Cup RACE thread — Darlington

kkfan91 said:
I'll say at first I thought it was just the 9 and 48 screwing up but the 5 and 24 threw out the parachutes in stage 3...never would of guess Chase be the highest finishing HMS car the way his night went.
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Don't know what happened to the 5. He was in the top 5 or 6 most of the race, then just went backwards.
 
So I thought the race overall was a good race. Cars could pass and tires meant a lot.

I am just shocked by some of what I am seeing here. First - How is Toyota so much better than the field? I think if I am remembering right they took the top 4 and 6 of the top 7? OMG. I just don't understand anymore what Chevy is even doing and as my driver enters his prime driving years I am questioning if he should be looking to jump ship if Chevy is content to just get their asses handed to them like this.

That was THE worst team performance by HMS as a whole I have ever seen. For Chase to be carrying the banner in 17th is a pathetic joke and I am curious to see what Mr. H will have to say about this. I know Larson had some damage but he suddenly just dropped like a rock at the end. Bowman had endless issues and the worst pit stop I have ever seen. Byron was just awful at the end.

As for Chase - The car was not actually too bad. There were many times at the beginning and end of the race that he was running top 3 lap times. AG's strategy was the biggest head scratcher to me all night. They kept running long for like 7-10 laps apparently expecting to get it back at the end but that just never materialized and when it did not work in stage one I thought they would let it go but apparently not. AG was committed to it. When the caution came out for Cody Ware that killed the strategy completely and AG was complaining about Ware on the radio and I was thinking how stupid to have a strategy that depended on no caution coming out at a place like Darlington. I feel like if he kept Chase on even tires and stopped running long then Chase would likely have been a top 10 - especially with the way things played out at the end as his car seemed best on the last run until about 10 laps to go.

I feel like all HMS cars except Bowman are probably OK and going to make the round of 12 but if Chase has another run like that or a DNF then maybe not. I am really not too concerned about it at this point though because they clearly have nothing to compete for a title unless there is a sudden drastic change. I do feel like if Bowman misses the round of 12 people will be calling for his head but I just think it's not his fault at this point.

I will end of what may be the most unpopular thing I have ever said and I can't believe I am saying it but I am hoping for a title for Denny at this point. I know he is hated by the masses but he is a great driver and done a lot for the sport and he deserves it.
 
Some of you HMS fans are so spoiled and entitled. It was one bad race, get a grip.

You chose to root for the best team in NASCAR history and meltdown after 1 bad weekend.

R-E-L-A-X
 
antman12 said:
Some of you HMS fans are so spoiled and entitled. It was one bad race, get a grip.

You chose to root for the best team in NASCAR history and meltdown after 1 bad weekend.

R-E-L-A-X
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They need time. Let them heal. 🤣
 
antman12 said:
Some of you HMS fans are so spoiled and entitled. It was one bad race, get a grip.

You chose to root for the best team in NASCAR history and meltdown after 1 bad weekend.

R-E-L-A-X
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A bad weekend in the playoffs would make anyone nervous. With only three races per round, you can barely afford to have a bad race. Thankfully for them, they have Berry, SVG and Dillon who will likely save them from elimination this round.
 
antman12 said:
Some of you HMS fans are so spoiled and entitled. It was one bad race, get a grip.

You chose to root for the best team in NASCAR history and meltdown after 1 bad weekend.

R-E-L-A-X
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I can deal with bad luck. I can deal with just getting beat. What I'm not ready to accept is showing up for a gun fight with a Daisy Red Ryder and combining that with unforced errors topped off with some head scratching pit strategy. None of these four cars were exactly lighting up the scoreboard as it was, only to lay an ostrich sized egg at Darlington, and with another track coming up that HMS has not set the world on fire at, yeah, I'm ready to hit the panic button. Just for the record, I was an HMS fan from day one and were one race from going out of business, so I didn't just CHOOSE to be a fan of the sport's most powerful team, it just sort of evolved.
 
Formerjackman said:
I can deal with bad luck. I can deal with just getting beat. What I'm not ready to accept is showing up for a gun fight with a Daisy Red Ryder and combining that with unforced errors topped off with some head scratching pit strategy. None of these four cars were exactly lighting up the scoreboard as it was, only to lay an ostrich sized egg at Darlington, and with another track coming up that HMS has not set the world on fire at, yeah, I'm ready to hit the panic button. Just for the record, I was an HMS fan from day one and were one race from going out of business, so I didn't just CHOOSE to be a fan of the sport's most powerful team, it just sort of evolved.
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Darlington is one of Hendrick’s best tracks and they laid an egg. Now we’re headed to their statistically worst track on the schedule.
 
antman12 said:
Some of you HMS fans are so spoiled and entitled. It was one bad race, get a grip.

