Bristol grandstands OUUUUUCH!!!!!!

AndyMarquisLive said:
Like I said, an age old NASCAR strategy. They've moved both Martinsville dates to some of the worst weather weekends imaginable and they moved the Bristol race up. When this happened several years ago (2003, 2004?"), there was a lot of talk (especially on the NASCAR forums and stuff) about whether it was being done to tank attendance so the races could be moved to bigger tracks in bigger markets. This was around the same time the Southern 500 was pushed back to November before it was removed from the schedule - and this was around the time there was talk about racetracks in Seattle and Denver.

Now, NASCAR's paying the price because those 150,000 seat stadiums are only going to get 50,000 fans.
Click to expand...

NASCAR has done a good job at kicking themselves in the ass over the years. They've expanded to "great" new markets and now that those markets lost that new car smell those new "fans" have moved on. Problem is they ran a lot of core fans off and pissed a lot more off during the process. There's a lot of factors outside NASCAR's control why people aren't showing up, but the factors they could control they messed up. The tracks, the cars, the way they want the drivers to act and the way they handle things has hurt the sport.
 
Thegroundpounder99 said:
NASCAR has done a good job at kicking themselves in the ass over the years. They've expanded to "great" new markets and now that those markets lost that new car smell those new "fans" have moved on. Problem is they ran a lot of core fans off and pissed a lot more off during the process. There's a lot of factors outside NASCAR's control why people aren't showing up, but the factors they could control they messed up. The tracks, the cars, the way they want the drivers to act and the way they handle things has hurt the sport.
Click to expand...

Yep. NASCAR's eventually going to learn that their core fanbase is still in the Southeast.
 
Thegroundpounder99 said:
NASCAR has done a good job at kicking themselves in the ass over the years. They've expanded to "great" new markets and now that those markets lost that new car smell those new "fans" have moved on. Problem is they ran a lot of core fans off and pissed a lot more off during the process. There's a lot of factors outside NASCAR's control why people aren't showing up, but the factors they could control they messed up. The tracks, the cars, the way they want the drivers to act and the way they handle things has hurt the sport.
Click to expand...
The same can be said for all of the major sports leagues . They have botched things by allowing or helping franchises to move around . Pissing fans off every time . Start with the Dodgers moving to LA ,then look at the Ravens in football, or the NHL trying to expand into the South. I guess that we can't expect them to stand pat and not try to expand their horizons for the growth of the sport , but it is still hard on fans. And to a large extent , it has worked for Nascar . Contrary to Andy's opinion , the fan dase is no longer 'the south' ,it has expanded right across America and into other countries . Look at this forum , we are from every state and many countries.
 
Smoke14 said:
I found this a while back. I wish it had included southwest and southeast demograhics. I found the gender and income distribution interesting.

http://www.dkmsm.com/pdf/2010 NASCAR Fan Base Demographics.pdf
Click to expand...
Great find. Excellent example showing that NASCAR has quite a diverse audience contrary to popular belief. Someone simply needs to take a walk through the parking lot or the campgrounds surrounding the tracks to see this for themselves.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Great find. Excellent example showing that NASCAR has quite a diverse audience contrary to popular belief. Someone simply needs to take a walk through the parking lot or the campgrounds surrounding the tracks to see this for themselves.
Click to expand...
I posted this yesterday in the random thread.

How much more of a diverse bunch could you get than the toadies,one Florida native, one yankee transplant to Florida, Texas, New York, Michigan, damn we are from all over.
 
Another way to look at it is to consider the states cup drivers are from. California is probably producing more drivers now than the Carolinas, times have changed.

There is probably as much motorsports interest in California, I just wish they had a good short track for a cup race. I personally think any good track would succeed in any mid to big market location.
 
Johali said:
I posted this yesterday in the random thread.

How much more of a diverse bunch could you get than the toadies,one Florida native, one yankee transplant to Florida, Texas, New York, Michigan, damn we are from all over.
Click to expand...
Great find by you too then. Fans are from all over. It was a southern sport when it wasn't on television and it was only run in the south but with all of the exposure today avid fans are from all over. As every other year I passed and was also passed by several Canadian race fans on my way home from Bristol. This isn't just a southern thing anymore.
 
Greg said:
Another way to look at it is to consider the states cup drivers are from. California is probably producing more drivers now than the Carolinas, times have changed.

There is probably as much motorsports interest in California, I just wish they had a good short track for a cup race. I personally think any good track would succeed in any mid to big market location.
Click to expand...

This x 10000!
 
Greg said:
Another way to look at it is to consider the states cup drivers are from. California is probably producing more drivers now than the Carolinas, times have changed.

There is probably as much motorsports interest in California, I just wish they had a good short track for a cup race. I personally think any good track would succeed in any mid to big market location.
Click to expand...

