Cup RACE thread --- Fontana

jaqua19 said:
Absolute disgrace. Just an utter disgrace.

What an insult to Tony Stewart and Jimmie Johnson.

Two drivers (one an ACTUAL GOAT) who

Kicked KYLES ASS for 10 years. Best.of his time my ass.

What an agenda driven joke. Kyle is 3rd best of.his time

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How many truck and nationwide wins does JJ have ?
 
jaqua19 said:
Why? He won is 7th after Kyle's first.

He was only in cup 3 years prior to Kyle. If by "time" they mean 2017-2019, when the other good drivers retired, sure.

Kyle's great, but head to head, in equal cars, prime Stewart and prime JJ take him 7/10 times

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Oh you...and those pesky facts. I mean, after all DW is salivating over Kryle. That's all I need to get my mind right that he is the GOAT. One more win in the minor leagues and he'll officially pass the King. He's the greatest ever.
 
Is Kyle’s 200 on the same level as Richard Petty’s 200? No. But as for Petty’s 200, bear in mind many of them were against far inferior competition (more so than Kyle running in Xfin and Trucks), and also that Petty would probably have a lot fewer wins and a couple less championships had David Pearson not raced a part-time schedule for most of his career.
 
jaqua19 said:
Why? He won is 7th after Kyle's first.

He was only in cup 3 years prior to Kyle. If by "time" they mean 2017-2019, when the other good drivers retired, sure.

Kyle's great, but head to head, in equal cars, prime Stewart and prime JJ take him 7/10 times

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Prime JJ and prime Stewart aren't out there to take anything :lol2: A Sabertooth tiger might whip a poodle ......... but we will never know
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Kyle was sitting in his cup car watching Johnson winning championships.
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And JJ can't touch 200 in the big three and 2 Bristol sweeps ! Nobody can touch that, regardless of the dance and spin, they just can't. If it weren't for Kyle, I would have never seen JJ drive a car
 
Johnny G said:
Lol did you really say that.

Jimmie was too busy winning 7 Cup titles and multiple Daytona 500s to be running the friday night truck races with the nobodys
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I did ! I enjoyed every race Kyle ran, I wouldn't pay a dime to see JJ race. It matters not who agrees with me, they cannot take the years of joy and entertainment away. The Bristol sweeps were my favorites of them all. Kyle Busch brought me back to NASCAR, he is why I watch and buy tickets
 
ToyYoda said:
Is Kyle’s 200 on the same level as Richard Petty’s 200? No. But as for Petty’s 200, bear in mind many of them were against far inferior competition (more so than Kyle running in Xfin and Trucks), and also that Petty would probably have a lot fewer wins and a couple less championships had David Pearson not raced a part-time schedule for most of his career.
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Also keep in mind that Petty raced against anyone who showed up, and at the time they happened to be the best competition offered. That was the best of the best. He cant control who decided not to race.

The difference is Kyle voluntarily chose to race against lesser talent on Friday and Saturday driving for what amounted to be a Cup team.

I dont think anyone can deny Busch’s talent and work ethic to get this far, but the stat lines are incomparable for a multitude of variables. The media hype surrounding it is irresponsible & reeks of desperation in searching for a story.
 
kyle18fan said:
I did ! I enjoyed every race Kyle ran, I wouldn't pay a dime to see JJ race. It matters not who agrees with me, they cannot take the years of joy and entertainment away. The Bristol sweeps were my favorites of them all. Kyle Busch brought me back to NASCAR, he is why I watch and buy tickets
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That's all good and well, but your confirmation bias is being vocalized, and that Kyle Busch has had a more successful career. Objectively that simply isn't true

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jaqua19 said:
He has 7 cup titles

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Yep, three names stand alone at the top of that mountain. Kyle is only 6 1/2 Cup titles behind them. The best win against the best, which he does. But most of his wins have come in the minor leagues.
 
jaqua19 said:
That's all good and well, but your confirmation bias is being vocalized, and that Kyle Busch has had a more successful career. Objectively that simply isn't true

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Depends on how you judge success, the cup series is only one series, I enjoy all three and appreciate a driver that wins in all of em. I watch to see Kyle race
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Also keep in mind that Petty raced against anyone who showed up, and at the time they happened to be the best competition offered. That was the best of the best. He cant control who decided not to race.

