the ax after each round. That leaves four teams alive for the championship at the final race... best finish among that four is the champion.

BTW, your NFL summary is lame as it doesn't explain divisions and conferences and non-balanced scheduling. All three are essential components of the championship format. You have assumed prior knowledge of how the competition is structured. Essentially, your summary started at second base.
 
LewTheShoe said:
All three are essential components of the championship format.
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We'll have to disagree on how essential those concepts are for a beginner. Your explanation doesn't any explanation of scoring, or how a team can be 'lowest scoring' with one win and two 40th-place DNFs but still advance, concepts I consider essential.
 
To me, the relevant question isn't how the NASCAR playoffs compare to NFL playoffs and which is more convoluted and therefore inferior. The mistake was trying to emulate team sports in auto racing. Grafting that type of season format onto the schedule isn't a sensible way to crown a season champion. Yes, it was done for commercial reasons, but it has not been commercially successful. About 20 weeks of playoffs hype every year has resulted in discernable increased interest for one race: the Homestead finale. This failure should be taken into account when evaluating the supposed need for a postseason.

FWIW, many observers do complain about the length of the MLB season, as well as the NBA and NHL. Many do balk at the dilution of expanded playoffs rounds in those leagues. But it doesn't matter, because motorsports is not team athletics.
 
gnomesayin said:
FWIW, many observers do complain about the length of the MLB season, as well as the NBA and NHL.
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Your post is a thoughtful reply, but I don't hear anyone advocating for the MLB, NBA, or NHL champion to be crowned at the end of a balanced-schedule regular season. No one is demanding to do that for sporting purposes, i.e. for the championship to be "legitimate." And yet, essentially all of the arguments that Nascar's post season makes the championship "illegitimate"... essentially all of these arguments apply equally to stick-and-ball leagues.

There is no single right way to structure the competition in racing. Whether it's the structure of the event, or the structure of the year's championship... there are many options and many opinions, but no absolute truths. Personally, in Nascar stock car racing, I favor incentives to "go for the win" and oppose incentives for conservative points racing. Just my $0.02.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Your post is a thoughtful reply, but I don't hear anyone advocating for the MLB, NBA, or NHL champion to be crowned at the end of a balanced-schedule regular season. No one is demanding to do that for sporting purposes, i.e. for the championship to be "legitimate." And yet, essentially all of the arguments that Nascar's post season makes the championship "illegitimate"... essentially all of these arguments apply equally to stick-and-ball leagues.

There is no single right way to structure the competition in racing. Whether it's the structure of the event, or the structure of the year's championship... there are many options and many opinions, but no absolute truths. Personally, in Nascar stock car racing, I favor incentives to "go for the win" and oppose incentives for conservative points racing. Just my $0.02.
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Probably because those respective playoffs have been around for decades and the NASCAR Playoffs is still a relatively young concept. In that regard it is not unlike the various major college football postseason formats used over the last quarter of a century, all hotly debated.

FWIW, it is very hard to deny those respective leagues water down their regular seasons a great deal with their expansive playoffs (particularly the NBA and NHL). Does it hurt them commercially? I'm not sure. The NBA could seemingly have any variation of regular season lengths and postseason formats and still be wildly successful at its current rate.
 
I don't see a guy like Chase becoming the transcendent figure Gordon was that leads NASCAR into its next golden age. That possibility just doesn't exist anymore, IMO. One guy alone is not going to stop a flood.

Formerjackman said:
I've been saying since the first TV deal was signed that NASCVAR would have been far better off to take less money up front in exchange for keeping ALL of the Cup races on air networks and tier one cable networks like ESPN 1 and TNN (at that time). NASCAR's dependence on outside sponsorship dollars means that they have more of a need to be on networks that will provide them with exposure than some other sports would require.
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Agree with this. The teams still generate the vast majority of their revenues from sponsorship, and TV ratings are still a key metric there. Nice paycheck for NASCAR and the tracks but not so much the ones who people watch for each week.
 
LewTheShoe said:
There is no single right way to structure the competition in racing. Whether it's the structure of the event, or the structure of the year's championship... there are many options and many opinions, but no absolute truths. Personally, in Nascar stock car racing, I favor incentives to "go for the win" and oppose incentives for conservative points racing. Just my $0.02.
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I think most comparisons to "stick and ball" are misguided, so the debates about those sports can be had separately.

I will say this: the fact that MLB plays a 162-game regular season, then decides a playoff spot in each league via a one game play-in 'wild card' match, is ludicrous and stupid.

IMO, playoffs are a natural fit in sports where events consist of direct match play, and less so in competitions in which the entire field is essentially always competing against each other.

For racing, I believe some systems are better than others, and it's relative. The best structure is a season-long points accumulation with a points scale heavily skewed toward race wins and top performance. Unfortunately, this is fairly hard to find, and most points systems in most major series do not sufficiently reward winning.

@StandOnIt is right that this has veered OT, and I apologize for belaboring. However, I don't think the original subject of the thread had much juice left. Maybe this should just become the new random NASCAR debate thread. ;)
 
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Playoffs would be fine if it weren't for the fact that there's 36, 32, 28, 24 (or so) cars out of the "playoffs".

I always thought 50 points for a race winner, 39-1 for 2nd on down with the current updated stage system of 5 points-1 point and a season long points battle would be a solid way of doing things. Race winner still gets the most points no matter what.
 
The season long points system is my preference BUT if we can't have that then
I prefer 26 races and the top 10 qualify for the "race off" in which they all race
the final 10 races and the one with the most points wins the championship. Those final races
they could start with 1 point per position (reward) or start even.
 
Team Penske said:
The season long points system is my preference BUT if we can't have that then
I prefer 26 races and the top 10 qualify for the "race off" in which they all race
the final 10 races and the one with the most points wins the championship. Those final races
they could start with 1 point per position (reward) or start even.
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Like the original chase

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
LewTheShoe said:
The NFL championship system is equally convoluted. What is a conference? What is a division? Why does my team play the New York Giants twice every year, but never play the New York Jets? Why do 8-8 teams get in and 10-6 teams don't? Why is Kansas City west but Dallas is east and Indianapolis is south? Why is quantum physics easier than the hierarchy of tie breakers?

Almost all sports that strive for commercial success have playoffs or other post-season championship formats. None of them are necessary for sporting reasons. They all exist strictly for sales and marketing purposes. And yet the beat goes on... beating that dead horse. Why do fans complain about Nascar but not MLB? After 2,400 baseball games, we can't figure out who won the most? Ha ha.
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Totally disagree, the Playoff system in the stick and ball sports is much easier to understand than NASCAR, so is the points structure.
 
KDB has won this years championship, most points.
the last 10 races dont mean anything, they should all be plate races so they wreck all the cars, and get new ones for next year.
 
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