Here is a list of the drivers and where they are from. Not real current, but fairly close.
http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/cup/drivers
 
Greg said:
Another way to look at it is to consider the states cup drivers are from. California is probably producing more drivers now than the Carolinas, times have changed.

There is probably as much motorsports interest in California, I just wish they had a good short track for a cup race. I personally think any good track would succeed in any mid to big market location.
Click to expand...

Part of that is because NASCAR focuses more on California and the West Coast. NASCAR Winter Heat (Arizona) in the mid-90s, NASCAR Winston West (several races televised live in the 90s and 2000s while Busch East was mostly ignored), Toyota Showdown at Irwindale. All these televised events were a chance for drivers from the West Coast to show their stuff in the spotlight. Add in ARCA and CRA which are mostly Midwest deals and the East Coast is still mostly blacked out. Hell, the two biggest short track races on the East Coast (Pensacola, Martinsville) aren't even televised on tape delays.

The Denny Hamlin deal (in 2011) was the first time in 15 years up-and-coming East Coast drivers got any time in the spotlight.


I'm not taking away from the California drivers - just pointing out that there has been an effort by NASCAR to focus on the west coast more.... part of the strategy I eluded to several posts up. There's a huge racing fanbase on the West Coast but the fact is, it's never really translated in to fan attendance or television ratings.
 
And then there's a certain "image" that NASCAR teams and NASCAR itself looks for. The west coast drivers (Jimmie Johnson, Kasey Kahne, Kevin Harvick) all fit that image almost by default. Our guys out here, with their southern accents and their sometimes rough looks, sometimes even their names (Philip Morris) doesn't fit the "brand" NASCAR is trying to build.

The bottom line - NASCAR's core fanbase remains in the Southeast. Their strategy bit them in the ass. It's not that NASCAR branched out, it's how they did it. Some people on here won't remember the outrage when the Southern 500 was moved to a date that NASCAR knew was unsustainable (for the sole purpose of adding races in California and Phoenix). The Los Angeles market hasn't supported their race. That deal ended with NASCAR gaining no new fans and losing a ton of fans in their most loyal market.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Great find by you too then. Fans are from all over. It was a southern sport when it wasn't on television and it was only run in the south but with all of the exposure today avid fans are from all over. As every other year I passed and was also passed by several Canadian race fans on my way home from Bristol. This isn't just a southern thing anymore.
Click to expand...

Yeah, obviously NASCAR realizes their core fans are still in the Southeast which is why Rockingham got a Truck date and why NASCAR is looking at adding Truck races to short tracks in South Carolina and Virginia. I'm sure NASCAR would rather see their product being watched by 10,000 occupied seats and millions of viewers who enjoy the product that's being displayed than it being watched by 100,000 empty seats in a 120,000 seat stadium and declining television audiences that say the product is boring.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
And then there's a certain "image" that NASCAR teams and NASCAR itself looks for. The west coast drivers (Jimmie Johnson, Kasey Kahne, Kevin Harvick) all fit that image almost by default. Our guys out here, with their southern accents and their sometimes rough looks, sometimes even their names (Philip Morris) doesn't fit the "brand" NASCAR is trying to build.

The bottom line - NASCAR's core fanbase remains in the Southeast. Their strategy bit them in the ass. It's not that NASCAR branched out, it's how they did it. Some people on here won't remember the outrage when the Southern 500 was moved to a date that NASCAR knew was unsustainable (for the sole purpose of adding races in California and Phoenix). The Los Angeles market hasn't supported their race. That deal ended with NASCAR gaining no new fans and losing a ton of fans in their most loyal market.
Click to expand...


You might want to look at that chart again The two largest demographic areas are the south and the midwest. There isn't a map to see the geographical areas , but according to the chart..there it is in black and white for whatever that is worth.
 
StandOnIt said:
You might want to look at that chart again The two largest demographic areas are the south and the midwest. There isn't a map to see the geographical areas , but according to the chart..there it is in black and white for whatever that is worth.
Click to expand...

I did. 41% of NASCAR fans are from the South? It's not even close. Thanks for playing though.
 
The bottom line is: Bristol, a track located in the middle of nowhere in Tennessee, on a bad day, gets more fans than tracks located near Los Angeles (Fontana), New York City and Philadelphia (Pocono) and Greater Boston (Loudon) get on a good day.
 
You said the southeast...the chart says the south. of course with out a map, to show the areas the chart represents, the south..whatever that is could be anything from the east coast to Louisiana
 
If you look at that chart again..the percentages listed first show the percentage of the U.S. population that live in each area. The next shows the percentage of Nascar fans that live in that area. For example. the west has 4% less nascar fans per capita than the population
 
So looking at the chart, the south has the larger percentage and the midwest , with the northeast and the west being lower per capita. I still don't see how that chart can relate to attendance.
 
