Cup RACE thread ---- Kansas

[ChexOrWrex]

Kansas, and I believe either Dega I or Daytona II would add to that possibility. I was also critical of Denny's move on Matt in Daytona I.

The quicker its realized that there are 0 teammates when the white flag flies, the better. I cant tell you how many times Gordon had the faster car but raced Johnson like a teammate in the final laps & lost. These boys arent out here to make friends, they are out here to win. IF Kyle is at all pissed at Carl, I suggest he race harder than Carl. Plain & simple - refuse to lose.

 

[Michfan]

Honestly, I think that is perception. Ever since he signed with JGR, I have watched him closely. I think he is Newman-like without the neck. I like it. He has the appearance of a nice guy, but drives like a hardass IMO. He drove Kyle hard all day long in Kansas, and Richmond....I have my theory.

Yeah, I've watched him a little closer than you. If he doesn't have a top flight car he's pretty damn passive.

 

[Michfan]

He doesn't seem to wheel it unless he has a car capable of winning.

In good equipment, he had a 9 win season, and competed for two titles in his first 7 seasons, both of which were dominant seasons.
He's a great driver but sometimes as of late, he seems content to not push the car as hard as he can if it's not a top 5 machine.

I talked about this with a friend, given his (seemingly) neurotic nature, Carl has always thrived when he had a good relationship with his CC. Since Carl focuses on the idealized version of himself, it takes a while him to build a solid relationship with a crew chief. Carl needs atleast two seasons with the same crew chief, it's why he ran decent with Robbie Reiser in a free falling roush team. And why he was arguably better than anyone not named Johnson or Stewart when he was with Bob Osbourne, who, in my opinion knew Carl better than any other CC.

They had the perfect banter and he knew how to poke at and appeal to Carl's brattier, arrogant side

Yeah, I definitely agree. I hope he and Dave can stay together for a while. Carl was talking about how they were like brothers earlier this year. I think he could develop a relationship with him similar to the one he had with Bob. I hope Kansas was a sign that the team is heading back to the top 5 team they were early this year.

 

[jaqua19]

Honestly, I think that is perception. Ever since he signed with JGR, I have watched him closely. I think he is Newman-like without the neck. I like it. He has the appearance of a nice guy, but drives like a hardass IMO. He drove Kyle hard all day long in Kansas, and Richmond....I have my theory.

That's why I said neurotic, and the "idealized self" (Karen Horney may be known for feminist psychology but her theory on neurotic conflict is on point). I think when Carl doesnt have a car capable of competing, hes "nice guy", always willing to move.. but when he's competitive, the real Carl comes out, he's more agressive. To your point, Kansas and Richmond he had winning cars.

As for your Richmond theory, I took it as Carl moving him out of the way. Pretty sure he owned it too

 

[jaqua19]

Yeah, I definitely agree. I hope he and Dave can stay together for a while. Carl was talking about how they were like brothers earlier this year. I think he could develop a relationship with him similar to the one he had with Bob. I hope Kansas was a sign that the team is heading back to the top 5 team they were early this year.

Me too. i'll be objective though. I think it means Carl as a driver may not be the easiest to work with, just because as a CC, you may not really know exactly who you are dealing with for a little while.

Carl is ALMOST driven by an "alpha male" kind of personality, but I think he really makes a conscious effort to conceal that likely out of guilt and a bit of insecurity in the sense that he does care about his image, now. likely due to the trouble it's gotten him in the past, and how it blew up with Brad (they had a personal relationship before either of them were in cup).

Some people call him fake, but he isn't fake. it's more of a neurotic conflict between the self and the idealized self, and the change in his driving seems to reflect this sometimes.

But I'll chill with the psychoanalysis. I love my field, it's hard to keep it out of things I'm passionate about

Whoops

 

[aunty dive]

Sigmund ... is that you?

 

[Revman]

Yeah, I've watched him a little closer than you. If he doesn't have a top flight car he's pretty damn passive.

Fair point.

 

[Revman]

Sigmund ... is that you?

He'd have a field day with drivers.

 

[Revman]

That's why I said neurotic, and the "idealized self" (Karen Horney may be known for feminist psychology but her theory on neurotic conflict is on point). I think when Carl doesnt have a car capable of competing, hes "nice guy", always willing to move.. but when he's competitive, the real Carl comes out, he's more agressive. To your point, Kansas and Richmond he had winning cars.

As for your Richmond theory, I took it as Carl moving him out of the way. Pretty sure he owned it too

I think Richmond was more about Kyle Busch's perception of "teammate" than Carl's speed. Think Coach agrees. The potential exists for the score to be evened when the stakes are much higher. I do believe that "payback" stuff is overblown, but in this instance, I have to believe it is coming.

 

[Revman]

Yeah, I definitely agree. I hope he and Dave can stay together for a while. Carl was talking about how they were like brothers earlier this year. I think he could develop a relationship with him similar to the one he had with Bob. I hope Kansas was a sign that the team is heading back to the top 5 team they were early this year.

I think that Dave is great with set up off the truck. I wonder about in race adjustments. I cannot remember a time when Kyle actually got better in race with Dave. Now, was this Dave, Kyle, or the communication between the two? Who knows, but Carl talked about an inability to finish this year. This is reason for concern IMO.

 

[Revman]

The quicker its realized that there are 0 teammates when the white flag flies, the better. I cant tell you how many times Gordon had the faster car but raced Johnson like a teammate in the final laps & lost. These boys arent out here to make friends, they are out here to win. IF Kyle is at all pissed at Carl, I suggest he race harder than Carl. Plain & simple - refuse to lose.

Not sure I agree with the 0 teammate thing. I think Kyle is pissed at Carl, and I think that this will play out in a very interesting way. Should be fascinating to see what the teamwork looks like in Dega. Toyota has a small car count, and cannot afford to have drivers break rank.

 

[Michfan]

I think that Dave is great with set up off the truck. I wonder about in race adjustments. I cannot remember a time when Kyle actually got better in race with Dave. Now, was this Dave, Kyle, or the communication between the two? Who knows, but Carl talked about an inability to finish this year. This is reason for concern IMO.

Good point. Carl has had the best qualifying performance of his career, but keeping up throughout the race has been a problem.

 

[Michfan]

I think Richmond was more about Kyle Busch's perception of "teammate" than Carl's speed. Think Coach agrees. The potential exists for the score to be evened when the stakes are much higher. I do believe that "payback" stuff is overblown, but in this instance, I have to believe it is coming.

The thing is I could see Kyle overreacting in his payback, which then would likely result in a comeback of 2010 Carl and Carl responding with a payback. I'd prefer not to see that happen.

 

[Revman]

The thing is I could see Kyle overreacting in his payback, which then would likely result in a comeback of 2010 Carl and Carl responding with a payback. I'd prefer not to see that happen.

The stage is set. I'd prefer to see Carl push Kyle to the win Sunday (everybody makes friends), and we go into the Round of 8 as a solid team. I think Carl knows where Coach is on the 2010 edition...and I'm pretty sure that Coach has addressed this with Kyle. Interesting stuff.