Cup Championship RACE thread

Bonus points for winning a race prevents that.

And NASCAR corrected that in the mid-late 2000s by adding 5 more points for the winner but it was after the Chase was implemented.

But the talking point is that a system isn't legitimate if a guy can win 35 races and then not win the championship. What anyone who parrots that talking point is saying is that the Latford system wasn't legitimate. This is the problem with parroting talking points, sometimes they aren't as strong as you think.
 
And this is why I hate this format, and have hated it since The Chase was implemented. Just the fact that people can suggest this that this statement is true......... you, me and the rest of this board know that isnt true but the fact that it is said is a con of this system. As for those saying the best driver didnt win this year, well statistically, I guess someone could make a case for that but he won the championship in the same format as everyone else. His team figured something out at the start of the playoffs, got hot and won.... it really is as simple as that. He's just as deserving a champion as the rest in this year's Championship 4 and the rest that have won before him, he was the best in this format when it mattered.
If somebody is that ignorant to think that wins, owner points, manufacturer points and driver points doesn't matter, do they even rate the space for a comment?
 
At the end of the day, will NASCAR fans accept Ryan Blaney as champion? My guess is "yes" in no small part that a "post-season" has existed in NASCAR for nearly 20 years. Pretty much any fan under 30 predominantly knows and probably accepts if not prefers this format.

Like with Hudson O'Neal winning the Lucas Oil Late Model title, I'm not enamored with the system that produced it but also recognize that both NASCAR and dirt late models are not my primary focus as a racing fan. I can watch plenty of other things that I find more pleasing to what I want to get from racing.

As someone who honestly doesn't follow much week to week, my major takeaway from looking at the stats and the kinda lousy way in which the playoffs are structured and shown to fans is that Blaney could be stated as having essentially "won his way out" to get the title. I'd love to see it be explained otherwise to me what role the stage points may have played in him making the final 12 given that he won races in the next two stages to put him in the finale, and was in the playoffs largely because he won a single "regular season" race. The entire purpose of the stages as they are constructed from a competition standpoint (I understand the real reason for them is to have extended commercial breaks) is that they provide points which have relevance to the title picture. I'm not sure that there is actually evidence for this. It actually seems more or less like winning a race in the regular season to guarantee playoff berth followed by "in season testing" during races would have more value. Blaney won the 14th points race of the season out of 26: in the 13 preceding the Coke 600, he has an average finished of 12.5. In the 12 following the Coke 600, his average finish slips to 20.7. Starting position drops two spots from 11.8 to 13.8. Lots of context I'm probably missing though.
I think most fans like the idea of Ryan Blaney as a champion, even if this statistically is maybe not his best or most complete season. He’s had some poor luck in the past and generally shown himself to be a driver with champion potential, although often hasn’t been able to seal the deal in a lot of race win scenarios. I think there’s certainly a bit of disconnect in feeling like it would be this season though, since he was mostly absentee for a large chunk of the season between his Coke 600 win and the Round of 12 (though he did get wrecked out of two of his better runs during that time at Nashville and Daytona). But it’s hard to argue against a guy being a “deserving” champion when he gets it done at the end, and his closing stretch of 1st-12th-6th-2nd-1st-2nd is probably one of the best championship close out performances of the playoffs, dating all the way back through the debut of the Chase in 2004.
 
I think most fans like the idea of Ryan Blaney as a champion, even if this statistically is maybe not his best or most complete season. He’s had some poor luck in the past and generally shown himself to be a driver with champion potential, although often hasn’t been able to seal the deal in a lot of race win scenarios. I think there’s certainly a bit of disconnect in feeling like it would be this season though, since he was mostly absentee for a large chunk of the season between his Coke 600 win and the Round of 12 (though he did get wrecked out of two of his better runs during that time at Nashville and Daytona). But it’s hard to argue against a guy being a “deserving” champion when he gets it done at the end, and his closing stretch of 1st-12th-6th-2nd-1st-2nd is probably one of the best championship close out performances of the playoffs, dating all the way back through the debut of the Chase in 2004.
It was reported as the third best run in the playoffs behind Stewart and another driver I can't remember. One of the problems was that it wasn't reported while it was happening and it was a surprise to many with Blaney winning it all.
It's will never stop about the playoffs, in the last 20 years the playoffs have been changed 6 times. The points system was changed 9 times in the first 25 years.
 
I think most fans like the idea of Ryan Blaney as a champion, even if this statistically is maybe not his best or most complete season. He’s had some poor luck in the past and generally shown himself to be a driver with champion potential, although often hasn’t been able to seal the deal in a lot of race win scenarios. I think there’s certainly a bit of disconnect in feeling like it would be this season though, since he was mostly absentee for a large chunk of the season between his Coke 600 win and the Round of 12 (though he did get wrecked out of two of his better runs during that time at Nashville and Daytona). But it’s hard to argue against a guy being a “deserving” champion when he gets it done at the end, and his closing stretch of 1st-12th-6th-2nd-1st-2nd is probably one of the best championship close out performances of the playoffs, dating all the way back through the debut of the Chase in 2004.
Just to be clear, I'm not trying to poo-poo Blaney for this. It doesn't bother me at all, much less in the way that Harvick losing a title after being dominant all season did. My point is more that it seems like it reinforces my viewpoint towards the chase that the stage points don't actually matter at all and are a red herring intended to spice up the races mid-season when many favorites are already locked in. If stages were introduced in large part to try and prevent locked in teams from riding around and testing for later in season rather than racing in the present, it may already be failing at that.
It was reported as the third best run in the playoffs behind Stewart and another driver I can't remember. One of the problems was that it wasn't reported while it was happening and it was a surprise to many with Blaney winning it all.
For a lot of reasons, I don't think much analysis of the playoffs has been done outside of things paid for by the teams themselves. NASCAR could be at fault for this in part because they've parsed down the data available to researchers and the like following their acquisition of Racing Reference (which they have also started to run into the ground). You can also suggest (rightfully imo) that what coverage that exists does so with the expressed approval of NASCAR, so they could approve something of that nature to be written or discussed on Sirius XM or on TV or whatever.
 
Ty Gibbs had a solid rookie season.
I’ll bet that kid learned a lot this year.

He didn't act like the spoiled little brat that he was in the Xfinity series, he certainly surprised me. Life, especially when it is unfair has a way of making people grow up. I really wanted to dislike him but he made that difficult.
 
For a lot of reasons, I don't think much analysis of the playoffs has been done outside of things paid for by the teams themselves. NASCAR could be at fault for this in part because they've parsed down the data available to researchers and the like following their acquisition of Racing Reference (which they have also started to run into the ground). You can also suggest (rightfully imo) that what coverage that exists does so with the expressed approval of NASCAR, so they could approve something of that nature to be written or discussed on Sirius XM or on TV or whatever.
There was plenty of coverage by the press during the chase run. The examples I was talking about went all throughout the Chase. The most glaring was when the 4 commentators on Race Hub were picking who would win the final race, nobody picked Ryan Blaney. On almost all of the pre-race shows Blaney was the last driver talked about.

There are a lot of reasons for that. Part of it is that Blaney is a tough interview, another is that the Penske cars weren't performing all year so the press kept their focus on other drivers. I wore out the example of the gerbils and Truex, and to a lesser extent Hamlin every race.

Another reason is the chaotic nature of the points system at that point in the round of 8 exacerbated by the total confusion reporting by the NBC race booth. He's up he's down, he's ok, he's not all race long is in a way fake drama that has little if any bearing on the final outcome of the race. PRN and later MRN did a much better job IMO of balancing the points talk as they ran and the reporting of all of the field in the race batteling for positions. They took into consideration the whole field in their race reporting while keeping up with the Chase, but it wasn't constantly crammed down our throats.

The TV guys had it so they didn't have to do any homework, their prep work for the race was to show up, look at a chart, and start ratcheting up the points, cut off lines, point to the drivers above and below the line and ignore the rest of the field every race unless one of them screwed up. Nothing for example about McDowell coming from 28th to 10th, or what Elliott, or any other driver was having a good or a bad day.
 
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He didn't act like the spoiled little brat that he was in the Xfinity series, he certainly surprised me. Life, especially when it is unfair has a way of making people grow up. I really wanted to dislike him but he made that difficult.
Most scholars recognize there were some silent years of Christ minstry were the there were no scriptural references to his ministry or work.

This is also the phase that young Ty Gibbs has entered or is currently serving. People just need to stay patient and the great works of Ty shall be upon us soon.
Most definitely by 2025 if not in 2024.
 
Most scholars recognize there were some silent years of Christ minstry were the there were no scriptural references to his ministry or work.

This is also the phase that young Ty Gibbs has entered or is currently serving. People just need to stay patient and the great works of Ty shall be upon us soon.
Most definitely by 2025 if not in 2024.
You forget the preacher-ett's helmet period, when he smote the black Mayer and crushed him with his I'm better than you edict. I am the golden boy he said, they all bow as I part the field, in pop pop's admirals barge.
 
If history has anything to say, we’ll get a new point system next year. The Chase came in 2004. 2014 we got the playoffs. 2024? Let’s see.

Doubt we do get anything different. Just neat.

Yeah I know we had other changes in there between 04 and 14. But I think the 04-13 one was the same in terms of being 10 races. Just the driver amount changed.
 
If history has anything to say, we’ll get a new point system next year. The Chase came in 2004. 2014 we got the playoffs. 2024? Let’s see.

Doubt we do get anything different. Just neat.

Yeah I know we had other changes in there between 04 and 14. But I think the 04-13 one was the same in terms of being 10 races. Just the driver amount changed.
Next year they're going full out who's line is it anyway. The points don't matter and we make up the rules as we go along. Maybe they should add a fan vote to the playoffs? That way you vote your driver into the final 4!

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Next year they're going full out who's line is it anyway. The points don't matter and we make up the rules as we go along. Maybe they should add a fan vote to the playoffs? That way you vote your driver into the final 4!

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I didn’t even watch Phoenix Cup race. It didn’t matter to me.
 
If the TV rating for the last race isn't significantly higher than the average race, what's the point of making a joke of the points system with a single final 4 event? Cut the playoff field back to 12 and make the last round 4 races.
 

Harvick and Junior prefer a full season championship, little key words like “body of work and represent a season” kind of give that away, which is interesting to me because I’ll always value a racer’s opinion and what they think. I’ve seen the uproar on socials over Blaney winning, I can’t remember at least lately, the loud call to change the points once again. Honestly, I don’t think NASCAR has the cajones to change it again or modify, they’re fully entrenched with what we have now, I think it would take something catastrophic, flukey or gave the sport a black eye to even get them to consider it. I saw a tweet yesterday that showed the ratings for every championship race has fallen since 2015, I’ll try to find it here and post it, but I couldn’t believe it when I saw it
 
You forget the preacher-ett's helmet period, when he smote the black Mayer and crushed him with his I'm better than you edict. I am the golden boy he said, they all bow as I part the field, in pop pop's admirals barge.
He has never referred to his grandfather as pop pop. That is reserved for Poor Richard and his no talent grandchildren. Be better at being you.....or just zip it, and admit that he had a very nice rookie season.
 
He didn't act like the spoiled little brat that he was in the Xfinity series, he certainly surprised me. Life, especially when it is unfair has a way of making people grow up. I really wanted to dislike him but he made that difficult.
He doesn't care that you were surprised, and what happened to him is none of your business. Maybe disliking him would be easier?
 
He doesn't care that you were surprised, and what happened to him is none of your business. Maybe disliking him would be easier?

Well yes, it was publicly stated which makes it my business. And I don't care if he doesn't care just like I don't care about your opinion on anything Toyota related because it means absolutely nothing. Nothing you say about Toyota can be taken seriously.
 
As a Blaney fan it gets so tiresome to hear the talk about HIM not being able to seal the deal.
Kyle Petty and many others need to go back and look at the stats for these particular races where YRB didn't end up winning.
I'm betting that in fully 80 to 85% of these races Blaney was either hobbled by a bad pit box decision, the pit crew lost him several spots on the money stop or he was taken out.
Ryan is not mistake free by any stretch, but he has overcome a lot of adversity to win as much as he has. Even in this championship race.
 
Well yes, it was publicly stated which makes it my business. And I don't care if he doesn't care just like I don't care about your opinion on anything Toyota related because it means absolutely nothing. Nothing you say about Toyota can be taken seriously.
Have a great kindergarten year.
 
That looked like a relatively positive comment on Gibbs. Not sure why you've pulled your panties up your crack over it.
Relatively. Ty has never spoken about his Dad'sdeath. The impact of that is his story, and his alone....as are my panties.
 
As a Blaney fan it gets so tiresome to hear the talk about HIM not being able to seal the deal.
Kyle Petty and many others need to go back and look at the stats for these particular races where YRB didn't end up winning.
I'm betting that in fully 80 to 85% of these races Blaney was either hobbled by a bad pit box decision, the pit crew lost him several spots on the money stop or he was taken out.
Ryan is not mistake free by any stretch, but he has overcome a lot of adversity to win as much as he has. Even in this championship race.
I like Kyle, but he's one of the last people who should be knocking anyone for "wasted potential".
 
Preacher has put a muzzle on the young Gibber. Rev as taken a tip from Gerbil Jeff and thinks he's Ty's mouthpiece.
Ty needed muzzled. As I recall, he compared himself to Jesus Christ late in 2022. Only presidential candidates are allowed to do that.

That doesn't mean he has to stay muzzled. At his age, I said some pretty stupid stuff too. I still do, just not as much. More important, I'm not dependent on keeping a sponsor happy for my income.
 
Have a great kindergarten year.
Says the guy who just thru a fit when he didn't like what I was saying about the altar boy when I was actually complimenting him. But yeah, reading comprehension isn't taught until 2nd grade.
 
Says the guy who just thru a fit when he didn't like what I was saying about the altar boy when I was actually complimenting him. But yeah, reading comprehension isn't taught until 2nd grade.
There ya go. You got it out. Let's be done.
 
He didn't do that, but ya know...the narrative. I get it.
No narrative. I'm probably not recalling the details correctly. I'm pretty sure he said something easily misquoted. For whatever reason, he hasn't done that this season.
 
No narrative. I'm probably not recalling the details correctly. I'm pretty sure he said something easily misquoted. For whatever reason, he hasn't done that this season.
If you can bind Clair B. Lang's interview with his father after he won the Xfinity Championship, you will understand the reason(s) why we have a different Ty this year.
 
New game for the forum, let's all take a shot whenever Rev says "narrative" and see who is the last man standing
Some things never change. Maybe someone should get him a thesaurus for Christmas so he can continue to say the same thing, just differently

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Finally got around to listening to the teardown last night and they mentioned how Blaney only having 8 top 5's is the lowest of any champion as far back as they could go.

This format might create drama, but it definitely doesn't crown the most deserving teams. The last 2 years guys won that were just able to limp through the season compared to the competition.

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Some things never change. Maybe someone should get him a thesaurus for Christmas so he can continue to say the same thing, just differently

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Yeah, that's kind of what goes on around here....same thing, just different. I like consistency.
 
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