The difference is Kyle voluntarily chose to race against lesser talent on Friday and Saturday driving for what amounted to be a Cup team.

I dont think anyone can deny Busch’s talent and work ethic to get this far, but the stat lines are incomparable for a multitude of variables. The media hype surrounding it is irresponsible & reeks of desperation in searching for a story.
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Oh I agree. The only point I was making is that we shouldn’t pretend that Petty’s 200 was like winning 200 Cup races with the competition like it is today. Also, in a lot of the years Petty was doing much of his winning, they ran 50-60 Cup races in a season, so there was about as much of an opportunity to rack up wins then as there would be today running all three series’.
 
kyle18fan said:
Depends on how you judge success, the cup series is only one series, I enjoy all three and appreciate a driver that wins in all of em. I watch to see Kyle race
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While Kyle was focusing so much time in the then Nationwide series, and won his championship in 2009, Jimmie Johnson already had 4 Cup championships. By the time Kyle won his Cup championship in 2015, Jimmie had 6 and won his 7th the following season.

I believe this is where people who hold championships in higher regard than winning races get miffed when Kyle is labled “the best driver of his time”. It’s simply incorrect.
 
Look, I hate to be saying this every time Kyle went a damn race, cuz this really isn't about Kyle. this is about the way NASCAR media has marketed in the last 2 years. And it sucks, because I enjoy Kyle Busch as a driver, especially as a personality, but I don't enjoy how his accomplishments are handled.

I will beat this drum until the skins break. I spent my life as a Ricky Rudd fan and a Carl Edwards fan. My younger more anxious self hated Jimmie Johnson, I could not stand him, or the fact that he was better than everyone. Buy championship five however, I came around and was neutral.

After all of this, his battle to the wire with Brad keselowski made me feel like he really wasn't done winning championships. Then, 2013 happens, as one of the most dominant seasons in recent year. none of us have seen that kind of domination over those nine years, nothing today comes close to that. And as recently as 2015, ironically Kyle's first championship, this was still fresh in people's mind. the 2015 fall Texas race comes to mind specifically, we are Brad keselowski totally dominated that race. No one could stay with him for 2 laps. Lead over 300 laps. 48 runs 4th all day, yet somehow beats out Brad. I remember the comments right here on this board

"48 is still the best driver in NASCAR"

"If it were anyone else, Brad wins that race" That includes your 2015 series champ.

Then 2016 happens where the media was pushing for a Toyota final, and an out of prime JJ whips them all those last 10 races. In fact, at Martinsville, you could even hear KB crumbling on the radio, the fear of the 48 winning.

Kyle has had a great career. But this is my fustration. Johnson won all 7 of his titles against Kyle Busch, Kyle Busch was simply another victim of a 7 time champion's historic run of dominance.

Ladies and gentleman, THAT is your true modern day GOAT, and he was never given THIS kind of GOAT media push Kyle is getting. It seems like NASCAR media is burying that history for the sake of pushing this Kyle Busch narrative and I find that to be disrespectful, and marginalizes the accomplishments of the driver who taught me respect "great" athletes.... Jeter, Johnson, (not so Much Brady, Boston here), LeBron, etc.

No one has a case for GOAT when a driver won 7 titles against you. No one.

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kyle18fan said:
And every one put me in a comatose state, that is how badly that dude bores me. The weekend sweeps are what makes me feel alive. Does JJ still race ?
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He has 7 titles, and beat and out won Kyle at the highest level for each of them

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ChexOrWrex said:
While Kyle was focusing so much time in the then Nationwide series, and won his championship in 2009, Jimmie Johnson already had 4 Cup championships. By the time Kyle won his Cup championship in 2015, Jimmie had 6 and won his 7th the following season.

