FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
DISCUSS all you want. Wasted time, if you ask me. It isn't going to change a thing.
Why do you gotta bring God into it?
Debating what people should or shouldn't debate is pointless.
Broken Cable
- Thread starter Zerkfitting
- Start date
Debating what people should or shouldn't debate is pointless.
hawg dawg
Team Owner
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like lights goin out at superbowl in new orleans this yr. ?
biggest goof---they kept callin it a cable ----it was a little nylon rope !
ted@economy
in the interest of equal time
VaDirt
Dirt Track Fanatic
Well, debating about people debating over what should or shouldn't debated about is pointless.Debating what people should or shouldn't debate is pointless.
But then again, I guess that is debatable.
StandOnIt
Farm Truck
so that is why all the "I ate the Bones" commercials.That's why they are only going to let you take boneless chicken in from now on.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Lemme know when your debating affects what's already over.
Charlie Spencer
Road courses and short tracks.
It's a rare situation, best handled as it happens. I thought Gordon was screwed at M'ville a few years ago. I'd like to think NASCAR learned its lesson from that incident.
Hot dog wrappers and weather are hardly in the same league with occasional, unpredictable failures in the facility infrastructure.
I remember several years ago when Dale Jarrett was leading at Richmond. There was a late-race caution with six or seven laps left. The amount of debris couldn't be cleaned up in that short a period of time. The race would have ended with the last several laps run under caution, as was the practice at that time (similar to yesterday's Indy finish), and DJ would get the win. Instead, the red flag was thrown while the clean-up went on. The race then went green again, and Terry Labonte passed DJ for the checkers.
Nowadays we take late reds as a given so that the race could finish under green. Back then it was a hugely controversial decision. NASCAR makes changes. Sometimes they're announced years in advance, like new car designs. Other times they're made with only a week's notice, like eliminating racing back to the line after a yellow is thrown and the creation of the 'Lucky Dog' rule. And sometimes they're made on the fly.
Hot dog wrappers and weather are hardly in the same league with occasional, unpredictable failures in the facility infrastructure.
I remember several years ago when Dale Jarrett was leading at Richmond. There was a late-race caution with six or seven laps left. The amount of debris couldn't be cleaned up in that short a period of time. The race would have ended with the last several laps run under caution, as was the practice at that time (similar to yesterday's Indy finish), and DJ would get the win. Instead, the red flag was thrown while the clean-up went on. The race then went green again, and Terry Labonte passed DJ for the checkers.
Nowadays we take late reds as a given so that the race could finish under green. Back then it was a hugely controversial decision. NASCAR makes changes. Sometimes they're announced years in advance, like new car designs. Other times they're made with only a week's notice, like eliminating racing back to the line after a yellow is thrown and the creation of the 'Lucky Dog' rule. And sometimes they're made on the fly.
Charlie Spencer
Road courses and short tracks.
Dude, it's sports; it already doesn't affect anything. It's just entertainment and for many people, debating is part of that entertainment value.Lemme know when your debating affects what's already over.
And c'mon, it's an Internet forum! If the participants aren't to debate, what reason is there for it to exist?
Charlie Spencer
Road courses and short tracks.
Based on what some people are saying, I guess they should have kept playing in the dark. The Vikings probably should have played in the Metrodome after the roof blew off, too. Geez, maybe NASCAR should have left the cable out on the track instead of picking it up.
StandOnIt
Farm Truck
remember the game where the snow blower guy during a time out ran his blower over and cleared out a space so the place kicker would have to clear place to kick the winning field goal. He was supposed to just clear the yard lines. That was hilarious.
Bucky Badger
Go Kyle Go
[quote="hawg dawg,
biggest goof---they kept callin it a cable ----it was a little nylon rope ![/quote]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable
biggest goof---they kept callin it a cable ----it was a little nylon rope ![/quote]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable
StandOnIt
Farm Truck
oh crap potato or pototo whatever it was, it put a hurting on a few cars
whatever it was, it put a hurting on a few cars
Charlie Spencer
Road courses and short tracks.
Miami Dolphins at the Patriots; I recall it was a playoff game. The snow blower operator was a prison trustee on loan to the team. Miami coach Don Shula had a conniption.
Very interesting video from a fan in the stands.
oh crap potato or pototo
Dan Quayle????
