BUILDER RELIABILITY

Revman

Revman

Toyota Gazoo Racing North America
Joined
Jan 12, 2014
Messages
15,338
Points
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Well, here we go....12 races in, and here are the numbers in order from greatest to least in terms of failures:

HENDRICK-- 4
RCR-- 2
RYR-- 2
TRD-- 1
TRIAD-- 1
RACE ENGINES PLUS (TOYOTA)-- 1
PRO MOTOR (CHEVY)-- 1
ERNIE ELLIOT (CHEVY)-- 1
 
Chevrolets in victory lane: 6
Fords in victory lane: 4
Toyotas in victory lane: 2

Excluding non points paying events. Cars used in those events are expendable.

Also, are you including SHR with HMS? If you are, I disagree. HMS hands their engines to SHR but SHR does their own thing with them. Obvious by last night with 2 broke SHR motors & not a peep from the HMS motors.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Chevrolets in victory lane: 6
Fords in victory lane: 4
Toyotas in victory lane: 2

Excluding non points paying events. Cars used in those events are expendable.

Also, are you including SHR with HMS? If you are, I disagree. HMS hands their engines to SHR but SHR does their own thing with them. Obvious by last night with 2 broke SHR motors & not a peep from the HMS motors.
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:D
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Also, are you including SHR with HMS? If you are, I disagree. HMS hands their engines to SHR but SHR does their own thing with them. Obvious by last night with 2 broke SHR motors & not a peep from the HMS motors.
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What exactly is it that you think they are doing to them? The evidence you cited is anecdotal at best.
 
Revman said:
Well, here we go....12 races in, and here are the numbers in order from greatest to least in terms of failures:

HENDRICK-- 4
RCR-- 2
RYR-- 2
TRD-- 1
TRIAD-- 1
RACE ENGINES PLUS (TOYOTA)-- 1
PRO MOTOR (CHEVY)-- 1
ERNIE ELLIOT (CHEVY)-- 1
Click to expand...
None for Team Penske :D
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Idk Im no mechanic but its plain as day on the track, no?
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There are not your 1970's engines where you just change the air fuel ratio with a screwdriver. There is a tremendous amount of engineering that goes into a NASCAR engine. Also, you might occasionally notice that a Hendrik engineers under the hood at the track.

There are other factors that go into engine reliability too. Running a Gear ratios to get higher RPM can make you go faster and put more stress on the engine (for example)
 
It's a little early to be trotting out these numbers, lets see where we end up at the end of the year.

There's still 2 Pocono's, Michigan, 2 RP tracks left. I'm sure there will be a bunch more engines to go before the year is out.
 
if they're leasing motors, i figure rick doesn't allow much tinkering with his motor. i heard from a finch team member a couple years ago, that with their lease it included a hendrick engineer. he also stated by doing this, it allowed for them to have a hendrick guy at a lot more tracks, like having extra eyes at where those using his stuff are testing that he didn't have his four cars at. but if they're buying them they can do what they want with them.
 
To Hendrick's credit, they do have more teams running their engines than any other engine builder, so I guess it stands to reason they would have the most failures.

As for Toyota, I'm glad the reliability has improved over last year (no more lame "Toysploda" jokes), but it looks like they've traded some speed for durability.
 
ToyYoda said:
To Hendrick's credit, they do have more teams running their engines than any other engine builder, so I guess it stands to reason they would have the most failures.

As for Toyota, I'm glad the reliability has improved over last year (no more lame "Toysploda" jokes), but it looks like they've traded some speed for durability.
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More importantly ... if Hendrick's engines had a real reliability issue, would they really have so many teams buying from them?
 
Professur said:
More importantly ... if Hendrick's engines had a real reliability issue, would they really have so many teams buying from them?
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If I'm not mistaken, most of those failures have been on SHR teams. Could be something they're doing.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Chevrolets in victory lane: 6
Fords in victory lane: 4
Toyotas in victory lane: 2

Excluding non points paying events. Cars used in those events are expendable.

Also, are you including SHR with HMS? If you are, I disagree. HMS hands their engines to SHR but SHR does their own thing with them. Obvious by last night with 2 broke SHR motors & not a peep from the HMS motors.
Click to expand...

Yeah, this is a thread about reliability. You know, Forum Protocol dictates staying on topic and everything. Second, didn't include non-points paying events. Those don't mean much to me in this context. Finally, SHR isn't a builder, but I would be curious to know how much leash Hendrick gives them. With EFI's mapping, I know that TRD gives their teams typically 4 different tunes ranging from full power/maximum fuel use to reduced power/minimum fuel use. Having said all of that, a tuner has input on a team's direction. Certainly, nobody in the TRD stable cracks the engine open, and I doubt that it's much different with the SHR/Hendrick relationship--I know you will correct me if I am wrong. I mean, why would Mr. H put his name on the valve cover if he didn't have control on what was going on under it? FWIW--Junior's motor went to ****. He nursed it home, but really I didn't intend to start this thread as a Hendrick bashing. I really don't feel that way about any manufacturer/builder. This is the part of the sport I really enjoy--the balance between performance and reliability.
 