I believe this is where people who hold championships in higher regard than winning races get miffed when Kyle is labled “the best driver of his time”. It’s simply incorrect.
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But nobody can touch Kyle's record in the big three, they just can't. Championships seem rather boring these days as far as I am concerned. I can't tell you how much I have enjoyed watching Kyle over the years. I can't tell you how much JJ has bored me over the years. Kyle's record stands alone, it can't be diminished and will most likely never be repeated.
 
jaqua19 said:
He has 7 titles, and beat and out won Kyle at the highest level for each of them

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You aren't telling me anything that I don't know ! I have enjoyed every race Kyle competed in, none of you are going to change that .. JJ sure as hell isn't going to change that. JJ was watching when Kyle swept Bristol TWICE .. JJ ain't touching that
 
kyle18fan said:
But nobody can touch Kyle's record in the big three, they just can't. Championships seem rather boring these days as far as I am concerned. I can't tell you how much I have enjoyed watching Kyle over the years. I can't tell you how much JJ has bored me over the years. Kyle's record stands alone, it can't be diminished and will most likely never be repeated.
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Kyle’s record wont ever be broken due to new rules about cup drivers racing in lower series.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Kyle’s record wont ever be broken due to new rules about cup drivers racing in lower series.
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It wouldn't be broken anyway, he doubled the old Nationwide record already. The record stands alone, regardless of what anyone says. I recall DW saying that Kyle would never be the same after his injury, he would be " afraid" .......... and Kyle gave us another Bristol sweep :lol2:
Yep, another one
 
At the end of the day, championships are how most view GOATs of sports/motorsports. Bobby Allison is one of the best ever but since since he only had one title, you hear more about Earnhardt, Gordon, Waltrip, Petty, Pearson, etc. cause they won more championships. How can people call Kyle the GOAT when he only has one title. Yes he has won tons and tons of races, but I rather have 3 or 4 championships and 30-40 wins then 50 plus wins and one championship
 
kyle18fan said:
You aren't telling me anything that I don't know ! I have enjoyed every race Kyle competed in, none of you are going to change that .. JJ sure as hell isn't going to change that. JJ was watching when Kyle swept Bristol TWICE .. JJ ain't touching that
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And Kyle ain't touching 5 strait cup titles, and is a bigger accomplishment.

The problem here is that you are passing off your incredibly biased opinion as cold objective fact. It's abnormal. This is pointless.

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Get That 88 Up There !! said:
At the end of the day, championships are how most view GOATs of sports/motorsports. Bobby Allison is one of the best ever but since since he only had one title, you hear more about Earnhardt, Gordon, Waltrip, Petty, Pearson, etc. cause they won more championships. How can people call Kyle the GOAT when he only has one title. Yes he has won tons and tons of races, but I rather have 3 or 4 championships and 30-40 wins then 50 plus wins and one championship
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So Kyle Busch is the Aaron Rodgers of NASCAR, essentially.
 
Kyle Busch said today, Jimmie should be the goat "right?"

And Alex Bowman expressed the same fustration in terms of undermining Jimmie's success. Yikes

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jaqua19 said:
And Kyle ain't touching 5 strait cup titles, and is a bigger accomplishment.

The problem here is that you are passing off your incredibly biased opinion as cold objective fact. It's abnormal. This is pointless.

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Kyle's record is a fact and it stands alone. No matter how you spin it, Kyle's record is what it is. I enjoyed every minute of it and so did many others. No need to reply, I am not changing my opinion on the matter and neither are you. I enjoy what I enjoy, I couldn't care less who likes that or agrees with it.
 
kyle18fan said:
Kyle's record is a fact and it stands alone. No matter how you spin it, Kyle's record is what it is. I enjoyed every minute of it and so did many others. No need to reply, I am not changing my opinion on the matter and neither are you. I enjoy what I enjoy, I couldn't care less who likes that or agrees with it.
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So does 5 strait. Goodnight

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kyle18fan said:
2 time Bristol sweep fan says goodnight to you :salute:
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Hmmm....two Cup wins at Bristol and four minor league wins at Bristol, all on the same two weekends vs FIVE titles in a row over 180 races, and add two more titles to that total....now let me see which is the most impressive......hehehehehe
 
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