StandOnIt said:
You said the southeast...the chart says the south. of course with out a map, to show the areas the chart represents, the south..whatever that is could be anything from the east coast to Louisiana
Click to expand...

Where I live, NASCAR is the lead story on the evening sports report every single night -- even during the offseason. NASCAR even trumps College Basketball and Virginia Tech football on the evening sports report. It's pretty much the culture here. Can anyone say the same thing about Kansas City, Los Angeles, Boston, Dallas, Jacksonville/Orlando, Phoenix, Las Vegas (which is where they should move the finale BTW), Chicago, Detroit and San Francisco?

Next question: Do you think it's wise for NASCAR to abandon a region that has lived for NASCAR racing since the sport was created in favor of regions that have proven, in the past, that they won't support the sport long-term?
 
This came from Jayski's site

NASCAR will no longer provide attendance estimate: NASCAR will end its policy of providing estimated attendance figures in its race reports this season. Spokesman Kerry Tharp said tracks still will have the option of providing crowd estimates, but it will be their prerogative. "NASCAR's race reports generally becomes a box score for the media, and box scores from sporting events do not generally provide estimates," Tharp said. Of the 23 tracks that play host to races in NASCAR's premier series, 21 are owned by publicly traded companies such as International Speedway Corp. and Speedway Motorsports Inc. Officials with those tracks have said they don't provide attendance figures because they don't want to provide earnings guidance.(USA Today)(2-17-2013)
 
Next question: Do you think it's wise for NASCAR to abandon a region that has lived for NASCAR racing since the sport was created in favor of regions that have proven, in the past, that they won't support the sport long-term?

I think that is way more drama than what has happened..over years..long years. Nascar is still headquartered in the mid east U.S. and they employ many many people directly and indirectly. They have built and partnered with track owners all over the country and in Canada and Mexico in recent years. larger tracks, different markets. The chart you are referring to shows that per capita, Nascar fans are spread out all over the country. That has done the opposite of what you are concerned about..abandonment issues. Cheer up Andy boy, Nascar is stronger because they have diversified and brought the sport closer to millions over the years.
 
StandOnIt said:
Next question: Do you think it's wise for NASCAR to abandon a region that has lived for NASCAR racing since the sport was created in favor of regions that have proven, in the past, that they won't support the sport long-term?
Click to expand...
While I am 100% in favor of Nascar expanding into new regions , I hate to see them leave iconic tracks (not regions) behind . The loss of races at Darlington , Rockingham, North Wilkesboro, etc . is really sad and I hope that Nascar tries to protect racing at the original tracks wherever possible.
 
StandOnIt said:
Next question: Do you think it's wise for NASCAR to abandon a region that has lived for NASCAR racing since the sport was created in favor of regions that have proven, in the past, that they won't support the sport long-term?

I think that is way more drama than what has happened..over years..long years. Nascar is still headquartered in the mid east U.S. and they employ many many people directly and indirectly. They have built and partnered with track owners all over the country and in Canada and Mexico in recent years. larger tracks, different markets. The chart you are referring to shows that per capita, Nascar fans are spread out all over the country. That has done the opposite of what you are concerned about..abandonment issues. Cheer up Andy boy, Nascar is stronger because they have diversified and brought the sport closer to millions over the years.
Click to expand...
ted@economy said:
While I am 100% in favor of Nascar expanding into new regions , I hate to see them leave iconic tracks (not regions) behind . The loss of races at Darlington , Rockingham, North Wilkesboro, etc . is really sad and I hope that Nascar tries to protect racing at the original tracks wherever possible.
Click to expand...

But this is my point about NASCAR's strategy with Bristol and Martinsville. They moved the Spring races up at both tracks to dates that are known for crappy weather. NASCAR knows fans aren't going to show up to races during a time of the year where it rains and snows a lot. The weather sucked on Friday and it sucked on Sunday. Martinsville is at the beginning of April now.... another weekend not known for stellar weather. That race has been postponed numerous times. The fall race has been pushed back to late October when it's 25° in the morning and 45° in the afternoon on a good day.

As for the races in California and Miami - the only way you're going to get fans to show up to those races is if you host NBA games on pit road. Texas selling out consistently is the only reason NASCAR hasn't started to abandon these stadiums that aren't racetracks.
 
California is a great example of what needs to be done. It couldn't support two races , but one is fine. You have no case for the Southeast supporting racing when nobody went to Rockingham.
 
ted@economy said:
California is a great example of what needs to be done. It couldn't support two races , but one is fine. You have no case for the Southeast supporting racing when nobody went to Rockingham.
Click to expand...