You chose to root for the best team in NASCAR history and meltdown after 1 bad weekend.

R-E-L-A-X
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Really? To show up to the playoffs and lay an egg and HMS fans should R-E-LA-X? No chance. It's one thing to miss it some and struggle to run top-10 but to only have one car in the top 20 is not acceptable for a top-notch organization. It has nothing to do with being "spoiled" or "entitled." I know I am entitled to exactly squat but as fan I am waiting to see a reaction of some type from the organization.
 
Formerjackman said:
I can deal with bad luck. I can deal with just getting beat. What I'm not ready to accept is showing up for a gun fight with a Daisy Red Ryder and combining that with unforced errors topped off with some head scratching pit strategy. None of these four cars were exactly lighting up the scoreboard as it was, only to lay an ostrich sized egg at Darlington, and with another track coming up that HMS has not set the world on fire at, yeah, I'm ready to hit the panic button. Just for the record, I was an HMS fan from day one and were one race from going out of business, so I didn't just CHOOSE to be a fan of the sport's most powerful team, it just sort of evolved.
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I am not sure that Hendrick is horrible. MY Toyota guys had rockets, and rockets make ordinary look slow. When ordinary is trying to battle superior, that puts pressure on all aspects of the endeavor. I know what I am talking about.....MY Toyotas won two races in 2014. ChevroRick got their asses kicked in one race. They aren't going away.
 
Chase Fan 79 said:
Really? To show up to the playoffs and lay an egg and HMS fans should R-E-LA-X? No chance. It's one thing to miss it some and struggle to run top-10 but to only have one car in the top 20 is not acceptable for a top-notch organization. It has nothing to do with being "spoiled" or "entitled." I know I am entitled to exactly squat but as fan I am waiting to see a reaction of some type from the organization.
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They got beat by a superior organization. Nothing to hang your head about. Ford is handling it better I think.
 
Formerjackman said:
I can deal with bad luck. I can deal with just getting beat. What I'm not ready to accept is showing up for a gun fight with a Daisy Red Ryder and combining that with unforced errors topped off with some head scratching pit strategy. None of these four cars were exactly lighting up the scoreboard as it was, only to lay an ostrich sized egg at Darlington, and with another track coming up that HMS has not set the world on fire at, yeah, I'm ready to hit the panic button. Just for the record, I was an HMS fan from day one and were one race from going out of business, so I didn't just CHOOSE to be a fan of the sport's most powerful team, it just sort of evolved.
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Now there is someone who GETS IT. I know they will not have the fastest cars every race. Expecting that would be spoiled and entitled. However, it seemed like amateur hour out there on Bowman's pit stop and Chase's strategy and Chase also had a bungled pit-stop although no place near the disaster that Bowman's was. If they just would execute it would not have been the disaster it was.
 
Efisher131 said:
Darlington is one of Hendrick’s best tracks and they laid an egg. Now we’re headed to their statistically worst track on the schedule.
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Exactly. It's the flatter/shorter tracks that Toyota owns right now and HMS struggles at so I am not going to relax. Although, I feel like if multiple HMS cars miss the round of 12 maybe that will get their attention and drastic changes will come. I like AG a lot but the sport has passed him by IMO. They seem to put little focus on qualifying and then he still calls the race like Chase does not need track position.
 
Revman said:
They got beat by a superior organization. Nothing to hang your head about. Ford is handling it better I think.
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I know by "organization" you mean Toyota and that's where Chevy is missing it to me. Does not seem like they do as well sharing data.
 
Chase Fan 79 said:
I know by "organization" you mean Toyota and that's where Chevy is missing it to me. Does not seem like they do as well sharing data.
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They never have. That's why Jimmie went to Toyota. In Chevy....you have The Chain Gang.....and then whatever is left for everybody else. Coach left for the same reason back in the day. Marks made a big mistake hooking his wagon to that horse IMO. Having said all of that, it is good value for Chevy. Give The Felon everything, and let him build and develop it, so they don't have to. The Chain Gang wins a ton, Chevy gets the PR. Makes sense....until it doesn't.
 
