At most, three drivers will advance to Phoenix by winning a race in stage three. That means at least one of the final four will be in based on points. Ask Denny Hamlin how much stage points mattered after the Hail Melon.
The Hail Melon didn't crown a champion though, and it happening still doesn't establish that there was any value to "playoff points" or "stage points" necessarily. I mean, isn't the reason the "points matter" because Ross Chastain literally passed Hamlin doing that at Martinsville? As in if he had not specifically passed Hamlin, it wouldn't have mattered?
You can't win the title if you're not in the final four.
If Ross hadn't had those stage and playoff points, then therecwould have been no reason to try passing Hamlin. He'd have already been out.
But like, how did they affect that? There is a quantitative value to these points that could be determined as how they affect the title hunt vs. literally any other factor such as simple finishing position. If the end result isn't really affected, then the points don't matter all that much. If the best argument is that it might have had an effect on who wound up finishing 4th in the 2022 title hunt, I don't really see how that's a serious concern for Kyle Larson in the here and now as to whether or not he wins a title.
I don’t understand the question. Maybe someone else can answer it. I've replied in as practical terms as I can.
It's one of the many questions a made for Tv playoff system brings. None of which has much to do with actual racing IMO.
100% of the population who watched the 1910 World Series is dead. That does not mean that the 1910 World Series killed those people. Similarly, each point can put a team into the playoffs....or a win can. If wins are disproportionately distributed among playoff contenders at the close of the season, then the points inherently mean much less as far as being a factor in progressing through the playoffs, and certainly to being champion.
I know the I should care, but.....you know how this will end. Joe isn't. What's the definition BTW?
Equally, to what degree has the lack of points cost somebody the championship. We can do this all day. Larson blows the field away on Regular Season and virtually locks in his place in the Final Four if he doesn't skip one. This is a fight because he did what he did. Maybe @StandOnIt could lobby for some extra points for the dirt stuff.
You DO realize the Indy deal was an official Hendrick endeavor, right? Kyle didn't leave his team holding ANYTHING. The decision to attempt the double was TEAM decision. The decision to stay in Indy was a TEAM decision. When the whole deal went to hell in a hand basket, it was a TEAM deal. If there is any blame to be assigned, then it falls on HMS, not Kyle.
Kyle had no voice? My ass. Do you really believe that the guys in the pits, the road crew, and even Cliff had anything to do with it? That's the team. If you are talking about Jeffy, Chadly, and The Felon? Yeah, probably, but that's not the team. That's leadership above team. The Felon marginalized NASCAR, and pissed them off. Why do you think they took so long to grant the waiver? He poked the Big Bill NASCAR is bigger than you narrative. I am thinking that NASCAR is probably okay with Kyle screwing himself on this. Might even teach The Chain Gang some humility.
Nothing is going to change the fact that Larson is one of the greatest if not the greatest in modern day that ever drove a race car. So cry boy cry. It won't change a thing.
Ross beat Hamlin by 4 points after the Hail Melon. He carried 21 playoff points into that round compared to 13 for Denny. If he didn’t have that cushion not even that last-gasp move at Martinsville would’ve saved him.
It's was Kyle's idea and desire to do the double. After that, HMS took the ball and ran with it. The "team" knows who their driver is and the fact that any ONE of his extra-curricular activities could have a negative effect on their championship aspirations. My guess is they really don't have an issue with it. If they did, I'm sure they could get themselves assigned to one of the other HMS cars or over at JRM. You're drilling in a dry hole here. If there is an issue with the 5 car, it's Kyle's all too frequent mistakes in the Cup car, not what he's doing elsewhere. As for NASCAR, that's just being them their standard issue hypocritical self. They were lapping up all the free publicity over the double when it suited their needs. Once the plan got wrecked by circumstances that were out of anyone's control, they got all butt hurt. Nothing new there. If Kyle is on top of his game come the start of the playoffs, it won't matter how few bonus points he has. If keeps driving like he has lately, then it's all a moot point.