Yeah because people are going to rush to a racetrack in the middle of February when it's 29° outside. :rolleyes:

The Truck Series crowd at Rockingham was possibly the best crowd the Truck Series had for a race all season.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
But this is my point about NASCAR's strategy with Bristol and Martinsville. They moved the Spring races up at both tracks to dates that are known for crappy weather. NASCAR knows fans aren't going to show up to races during a time of the year where it rains and snows a lot. The weather sucked on Friday and it sucked on Sunday. Martinsville is at the beginning of April now.... another weekend not known for stellar weather. That race has been postponed numerous times. The fall race has been pushed back to late October when it's 25° in the morning and 45° in the afternoon on a good day.
Click to expand...
Bristol has been run mid to late March for many, many years. Nothing has changed recently and this race used to sell out all the time until 2010. Fan attendance @ Bristol has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the time of the year. Sure, it would be nice to have it moved later but it is where it is. The weather was great the two years prior to this and it really wasn't all that bad this year. Every lap of each race was run without delay. Were you even there?
 
ted@economy said:
California is a great example of what needs to be done. It couldn't support two races , but one is fine. You have no case for the Southeast supporting racing when nobody went to Rockingham.
Click to expand...

California is an example of NASCAR doing everything they can to make a race work. If NASCAR wanted Rockingham to work, they would've tried a better date first, like they did with California countless times.

dpkimmel2001 said:
Bristol has been run mid to late March for many, many years. Nothing has changed recently and this race used to sell out all the time until 2010. Fan attendance @ Bristol has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the time of the year. Sure, it would be nice to have it moved later but it is where it is. The weather was great the two years prior to this and it really wasn't all that bad this year. Every lap of each race was run without delay. Were you even there?
Click to expand...

I was there on Friday - headed out to Kingsport Speedway Friday night where I froze my ass off at a barnburner. And like I said, on a bad day, Bristol still has better attendance than almost every other track. I'd venture to say the forecasters calling for snow all week (that never happened fortunately) made some people consider not going.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I was there on Friday - headed out to Kingsport Speedway Friday night where I froze my ass off at a barnburner. And like I said, on a bad day, Bristol still has better attendance than almost every other track. I'd venture to say the forecasters calling for snow all week (that never happened fortunately) made some people consider not going.
Click to expand...
So you're blaming the empty seats on the weather forecast? How do you explain all of the other March sellouts at that track. They filled the place before while having snowball fights in the stands. Again, the lack of fans had absolutely nothing to do with the weather.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
So you're blaming the empty seats on the weather forecast? How do you explain all of the other March sellouts at that track. They filled the place before while having snowball fights in the stands. Again, the lack of fans had absolutely nothing to do with the weather.
Click to expand...

There's a number of reasons. Weather, hotel prices, overall decline forecast.

I don't even know why I bit the bait on this discussion. Even on a bad day, Bristol gets better attendance than all the midwest and left coast tracks.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
There's a number of reasons. Weather, hotel prices, overall decline forecast.

I don't even know why I bit the bait on this discussion. Even on a bad day, Bristol gets better attendance than all the midwest and left coast tracks.
Click to expand...
Yeah "suck it up and deal with it":lol2::laugh::lol2:
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
The bottom line is: Bristol, a track located in the middle of nowhere in Tennessee, on a bad day, gets more fans than tracks located near Los Angeles (Fontana), New York City and Philadelphia (Pocono) and Greater Boston (Loudon) get on a good day.
Click to expand...
It doesn't help that the racing at Fontana and Pocono isn't as entertaining. Swap that half-miler with the big triangle and see how many people still travel to northeast Tennessee.
 
Speed Racer said:
Well after today's race I don't think there will be a problem going forward but the spring race has always lagged behind the night race. I just ordered my night race tickets tonight based solely of the race I saw today.

bristol.png


That's where I'll be sitting. Right next to the suite support pole!
Click to expand...

I say we all get tickets and go drink beer with Speed Racer

it couldn't hurt . . .
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Yeah because people are going to rush to a racetrack in the middle of February when it's 29° outside. :rolleyes:

The Truck Series crowd at Rockingham was possibly the best crowd the Truck Series had for a race all season.
Click to expand...
Do you not remember Kurt Busch's snow angels at Bristol?

AndyMarquisLive said:
As for the races in California and Miami - the only way you're going to get fans to show up to those races is if you host NBA games on pit road. Texas selling out consistently is the only reason NASCAR hasn't started to abandon these stadiums that aren't racetracks.
Click to expand...

TMS doesn't even get close to selling out, and it hasn't since they went to 2 dates. Another track that has 2 dates and probably shouldn't. When it does get close, it's because Eddie decides to trade race tickets for Andrew Jacksons and make people think somebody is going to throw a helmet.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom