Confederate flag leads NASCAR to reject Bubba Watson's 'Hazzard' car

SpeedPagan said:
Eh I'm not too familiar with NASCAR infield policy, so I can't really comment on that. Let's be honest, NASCAR is first and foremost a business. It may have started out with a few country boys racing around a dirt oval, but it's now a business. The fact that it is a business means they are in it to make money, and the Confederate flag can cost them money.

Don't like it? Then don't watch any NASCAR sanctioned events or buy their merchandise.
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Exactly. And the deep south may not see the Confederate Flag as a sign of racism, most Americans do. Of course, those who fly the Confederate Flag also think that racism is dead.
 
Isn't there a big rig that has a giant flag that goes around the track at DEGA?

Why do I remember him with the stars and bars?
 
ted@economy said:
Oh sure , you leave a thousand bucks worth of tea floating in Bastan Haba and now you've (what) 'moved on ' to coffee ? No Way.
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It was the smart thing to do. Those South Americans didn't have ships...or even guns. Who's afraid of blow darts? ;)
 
I am not offended by the flag. I think they should run it. Idiots in this country have taken PC way too far. PC is a form of censorship for the panty-waded community (that I am not numbered amongst). If they don't like it, it's their option to tune in to something less offensive, like Barney & Friends.
 
For most its just just a damn flag. Most people that fly it do not fly it as a race deal. The union.states had slaves too. Plus the war was not about slaves. Need a history lession I think.
 
WIKI:

In the presidential election of 1860, the Republican Party, led by Abraham Lincoln, had campaigned against expanding slavery beyond the states in which it already existed. The Republicans strongly advocated nationalism, and in their 1860 platform they denounced threats of disunion as avowals of treason. After a Republican victory, but before the new administration took office on March 4, 1861, seven cotton states declared their secession and joined to form the Confederate States of America. Both the outgoing administration of President James Buchanan and the incoming administration rejected the legality of secession, considering it rebellion. The other eight slave states rejected calls for secession at this point. No country in the world recognized the Confederacy.
 
MOEJOE said:
Of course the war was about slaves. Wasn't it?
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Lap3 hasn't read the Frederick Douglas letters. Of course it was about slavery, dressed up as a battle over federalist power to set laws. The South ignored many of those laws, but we only went to war when they ignored the abolition of slavery.
 
FenderBumper said:
Lap3 hasn't read the Frederick Douglas letters. Of course it was about slavery, dressed up as a battle over federalist power to set laws. The South ignored many of those laws, but we only went to war when they ignored the abolition of slavery.
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Lincoln didn't say before he was elected that abolishing slavery was the way to go. He just said no more new states can have slaves. The ones that did have them he was ok with really.
 
The confederacy said it would leave the Union if Lincoln was elected.

He was elected.

They left.

That's what happened.

The south knew they had to leave. If they didn't, slaves would try to escape the south like never before. Slave hunters would not be treated as such if they came to the north looking for escapees.

WIKI:


The causes of the Civil War were complex, and have been controversial since the war began. The issue has been further complicated byhistorical revisionists, who have tried to improve the image of the South by lessening the role of slavery.[6] Slavery was the central source of escalating political tension in the 1850s. The Republican Party was determined to prevent any spread of slavery, and many Southern leaders had threatened secession if the Republican candidate, Lincoln, won the 1860 election. Following Lincoln's victory, many Southern whites felt that disunion had become their only option.
While not all Southerners saw themselves as fighting to preserve slavery, most of the officers and over a third of the rank and file in Lee's army had close family ties to slavery. To Northerners, in contrast, the motivation was primarily to preserve the Union, not to abolish slavery.[7]Abraham Lincoln consistently made preserving the Union the central goal of the war, though he increasingly saw slavery as a crucial issue and made ending it an additional goal.[8] Lincoln's decision to issue the Emancipation Proclamation angered both Peace Democrats("Copperheads") and War Democrats, but energized most Republicans.[9] By warning that free blacks would flood the North, Democrats made gains in the 1862 elections, but they did not gain control of Congress. The Republicans' counterargument that slavery was the mainstay of the enemy steadily gained support, with the Democrats crushed at the 1863 elections in Ohio when they tried to resurrect anti-black sentiment.[10
 
MOEJOE said:
Lincoln didn't say before he was elected that abolishing slavery was the way to go. He just said no more new states can have slaves. The ones that did have them he was ok with really.
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I understand that Lincoln didn't campaign on imposing abolition on the south, but he was clearly against slavery. When he was elected, the South saw the writing on the wall and many southern states decided to secede from the union. Frederick Douglass had tried, unsucessfully, to convince Lincoln to come right out against slavery in America, but Lincoln was still trying to avoid war. Even after the war started, Lincoln tried to heal the rift by compromising with the south. That all ende d with the emancipation proclaimation.

It's been awhile, so I had to check my memory from way back in grade school.
 
Matthew2470 said:
The confederate flag and a history of racism and slavery is NOTHING to be proud of.
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That's an incredibly narrow minded way to look at it, if you ask me. You don't think the argument can be made that the things someone associates a flag with can change with society? The Confederate flag is still used on the Mississippi state flag, and was on Georgia's until 2001. It's protected from desecration by Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, and South Carolina the same way the US flag is. Not to mention many southern states make special confederate themed license plates. Do you think the governments and citizens of all those states are inherently racist because they've kept the flag around? Do you feel like you know any more about Bubba Watson's character just because he wanted to drive a popular vehicle with a confederate flag on it?