Chase Fan 79 said:
Now there is someone who GETS IT. I know they will not have the fastest cars every race. Expecting that would be spoiled and entitled. However, it seemed like amateur hour out there on Bowman's pit stop and Chase's strategy and Chase also had a bungled pit-stop although no place near the disaster that Bowman's was. If they just would execute it would not have been the disaster it was.
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This is true. Ordinary looks really bad when the execution sucks.....and, again, I have seen MY Toyotas flush great days down the toilet not because of the stuff they brought to the track, but because of the execution--Richmond comes to mind. David Wilson, retired TRD President, talked about the five essentials in winning.....Motor, Aero, Strategy, Pit Performance, and Driver. In this Next Gen era, if you are off on one, you are off a ton.
 
Revman said:
They never have. That's why Jimmie went to Toyota. In Chevy....you have The Chain Gang.....and then whatever is left for everybody else. Coach left for the same reason back in the day. Marks made a big mistake hooking his wagon to that horse IMO. Having said all of that, it is good value for Chevy. Give The Felon everything, and let him build and develop it, so they don't have to. The Chain Gang wins a ton, Chevy gets the PR. Makes sense....until it doesn't.
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Don't flatter yourself, Coach went to Toyota because they threw a TON of money at them. As for Legacy, for years Toyota only gave decent funding to ONE team, and they finally got up to three, and yet you keep slamming Chevy for not wanting to pony up a ton of money to like the FIFTH best team they had, and a team that had recently came dragging ass to Chevy after flaming out with Dodge and Ford. Seems a little hypocritical to ME, Rev.
 
Formerjackman said:
Don't flatter yourself, Coach went to Toyota because they threw a TON of money at them. As for Legacy, for years Toyota only gave decent funding to ONE team, and they finally got up to three, and yet you keep slamming Chevy for not wanting to pony up a ton of money to like the FIFTH best team they had, and a team that had recently came dragging ass to Chevy after flaming out with Dodge and Ford. Seems a little hypocritical to ME, Rev.
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I don't think that The Felon's deal with ChevroRick is any different than Coach's deal with Toyota....and Toyota initially went to a limited the number of teams after TRD took over the engine program due to production capacity. That situation did morph into a competition philosophy of limited numbers of cars for a lot of reasons, but mostly to keep Coach happy. Stuff was proprietary back then, and Coach didn't want others to have what he had. When the Next Gen game into play, David Wilson realized that you weren't going to gain as big of a competitive advantage with the car, so expanding the number of teams became necessary if you wanted to win, hence, Legacy. My issue with ChevroRick is that they turned their backs on a guy who represented that brand in the best way possible. I listen to Jimmie's podcast, and he was as shocked as I was that ChevroRick was unwilling to give him the support he was looking for in order to become a lasting part of sport. Toyota happily did, and loves Jimmie. I was in the GR Garage fan zone in Sonoma when Jimmie was getting inducted into the Sonoma Raceway Hall of Fame. Loved it when OUR MC--Rob--announced Jimmie's induction and said that he was pretty successful with "another manufacturer." We don't speak that brand's name in the GR Garage. :) Fun fact....Jimmie is the only Toyota owner to ever visit the Toyota headquarters in Japan.
 
Revman said:
I don't think that The Felon's deal with ChevroRick is any different than Coach's deal with Toyota....and Toyota initially went to a limited the number of teams after TRD took over the engine program due to production capacity. That situation did morph into a competition philosophy of limited numbers of cars for a lot of reasons, but mostly to keep Coach happy. Stuff was proprietary back then, and Coach didn't want others to have what he had. When the Next Gen game into play, David Wilson realized that you weren't going to gain as big of a competitive advantage with the car, so expanding the number of teams became necessary if you wanted to win, hence, Legacy. My issue with ChevroRick is that they turned their backs on a guy who represented that brand in the best way possible. I listen to Jimmie's podcast, and he was as shocked as I was that ChevroRick was unwilling to give him the support he was looking for in order to become a lasting part of sport. Toyota happily did, and loves Jimmie. I was in the GR Garage fan zone in Sonoma when Jimmie was getting inducted into the Sonoma Raceway Hall of Fame. Loved it when OUR MC--Rob--announced Jimmie's induction and said that he was pretty successful with "another manufacturer." We don't speak that brand's name in the GR Garage. :) Fun fact....Jimmie is the only Toyota owner to ever visit the Toyota headquarters in Japan.
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I have been patiently waiting for a Conner Zilch and SVG nick name reveal.

You are two drivers behind already and it will be.a real crisis If Junior's gets some cup charters, will you be ready?
 
Rev reminds me a lot like the tribalisic wrestling fans for WWE and AEW. Alot of them will talk mad crap about a wrestler in the "other company." but the second they jump to the company they love, they become a huge fan.

