Cup RACE thread --- Daytona

jaqua19 said:
Elliott Sadler flipped on pavement and was sideways at a higher rate of speed than Preece was here. Chris Bell in the Trucks a handful of years as well..similar flips. Even more air.

Sorry. I don't buy "this wreck was an exception".

If this wreck happened exactly as is in the late gen 4, COT, or gen 6, the driver is just fine and isn't transported to a local hospital.

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This is hysteria with limited data. Ryan Blaney just walked away from the same crash that killed Dale Earnhardt. Claims that this car is more unsafe than any incarnation of the Gen 4 is just bull****.

If I am wrong, I am wrong but that wreck looked worse than anything I have seen since Rusty in 1993 or Davey in 1992 and Rusty got damn lucky in that wreck and Davey would have definitely missed a few weeks with the current safety protocols.

Let’s wait for telemetry data.
 
To call a spade a spade:



Kyle’s slide scrubbed off A LOT of speed. It’s bull**** to claim that this is anywhere close to what Preece just experienced.

This fanbase is so prone to hysteria that it’s embarrassing.
 
The Nature Boy said:
To call a spade a spade:



Kyle’s slide scrubbed off A LOT of speed. It’s also bull**** to claim that this is anywhere close to what Preece just experienced.
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Kyle is also younger than Preece in that video and VERY well could've had a concussion and it wouldn't be discovered in that era.
 
Preece did make it out of his car, but you could tell he was feeling the brunt of that wreck. He stood there but didn’t walk from it, made head holding gestures and they got him onto a stretcher. Prayers that his examination at the hospital is clear and he returns home to his family soon.
 
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Speedbowl14 said:
Kyle is also younger than Preece in that video and VERY well could've had a concussion and it wouldn't be discovered in that era.
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Exactly. Transporting someone to the hospital could just mean doing additional concussion testing, which would not have happened after Sadler’s wreck in 2003, Newman’s early 2000s flips, Rusty in 1993, or Davey in 1992. NASCAR is taking more precautions nowadays but our hysteria prone fanbase sees additional protocols as “OMG THIS CAR IS UNSAFE.”

It’s ****** exhausting.

I would also bet my life savings that Rusty was concussed in 1993.

If Preece has a serious injury, NASCAR should address the safety lapses that led to it but I will also wait for more data before jumping to conclusions.
 
Anyway, they need to PAVE that area of the backstretch runoff. So ****** what if it's an "eyesore" for the 24 hour race.
 
The Nature Boy said:
To call a spade a spade:



Kyle’s slide scrubbed off A LOT of speed. It’s bull**** to claim that this is anywhere close to what Preece just experienced.

This fanbase is so prone to hysteria that it’s embarrassing.
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Kyle was turned sideways just as quickly as Preece was. Speed was scrubbed and he flipped 5 times instead of 12.

Drivers were very vocal about the safety last year, specifically stating that while certain big impacts remained safe (like the Blaney impact you mention) other impacts that have been generally safe were now injuring drivers. Considering the outcry of safety last year, it's absolutely worth considering and discussing whether there kind of flips are a cause for concern in a race car that has injured drivers at an alarming rate.

If you want to call *THAT* logic hysteria (which is just absurd) then I'm happy to call these takes dismissive.

At the end of the day, this is a car that has injured MULTIPLE drivers during its tenure. To not question the car's ability to safely protect the driver in a blowover flip wreck, a wreck that has historically been safe, in a car that has injured drivers is a dangerous stance to take

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jaqua19 said:
Kyle Busch blew over immediately, he was sideways just as quick and was probably going faster. The difference was that Kyle flipped 7 times opposed to 12, due to sliding on his roof for a few.

Forgive me, but I don't think 5 flips is the difference between Kyle hopping out, and Kyle being hospitalized.

It was a terrifying wreck. Not a wreck that would have been a red flag for safety.

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Yes but when Kyle went over he didn’t start Barrel rolling immediately. Preece instantly went into a high speed barrel roll after blowing over.
 
The Nature Boy said:
Exactly. Transporting someone to the hospital could just mean doing additional concussion testing, which would not have happened after Sadler’s wreck in 2003, Newman’s early 2000s flips, Rusty in 1993, or Davey in 1992. NASCAR is taking more precautions nowadays but our hysteria prone fanbase sees additional protocols as “OMG THIS CAR IS UNSAFE.”

It’s ****** exhausting.

I would also bet my life savings that Rusty was concussed in 1993.

If Preece has a serious injury, NASCAR should address the safety lapses that led to it but I will also wait for more data before jumping to conclusions.
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You know, shaming your fellow fans for being "hysterical" and "embarrassing" is really classless stuff, you're better than this.


I'm sure Preece is fine, but with a racecar that has already injured drivers, being so hell bent on the questioning of safety ain't it. This is about driver safety.

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I always thought Kyle Busch's flip in 2007 went under the radar. I'd put that wreck up there as far as the more violent crashes in NASCAR history. Preece's was definitely worse though. It was basically Elliott Sadler in 2003.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
Anyway, they need to PAVE that area of the backstretch runoff. So ****** what if it's an "eyesore" for the 24 hour race.
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It wouldn’t just be that, it’s a physical deterrent to prevent abuse of track limits there. I get where you’re coming from though. I’d say maybe turf, but even Buescher had a bizarre flip when he caught something in Charlotte’s turf last year.
 
TheJester said:
Yes but when Kyle went over he didn’t start Barrel rolling immediately. Preece instantly went into a high speed barrel roll after blowing over.
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Yes, I did reference this when I differentiated 12v7.

What I'm arguing against is the notion that in a safe cup car, a series of faster 10+ barrel rolls is significantly more dangerous than 5-7 *standard* barrel rolls.

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jaqua19 said:
Drivers were very vocal about the safety last year, specifically stating that while certain big impacts remained safe (like the Blaney impact you mention) other impacts that have been generally safe were now injuring drivers. Considering the outcry of safety last year, it's absolutely worth considering and discussing whether there kind of flips are a cause for concern in a race car that has injured drivers at an alarming rate.
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And NASCAR addressed that by adding additional crush zones. The Gen 7 WAS a step back from the Gen 6 in safety and that is inexcusable. NASCAR is at least committed to addressing the issue.

But we don’t know why Preece was taken to the hospital. If it was for additional concussion testing then yes, a lot more drivers would have had the same happen to them in the past. Let’s not use additional protocols as “evidence” of an unsafe car.

We have no evidence that the Gen 7 is really producing more concussions than other generations except maybe the late Gen 6. Multiple drivers have admitted to racing with concussions in the past. But since NASCAR is testing and making drivers sit out, people are jumping to “THIS CAR IS UNSAFE.”

I guess certain people would be happy if NASCAR stopped testing for concussions because the car would appear safe.
 
JJ_14 said:
I always thought Kyle Busch's flip in 2007 went under the radar. I'd put that wreck up there as far as the more violent crashes in NASCAR history. Preece's was definitely worse though. It was basically Elliott Sadler in 2003.
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Exactly on both accounts. Sadler's was more violent, got more air, was on pavement and he "only" flipped 5 times because he was flipping UP banking. And he was also generally fine.

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jaqua19 said:
You know, shaming your fellow fans for being "hysterical" and "embarrassing" is really classless stuff, you're better than this.
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And you’re better than this. I hate hysteria, anyone who knows my posts on this forum knows this about me. I prefer to wait for data and information before jumping to conclusions, especially some of the extreme ones that you are here.
 
All this talk about the Next Gen car. Did none of y’all see Blaine Perkins flip at Talladega this year in Xfinity? Which is essentially a COT chassis with composite body. That car launched and barrel rolled 10 times on pavement. He was in the race last night. A testament to safety.

Racing is dangerous. No matter what platform we run.
 
The Nature Boy said:
And NASCAR addressed that by adding additional crush zones. The Gen 7 WAS a step back from the Gen 6 in safety and that is inexcusable. NASCAR is at least committed to addressing the issue.

But we don’t know why Preece was taken to the hospital. If it was for additional concussion testing then yes, a lot more drivers would have had the same happen to them in the past. Let’s not use additional protocols as “evidence” of an unsafe car.

We have no evidence that the Gen 7 is really producing more concussions than other generations except maybe the late Gen 6. Multiple drivers have admitted to racing with concussions in the past. But since NASCAR is testing and making drivers sit out, people are jumping to “THIS CAR IS UNSAFE.”

I guess certain people would be happy if NASCAR stopped testing for concussions because the car would appear safe.
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"I guess certain people would be happy if NASCAR stopped testing for concussions because the car would appear safe"

Well now you're just arguing in bad taste lol



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jaqua19 said:
"I guess certain people would be happy if NASCAR stopped testing for concussions because the car would appear safe"

Well now you're just arguing in bad taste lol



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I think we have different approaches. We both want a safe car and NASCAR needs to make changes to stop this from happening again.
 