Spike said:
I wonder if Joe Gibbs is regretting shutting down their engine operation.
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No. Do you remember why he chose to shut it down? They were having reliability issues and TRD was bailing them out. The relationship grew out of necessity, and then logical decision was made to make it an official partnership. Cronquist is still on the JGR payroll building NNS and Truck motors while giving input to the final tune of the TRD motors. This isn't about the motors. They are fine. Toyota performance is about set ups and driver CC communications.
 
ToyYoda said:
To Hendrick's credit, they do have more teams running their engines than any other engine builder, so I guess it stands to reason they would have the most failures.

As for Toyota, I'm glad the reliability has improved over last year (no more lame "Toysploda" jokes), but it looks like they've traded some speed for durability.
Click to expand...

I might argue to the speed for durability issue. I think Toyota's performance issues are about set ups and team communications, honestly. Power is fine.
 
sloggie said:
There are not your 1970's engines where you just change the air fuel ratio with a screwdriver. There is a tremendous amount of engineering that goes into a NASCAR engine. Also, you might occasionally notice that a Hendrik engineers under the hood at the track.

There are other factors that go into engine reliability too. Running a Gear ratios to get higher RPM can make you go faster and put more stress on the engine (for example)
Click to expand...

Aren't gear ratio choices mandated by NASCAR? Teams don't get a lot of room there do they?
 
pudge said:
if they're leasing motors, i figure rick doesn't allow much tinkering with his motor. i heard from a finch team member a couple years ago, that with their lease it included a hendrick engineer. he also stated by doing this, it allowed for them to have a hendrick guy at a lot more tracks, like having extra eyes at where those using his stuff are testing that he didn't have his four cars at. but if they're buying them they can do what they want with them.
Click to expand...

Does anybody purchase engines from a builder? Pretty much all lease isn't it?
 
Revman said:
Does anybody purchase engines from a builder? Pretty much all lease isn't it?
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i heard of teams purchasing an engine or two, plus also leasing others as well.
 
i got a tour of james finch's shop and i asked nick harrison about some motors there, and he pointed to 2 motors and said they bought those from hendrick's and pointed at another one and said that one is a lease. he also said with the leasing hendrick would sometimes offer a discount on price if they would take a motor that had something new in it that hadn't been proven yet. it was there choice to try the unproven motor or go with proven one.
 
pudge said:
i got a tour of james finch's shop and i asked nick harrison about some motors there, and he pointed to 2 motors and said they bought those from hendrick's and pointed at another one and said that one is a lease. he also said with the leasing hendrick would sometimes offer a discount on price if they would take a motor that had something new in it that hadn't been proven yet. it was there choice to try the unproven motor or go with proven one.
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Very cool man. Great info. I am betting that the purchased piece is little more than block and heads, and that they would have little knowledge of what would be experimental. Would be one hell of a gamble, but the pay off could be huge. Good stuff man.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Chevrolets in victory lane: 6
Fords in victory lane: 4
Toyotas in victory lane: 2

Excluding non points paying events. Cars used in those events are expendable.

Also, are you including SHR with HMS? If you are, I disagree. HMS hands their engines to SHR but SHR does their own thing with them. Obvious by last night with 2 broke SHR motors & not a peep from the HMS motors.
Click to expand...

Chocolate Myers said on NASCAR Radio this morning that SHR gets their engines intact with a tuner from Hendrick. Don't shoot the messenger.
 
Revman said:
Chocolate Myers said on NASCAR Radio this morning that SHR gets their engines intact with a tuner from Hendrick. Don't shoot the messenger.
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Doesnt mean he tunes the engines the same way as the main HMS cars. Obviously.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Doesnt mean he tunes the engines the same way as the main HMS cars. Obviously.
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Are you suggesting that HMS gives SHR a different product? That would be inconsistent with what the party line has been at HMS for years.....and you are operating on the assumption that the tuner is at fault for the failure. Hmmm.
 
I was in error in the Builder Stats.....RCR does not build engines....ECR builds engines. Good catch--or lack thereof--RCR fans! LOL.
 
Heard that all the HMS engines at Dover will get fresh valve springs before the race, not sure if any of the others still practice this routine or not.
 
Revman said:
Chocolate Myers said on NASCAR Radio this morning that SHR gets their engines intact with a tuner from Hendrick. Don't shoot the messenger.
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You mean Chocolate was actually talking about something other than Dale Earnhardt or RCR on that show? Color me shocked.
 
ToyYoda said:
You mean Chocolate was actually talking about something other than Dale Earnhardt or RCR on that show? Color me shocked.
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That and a shocker when he doesn't talk **** about Kyle. Love it now that he dances around Harvick as well. Awkward.
 
Kyle18fan said:
Heard that all the HMS engines at Dover will get fresh valve springs before the race, not sure if any of the others still practice this routine or not.
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Same deal as when TRD did that last year, and everybody **** their drawers, but this is Hendrick, so it's just good practice. BS.
 
Revman said:
Same deal as when TRD did that last year, and everybody **** their drawers, but this is Hendrick, so it's just good practice. BS.
Click to expand...

They might all still be doing it, havent heard much about the others. Good to see TRD isnt at the top of the blown engine leader board though
 
Kyle18fan said:
They might all still be doing it, havent heard much about the others. Good to see TRD isnt at the top of the blown engine leader board though
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Yeah, but it is interesting that it is news for Hendrick. TRD is reliable, and we are starting to see some speed. Rowdy was fast in Cup today obviously. Getting there...
 
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