ToyYoda
Team Owner
I remember they had to throw a caution at Pocono one year because a chicken wandered on to the track. I don't recall it wreaking any havoc though.
racer8
Team Owner
Given the situation I think Nascar did the best they could to attempt to keep things fair. I feel they should have done the same for Gordon at Martinsville a few years back.
Debris on the track, beer cans and trash has always been a part of it along with bad tires, motors etc. and falls under the catagory of luck.
What were they supposed to do, postpone the race another day while they debate it?
Debris on the track, beer cans and trash has always been a part of it along with bad tires, motors etc. and falls under the catagory of luck.
What were they supposed to do, postpone the race another day while they debate it?
Historian TRL, Historian TRL, please refresh my mind of the year. All Start Race I believe?
StandOnIt
Farm Truck
yes sir already been done..back up cars
KevinWI
Oldest Operating Motor Speedway In The World
No, silly. We have no problem with them stopping the race. It was the silly 15 minute repair period that got us upset.
KevinWI
Oldest Operating Motor Speedway In The World
Yes, the exhibition All Star Race, not a points-paying championship race. Who cares what they do in an exhibition race.
Jeffrey00
Stamos Cozy
That is why I mentioned this was a points race. I give a little more leeway to the allstar race and that time they allowed Burton and Gordon and others to repair their cars and start over. Couple reasons why. First it was an allstar race, no points, who cares. Second, they had just thrown the green flag when it happened. So they could just scratch the start and start over. Third Nascar should have never thrown the green flag during that Allstar race as there was reports of heavy water on the track.
MRM
Team Owner
NASCAR handled the situation perfectly.
mike honcho
Knuckleheads
StandOnIt
Farm Truck
I think the rain red flag was at either Daytona or Talledaga. It was a large track if I remember correctly and the Nascar officials didn't see that it had started raining in just one of the turns..it was dry everywhere else. They either had a start or a restart and when the cars ran into that corner they had a big one and red flagged the race. The crews were given the option to fix the damage or go to a backup. Like the cable, Nascar made a mistake that affected the race and they did what they thought was the best solution.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
I don't remember them being able to fix the cars or go to a backup other than the 2001 All-Star race. Gordon, Harvick, Jeff Burton & Michael Waltrip all wrecked on the opening lap in turn one due to a wet track. They all went to backup cars and the race was restarted. Jeff Gordon won in his.
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Bumped from another thread.
Letting kybu repair his car under the red flag is bullsh!t, but all is well, Karma bit him in the ass. In the past TV cameras falling off of the fences and overhead, camera guards falling off the fences and overhead plus other items and of course Jeff Gordons infamous concrete slab all of them tearing up cars and the teams were told, lose your spot and no working on cars under the red flag. In My Opinion it's all bullsh!t. It should be the same for everybody every time but its not.
Letting kybu repair his car under the red flag is bullsh!t, but all is well, Karma bit him in the ass. In the past TV cameras falling off of the fences and overhead, camera guards falling off the fences and overhead plus other items and of course Jeff Gordons infamous concrete slab all of them tearing up cars and the teams were told, lose your spot and no working on cars under the red flag. In My Opinion it's all bullsh!t. It should be the same for everybody every time but its not.
Bucky Badger
Go Kyle Go
totally agree
LOL!
Right, because of course Kyle was the only one who received damage when the cable fell, and NASCAR decided to change the written rule that had already been established precisely for this exact type of incident just so they could help him out. 'Cause, y'know, Kyle's the most popular driver and stuff, and everyone loves watching him win. I stand by my theory from my earlier post in this thread. As is usually the case, for some people in this debate, this whole thing is really just all about Kyle Busch.
Mind you, I agree that other drivers have been screwed in arguably/slightly similar situations that occured in previous years. However (and I'm pretty sure someone else raised this point earlier), does that mean that now every driver that experiences a similar issue in the future should be screwed too, for consistency's sake? What's more important, consistency or getting it right?
It's funny, because I probably sound like the world's biggest NASCAR and Kyle jock rider right now, and that's definitely not how I roll. I guess I'm just having trouble understanding how some of you are so upset about this. From some of the reactions here, you'd think NASCAR was trying to hand Kyle the race on a silver platter or something, the very idea of which is just beyond hilarious because we all know who the beneficiary would be if the fix was truly in, and it certainly wouldn't be Kyle Busch and Toyota.