The Nature Boy said:
And you’re better than this. I hate hysteria, anyone who knows my posts on this forum knows this about me. I prefer to wait for data and information before jumping to conclusions, especially some of the extreme ones that you are here.
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I'm sorry. Better than what? You can hate hysteria all you want, that's your right and that's fine. But that's your problem, not mine. Yours my friend. You do not get decide what is and isn't hysteria based on your own "hate" reaction to reactions you don't approve of or agree with. You don't have respond or address my reactions, but if you feel the need to, I'd appreciate it if you did so with a less shamy and name cally attitude. Otherwise, it seems we're on the same page.

No one wants to see drivers get hurt.

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jaqua19 said:
I'm sorry. Better than what? You can hate hysteria all you want, that's your right and that's fine. But that's your problem, not mine. Yours my friend. You do not get decide what is and isn't hysteria based on your own "hate" reaction to reactions you don't approve of or agree with. You don't have respond or address my reactions, but if you feel the need to, I'd appreciate it if you did so with a less shamy and name cally attitude.

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You’re better than jumping to harsh conclusions with limited to no data pointing in that direction.

A guy went to the hospital for routine tests (something that wouldn’t have happened even 10 years ago) and you IMMEDIATELY jumped to “this car is more unsafe than the latter era Gen 4.”

Further, those routine tests weren’t done in the era of the crashes that you kept comparing this too, but you still used the enhanced protocols to bolster your “this car is unsafe” message. There is no reality where this car is more unsafe than ANY incarnation of the Gen 4. I have already said it was a step back from the Gen 6 (and NASCAR is working to address that).

I’ll back off on calling you hysterical but I won’t back off on disagreeing with your conclusion and approach to getting there.
 
The Nature Boy said:
You’re better than jumping to harsh conclusions with limited to no data pointing in that direction.

A guy went to the hospital for routine tests (something that wouldn’t have happened even 10 years ago) and you IMMEDIATELY jumped to “this car is more unsafe than the latter era Gen 4.”

Further, those routine tests weren’t done in the era of the crashes that you kept comparing this too, but you still used the enhanced protocols to bolster your “this car is unsafe” message. There is no reality where this car is more unsafe than ANY incarnation of the Gen 4. I have already said it was a step back from the Gen 6 (and NASCAR is working to address that).

I’ll back off on calling you hysterical but I won’t back off on disagreeing with your conclusion and approach to getting there.
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Perfect. Then I'll agree to disagree, and thank you for backing off.

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This is cold
IMG_7185.jpeg
 
jaqua19 said:
This was less violent than Ricky Rudd in 1984, similar to Rusty at Daytona in 1993, DW in 1991 Sadler in 03, Kyle Busch in 07.

I just kind of don't want to hear it. A wreck like that wasn't sending a driver to a hospital 6-12 years ago.

All last year we have drivers expressing concerns regarding safety and taking a step backwards. Concussions from minor wrecks.

When was the last time a driver flipped in a barrell roll and WASNT interviewed prior to end of coverage and ended up in the hospital.

I'm not taking anything away from the violence of that crash. But drivers have walked away from crashes like that without requiring further medical care for at least a decade.


There's no reason, other than an unsafe car that has regressed, Preece should be hospitalized.

The racing product is declining, and safety is apparently too.

Jesus

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You need to stop making uninformed starements like this, its 100% not true, not by a long shot.
 
jaqua19 said:
Elliott Sadler flipped on pavement and was sideways at a higher rate of speed than Preece was here. Chris Bell in the Trucks a handful of years as well..similar flips. Even more air.

Sorry. I don't buy "this wreck was an exception".

If this wreck happened exactly as is in the late gen 4, COT, or gen 6, the driver is just fine and isn't transported to a local hospital.

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Where are you coing up with this stuff? Every wreck has different results and its own set of problems. He probably had to go get a truckload of dirt cleaned out of his lungs,eyes,nose etc, Nothing life threatening.
 
Where can I get a pair of glasses that let me look a TV footage and see all the factors involved in a car wreck? Air flow, vehicle speed, drag, friction, G-forces, driver conditioning, etc. I'd like to compare wrecks like others are able to do by just looking at the Tube, without needing in-car sensor data or other expensive analytical tools. Do they hook to my phone to show all the measurements? Is there an app for that?

I looked in the back of my comic but I don't see any. These X-ray Specs look kinda cool though! Maybe Mom will buy them for me? Mmmh, Mom...
 
Yeah, let's argue over the safety of the cars instead of the style of racing that forces drivers to run in a huge pack, unable to get away from each other, until the inevitable human error.
 
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