Kyle has slipped up before and marginalized NASCAR. This is nothing new. The plan got wrecked, but it was the choice Kyle and The Chain Gang made that pissed NASCAR off, and it should. I don't think that the NBA would love the idea of MJ **** canning a few regular season games in favor of playing in Europe....and I don't think his team mates would appreciate that either if it cost them a championship. I don't think it is too far fetched to think that there are some bonuses involved when a team wins a championship....and a few bonus points for the Regular Season Championship? Those "few" bonus points almost carried MTJ to the Final Four, and he was terrible in the Playoffs last year. Kyle would have been a Phoenix lock. Bottom line....I'm pissed because I want to beat that SOB straight up with no excuses. He and The Chain Gang created one. Not great for the sport.
Well, you harp on trophies as a measure of success. MY Toyotas with three. Kyle? 1....unless we count the 20 million dirt ones he has won in Bumble****, Indiana or something.
Good point, but you don't know what you need in the Playoffs to get to Phoenix until you're screwed.
Lol. compares a whole Cup organization, all of the rice burners, 20 years of trying, to one driver, Larson lol. The Hudsons and the yotas are tied with only three championships. Let's get that straight.
I think there are a lot of other things they’d look back on if they miss out on the regular season title beyond simply missing the 600. The loose wheel at Texas, stuffing it in the barrier at Chicago, and losing it on his own at Michigan all stand out as major fumbles. He was still in good standing coming out of Charlotte but threw a lot of points away over the summer.
NASCAR was only pissed when it didn't work out the way they thought it was. NASCAR wasn't the least bit worried about being "marginalized" when they were basking in the glory of t
Don't know why that posted before I finished, but NASCAR was thrilled until the clock struck midnight and their prom date was dancing with somebody else. How NASCAR "feels" about anything is generally about as far down my list of concerns as you can possibly get. As far as bonuses and such, when you sign up to race with Kyle Larson, you know what the deal is. It either works for you or it doesn't. If you're good enough to work on that team, you can likely work anywhere. Is TRD going to make up any missed bonuses on the 11 car for their total screwup?
This is a good question. When TRD took over the engine building duties, they brought the JGR tuners in house....even Cronquist. So, the line between TRD and JGR is very blurry.....and if I understand this correctly, the engine was sent to Costa Mesa when it should have gone to NASCAR. So, the responsibility for this is shared...but it really doesn't matter as David Wilson has always said that TRD and JGR operate as one. Do those on the #11 team who had nothing to do with this deserve an explanation and/or restitution. Yes. Will they get it? Nope.
But does the seeding make any difference? I think that lock into the Final Four for him is the issue. Allowing Reddick into the game isn't too much of a threat just yet, but who knows? He is on a roll.
True. Kyle has had the kind of year where he should be crushing the competition though. He missed an opportunity to put his foot on the throats of those he is trying to beat. He will have to beat three others in Phoenix. Like lapping a big player in any race, you want to put them a lap down if you get a chance. Cracking the door always leaves open possibilities.
You have? I don't think anyone noticed.
Hell yeah lol Listen. After watching Carl Edwards come up short, I want all the "championships" I can getYou have? I don't think anyone noticed.
The seeding itself is meaningless. The only value of the playoff points is to determine which non-winners advance after each round. There's nothing any driver can do in the regular season to 'put his foot on the throats' of others or figuratively 'put them a lap down'. Four drivers will advance to Phoenix but at least two and likely three will get there based on third round wins. There's nothing a driver can do during the regular season to affect the performance of his eventual playoff opponents, short of going full-blown Dillon on them. Rack up all the playoff points possible, rip off 26 straight wins, win the regular season; none of that will handicap your opponents in any way once the playoffs start. You may be able to point your way through to Phoenix but you still have to beat three other guys head to head.
Exactly. The big teams are already building specific cars for the various tracks in the playoffs. Nobody in the top of the standings are going anywhere until later in the lottery because most of them have plenty of boo boo points if they have a bad race. It makes it almost impossible to stand on anybodies throat.
Hamlin didn't choose it. Apples to oranges.
I don't agree. Lock into Phoenix with the Regular Season Championship, and let the rest scrap and claw. You can control what you can control. He didn't. There is a likelihood that he won't win in each round. Points will matter. He got stung in Charlotte a few years ago. Take nothing for granted. He did.
Oh I realize what Hamlin lost. You are comparing two situations that are nothing alike, but that won't stop you from trying. I like the idea of Denny going on to win the whole thing, and listening to you all offseason. I am speaking it into existence.
Does the inventory support that? How many cars do they have at a given time? 8?
How many do you need? Short, road race, intermediate.