KevinWI
Oldest Operating Motor Speedway In The World
If NASCAR says "no" everytime, then they don't have to worry about saying "yes".
Now that they've opened the door, they're going to have to worry about this again in the future. Nobody could complain when NASCAR wouldn't give Robby Gordon or Dale Jr.'s free passes after they were damaged by in-car camera, or when track wear damaged Jeff Gordon's car, because NASCAR has always taken the hard line on this kind of stuff. Now, they've opened Pandora's Box by allowing a free repair period this one time.
Um...no...
From Jayski: "... The team for #18-Busch, replaced a lot of the right fender. #55-Martin ran over the cable/rope and had some front splitter damage, then the rope went over the #9 Ford and wrapped around the left rear wheel area and broke a brake line. #42-Montoya had some slight damage and the team made repairs. #11-Hamlin had some damage to a roof flap..."
Maybe next time do a little research
Nitro Dude
Hauler Driver and Cylinder Head Maintenance
I'm glad to see that most of the drivers that I seen interviewed felt Nascar did the right thing. Infact they seemed more concerened that the cars that were not damaged got to be worked on. My hats off to these drivers for showing good sportsmanship.
DUN24
Skeptical of the Spectacle
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Um...no...
From Jayski: "... The team for #18-Busch, replaced a lot of the right fender. #55-Martin ran over the cable/rope and had some front splitter damage, then the rope went over the #9 Ford and wrapped around the left rear wheel area and broke a brake line. #42-Montoya had some slight damage and the team made repairs. #11-Hamlin had some damage to a roof flap..."
Maybe next time do a little research
I think he was being sarcastic.. As far as the red flag repairs, I'm okay with the call. I think what I'm okay about is the same thing that led to NASCAR's decision, there was more than one car affected and the failure was so bizarre/catastrophic it just seemed fair.
With that said, I am dreading the next time something 'weird' happens because, yes, red flag repairs were allowed in a points-paying race. Pandora's box: opened. Still feel like it was a fair call.
On this board, it's difficult to tell when someone's being sarcastic
NASCAR did open a can of worms with this one. This forum will really liven up the next time NASCAR does or doesn't react similarly.
Nitro Dude
Hauler Driver and Cylinder Head Maintenance
Bobby, I think you might have took Mr Gregs post wrong, and just took a shot at a guy that's on your side.Um...no...
From Jayski: "... The team for #18-Busch, replaced a lot of the right fender. #55-Martin ran over the cable/rope and had some front splitter damage, then the rope went over the #9 Ford and wrapped around the left rear wheel area and broke a brake line. #42-Montoya had some slight damage and the team made repairs. #11-Hamlin had some damage to a roof flap..."
Maybe next time do a little research
Ha ha. Yes, I was being very sarcastic there.
IMHO, a mandatory in-car camera damaging one person's car is still not on the same level as a non-mandatory camera cable falling onto the track and affecting several cars. One could consider the former an incident in the same vein as a mechanical failure. (I'm not necessarily saying I do, mind you - I'm merely playing devil's advocate.) That's a moot point anyway, because even that is more serious than something like a hot dog wrapper on the grill, which clearly isn't a serious enough issue to merit a debate. C'mon, does anyone really think someone is gonna pick up some trash on the grill, ask NASCAR to stop the race for them so they can get it off and then reclaim their position, and actually have it happen? Not a chance.
Maybe that's not such a bad thing, though, especially given that most people contend that those drivers were screwed in those incidents. Perhaps that's where we disagree.
IMHO, a mandatory in-car camera damaging one person's car is still not on the same level as a non-mandatory camera cable falling onto the track and affecting several cars. One could consider the former an incident in the same vein as a mechanical failure. (I'm not necessarily saying I do, mind you - I'm merely playing devil's advocate.) That's a moot point anyway, because even that is more serious than something like a hot dog wrapper on the grill, which clearly isn't a serious enough issue to merit a debate. C'mon, does anyone really think someone is gonna pick up some trash on the grill, ask NASCAR to stop the race for them so they can get it off and then reclaim their position, and actually have it happen? Not a chance.
Nitro Dude
Hauler Driver and Cylinder Head Maintenance
I typ way to slow, Dun24 and Bobby treed me.
LOL. Who are you telling? I was getting my response to Kevin all ready to go, and before I could, the issue had already been raised and resolved.I typ way to slow, Dun24 and Bobby treed me.