A recent example, there was this women's wrestler in AEW, her name was Mariah May. You see alot of people giving her the nickname Temu Tiffany Stratton(one of the women in WWE). Even though they are nothing alike other than maybe looks. But their characters completely different. She leaves AEW, and goes to WWE. Now all of those fans who called her Temu Tiffany Stratton, out of nowhere were such huge fans and loved her. Then on the other side of the coin, some AEW fans who loved her, are now saying she's overrated and not very good. It's honestly pretty hilarious, much like it is with Rev.
 
Revman said:
I don't think that The Felon's deal with ChevroRick is any different than Coach's deal with Toyota....and Toyota initially went to a limited the number of teams after TRD took over the engine program due to production capacity. That situation did morph into a competition philosophy of limited numbers of cars for a lot of reasons, but mostly to keep Coach happy. Stuff was proprietary back then, and Coach didn't want others to have what he had. When the Next Gen game into play, David Wilson realized that you weren't going to gain as big of a competitive advantage with the car, so expanding the number of teams became necessary if you wanted to win, hence, Legacy. My issue with ChevroRick is that they turned their backs on a guy who represented that brand in the best way possible. I listen to Jimmie's podcast, and he was as shocked as I was that ChevroRick was unwilling to give him the support he was looking for in order to become a lasting part of sport. Toyota happily did, and loves Jimmie. I was in the GR Garage fan zone in Sonoma when Jimmie was getting inducted into the Sonoma Raceway Hall of Fame. Loved it when OUR MC--Rob--announced Jimmie's induction and said that he was pretty successful with "another manufacturer." We don't speak that brand's name in the GR Garage. :) Fun fact....Jimmie is the only Toyota owner to ever visit the Toyota headquarters in Japan.
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The rice burners were publicly begging for more teams to race their car. All they got was Legacy, who had kicked around under different names and owners in the bottom of the barrel with other manufacturers. As usual Revman's fairy tale is interesting reading but mostly nonsense. As they say, here is the rest of the story.

 
Revman said:
I don't think that The Felon's deal with ChevroRick is any different than Coach's deal with Toyota....and Toyota initially went to a limited the number of teams after TRD took over the engine program due to production capacity. That situation did morph into a competition philosophy of limited numbers of cars for a lot of reasons, but mostly to keep Coach happy. Stuff was proprietary back then, and Coach didn't want others to have what he had. When the Next Gen game into play, David Wilson realized that you weren't going to gain as big of a competitive advantage with the car, so expanding the number of teams became necessary if you wanted to win, hence, Legacy. My issue with ChevroRick is that they turned their backs on a guy who represented that brand in the best way possible. I listen to Jimmie's podcast, and he was as shocked as I was that ChevroRick was unwilling to give him the support he was looking for in order to become a lasting part of sport. Toyota happily did, and loves Jimmie. I was in the GR Garage fan zone in Sonoma when Jimmie was getting inducted into the Sonoma Raceway Hall of Fame. Loved it when OUR MC--Rob--announced Jimmie's induction and said that he was pretty successful with "another manufacturer." We don't speak that brand's name in the GR Garage. :) Fun fact....Jimmie is the only Toyota owner to ever visit the Toyota headquarters in Japan.
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Nobody told Jimmie to buy into a crappy third tier racing team that had no history with or loyalty to Chevrolet. If you were Childress or Kaulig or the Spire guys, how would YOU feel if some Jimmie-come-lately just jumps in and gets a deal as good or better than you have? I give Chevy credit for honoring the commitments they already made and not wreck the pecking order just because one of their former stars decided to hitch his wagon to the sorriest mule in the stable. Nobody would have ever heard of Jimmie Johnson if not for Herb Fishel and Chevy's checkbook, so if anyone owes anything, it's Jimmie to Chevy, not the other way around.
 
Formerjackman said:
Nobody told Jimmie to buy into a crappy third tier racing team that had no history with or loyalty to Chevrolet. If you were Childress or Kaulig or the Spire guys, how would YOU feel if some Jimmie-come-lately just jumps in and gets a deal as good or better than you have? I give Chevy credit for honoring the commitments they already made and not wreck the pecking order just because one of their former stars decided to hitch his wagon to the sorriest mule in the stable. Nobody would have ever heard of Jimmie Johnson if not for Herb Fishel and Chevy's checkbook, so if anyone owes anything, it's Jimmie to Chevy, not the other way around.
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I don't think that Spire or Kaulig were ever Jimmie's target. He was thinking more Chain Gang. Go big or go home. Jimmie did more for Chevy than Kaylie or Spire ever will...or the whole RCR mess for that matter. This is not some Jimmie-come-lately....This is Jimmie ****** Johnson AKA Seven Time. Jimmie made a brilliant business move that took a lot of balls....again he speaks to this on his podcast, and it is just starting to pay off. WE ****** love him, and his trip to Japan to learn the GR culture is proof that he is now one of OURS for the long haul.
 