A little critical thinking goes along way. It doesn't make any sense in 2012 to cast immediate judgement on everyone who flies a confederate flag. It simply does not represent what it did when it was created to most of those people.

As far as NASCAR's judgement, whatever. It's their call. I think it's a real shame though. Hard to believe a pop culture icon like the General Lee could become so socially unacceptable. Then again, maybe it isn't.
 
Jameswnh said:
That's an incredibly narrow minded way to look at it, if you ask me. You don't think the argument can be made that the things someone associates a flag with can change with society? The Confederate flag is still used on the Mississippi state flag, and was on Georgia's until 2001. It's protected from desecration by Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, and South Carolina the same way the US flag is. Not to mention many southern states make special confederate themed license plates. Do you think the governments and citizens of all those states are inherently racist because they've kept the flag around? Do you feel like you know any more about Bubba Watson's character just because he wanted to drive a popular vehicle with a confederate flag on it?

A little critical thinking goes along way. It doesn't make any sense in 2012 to cast immediate judgement on everyone who flies a confederate flag. It simply does not represent what it did when it was created to most of those people.

As far as NASCAR's judgement, whatever. It's their call. I think it's a real shame though. Hard to believe a pop culture icon like the General Lee could become so socially unacceptable. Then again, maybe it isn't.
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I stand firmly behind my statement. People can try and spin it any way they want but the Confederate flag represents an abhorrent part of American history. The fact it's still used today is shameful. Is it a coincidence that southern states routinely rank last in terms of education and first in poverty?
 
and yet we don't hear any complaints about CMT running re-runs of the Dukes of Hazzard pretty much every night on tv?
 
Matthew2470 said:
I stand firmly behind my statement. People can try and spin it any way they want but the Confederate flag represents an abhorrent part of American history. The fact it's still used today is shameful. Is it a coincidence that southern states routinely rank last in terms of education and first in poverty?
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Matthew2470: It is my opinion that you need to preface many of your statements with "in my opinion", rather than posting them as facts. For example, your above statements are your opinion, and not necessarily facts. The Confederate Flag may be abhorrent and shameful to you, but you need to respect other peoples' opinion that this flag is neither abhorrent nor shameful.
 
Eskimeaux said:
Matthew2470: It is my opinion that you need to preface many of your statements with "in my opinion", rather than posting them as facts. For example, your above statements are your opinion, and not necessarily facts. The Confederate Flag may be abhorrent and shameful to you, but you need to respect other peoples' opinion that this flag is neither abhorrent nor shameful.
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It's a message board. Most of what people post are opinions. There is no need to preface every statement with "in my opinion" because it's a given. And I stand firmly behind my opinions in this thread.
 
It's funny how so many people say nascar is a business when justifying their decisions, until they disagree with one of those decisions. NASCAR made a business decision to not endorse the confederate flag in order to attract part of a larger fanbase that is offended by that flag. NASCAR changed from the southern redneck sport to something larger a long time ago, so compromises have to be made along the way. Refusing to endorse a flag that flew over the armies fighting to preserve slavery is hard to argue with, but some find a way.
 
Maybe ..IMO...IMO ...Nascar didn't give a crap about the flag , but doesn't want to be seen as possibly being a redneck sport. Personally , I think that they should embrace it and flaunt it . It's like Crocodile Dundee denying that he has Austrailian roots in an effort to appeal to the New York market . Some stupid 'suit's ' idea .
 
ted@economy said:
Maybe ..IMO...IMO ...Nascar didn't give a crap about the flag , but doesn't want to be seen as possibly being a redneck sport. Personally , I think that they should embrace it and flaunt it . It's like Crocodile Dundee denying that he has Austrailian roots in an effort to appeal to the New York market . Some stupid 'suit's ' idea .
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Ask all the black guys working in the pits how they would feel about NASCAR endorsing that old racist flag.
 
I think most of the people flying that flag from their RV flagpole have all different romantic notions of what "it is".
 
ted@economy said:
Maybe ..IMO...IMO ...Nascar didn't give a crap about the flag , but doesn't want to be seen as possibly being a redneck sport. Personally , I think that they should embrace it and flaunt it . It's like Crocodile Dundee denying that he has Austrailian roots in an effort to appeal to the New York market . Some stupid 'suit's ' idea .
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And yet NASCAR allows performers do the anthem while improperly displaying the American flag.

This is so very sad...
 
Matthew2470 said:
Ask all the black guys working in the pits how they would feel about NASCAR endorsing that old racist flag.
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I wasn't really talking about the flag , I was talking about Nascar denying its southern roots.
 
ted@economy said:
I wasn't really talking about the flag , I was talking about Nascar denying its southern roots.
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That's not possible. Everyone knows that NASCAR started as a southern sport. It's like saying the NHL is denying it's Canadian roots.

Also, they still pray before each race and play that god-awful country music at the tracks and during the broadcasts. Many of the announcers are southern as well.
 
News flash! Racing started right here in the midwest.

http://www.eyewitnesstohistory.com/duryea.htm

The following year, Frank developed a second car with a more powerful two-cylinder engine. It was this car that he drove in America's first automobile race on Thanksgiving Day, November 27, 1895. The race was sponsored by the Chicago Times-Herald and ran a 54-mile course from down-town Chicago to Evanston, Il and back.
 
OK y'all go back to arguin bout da dam flag ,y'hear. Sorry to interrup with another point of view.:dual9mm::whoopee:
 
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