Revman said:
I don't think that Spire or Kaulig were ever Jimmie's target. He was thinking more Chain Gang. Go big or go home. Jimmie did more for Chevy than Kaylie or Spire ever will...or the whole RCR mess for that matter. This is not some Jimmie-come-lately....This is Jimmie ****** Johnson AKA Seven Time. Jimmie made a brilliant business move that took a lot of balls....again he speaks to this on his podcast, and it is just starting to pay off. WE ****** love him, and his trip to Japan to learn the GR culture is proof that he is now one of OURS for the long haul.
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Jimmie had a chance to be part OF the "Chain Gang", but wasn't interested in being a car owner then, and Spire and Kaulig were here in NASCAR building up their spot on the Chevy food chain while Jimmie was off pretending to be an Indycar driver. As for Childress, he's a REAL legacy, he was running Chevy's when it wasn't even cool yet, and his shop produced six Cup titles, so like the Wood Brothers with Ford, RC has a lifetime pass to be mediocre now. Honestly, Jimmie was a great DRIVER for us, but as a car owner, if want him, you can have him, we were fine with who we had before Jimmie decided to be a car owner, and we are fine with who we have now. Even if we eventually lose Kaulig, which seems likely, I'm sure it won't take a week to find a suitable replacement. Remember, we always have Jr. on the bench, a guy that has EARNED his place as a Chevy car owner in the Xfinity Series. Jimmie-come-lately had EVERY opportunity to do what jeff and Jr did and took a pass, so if he truly IS butt hurt now, that's disappointing. I thought he was better than that. :)
 
Formerjackman said:
Jimmie had a chance to be part OF the "Chain Gang", but wasn't interested in being a car owner then, and Spire and Kaulig were here in NASCAR building up their spot on the Chevy food chain while Jimmie was off pretending to be an Indycar driver. As for Childress, he's a REAL legacy, he was running Chevy's when it wasn't even cool yet, and his shop produced six Cup titles, so like the Wood Brothers with Ford, RC has a lifetime pass to be mediocre now. Honestly, Jimmie was a great DRIVER for us, but as a car owner, if want him, you can have him, we were fine with who we had before Jimmie decided to be a car owner, and we are fine with who we have now. Even if we eventually lose Kaulig, which seems likely, I'm sure it won't take a week to find a suitable replacement. Remember, we always have Jr. on the bench, a guy that has EARNED his place as a Chevy car owner in the Xfinity Series. Jimmie-come-lately had EVERY opportunity to do what jeff and Jr did and took a pass, so if he truly IS butt hurt now, that's disappointing. I thought he was better than that. :)
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To get into a Chevy, Jimmie had to go through The Felon? He wanted to go his own way....and so he has. RC had a pretty good driver.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I have to get back to my policy of not reopening race threads after Monday.
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At least this time it had nothing to do with me. LOL. I am not sure what the debate is here. It's pretty common knowledge that Toyota spends big money to get better product on the track.
 
Revman said:
To get into a Chevy, Jimmie had to go through The Felon? He wanted to go his own way....and so he has. RC had a pretty good driver.
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I don't think I have to tell you that Jimmie was offered an ownership stake in HMS just like Jeff a couple of times, but turned it down. Perhaps if Jimmie had shown ANY kind of interest in car ownership years ago, Chevy and or Rick would have greased the skids in that direction, but if you suddenly show up out of nowhere, you can't get all bent out of shape because you weren't left with a seat at the table when nobody knew you were even in town.
 
Formerjackman said:
I don't think I have to tell you that Jimmie was offered an ownership stake in HMS just like Jeff a couple of times, but turned it down. Perhaps if Jimmie had shown ANY kind of interest in car ownership years ago, Chevy and or Rick would have greased the skids in that direction, but if you suddenly show up out of nowhere, you can't get all bent out of shape because you weren't left with a seat at the table when nobody knew you were even in town.
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Wonder why he turned it down.
 
Revman said:
Wonder why he turned it down.
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Might have not been interested in ownership at that time, regardless of team or manufacturer. Might have felt it would interfere with his IndyCar effort. Who knows? People change.

If you bump into him at some Toyota get-together, ask him for us, okay? Thanks!
 
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