Cup RACE thread --- Open and All-Star

Revman said:
Shouldn't you be comparing the first 20 years of Chevy's involvement v. Toyota's? .....and if you did.....the sport would be so archaic, would it even mean anything? ....and how champions are decided? Can you find anything on your X feed or anywhere else that deems Toyota a failure in NASCAR? Go to work.
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The numbers speak for themselves. Losers. Oh well somebody has to be on the bottom.
 
StandOnIt said:
You obviously saw the driver intros for the all star race. Jr kin's ears are still ringing for all the BOOOs. lol.
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....and there is your metric for success. NASCAR fans. Good luck with that.
 
Revman said:
Siri....What is the definition of gaslighting?
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noun​

  1. the practice of deceiving people through the repetition of a constructed false narrative:

See every post by the poster Revman since Kyle Busch went to RCR on racing-forums.com/NASCARchat
 
CaptainHiTop said:

noun​

  1. the practice of deceiving people through the repetition of a constructed false narrative:

See every post by the poster Revman since Kyle Busch went to RCR on racing-forums.com/NASCARchat
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Rev would be gaslighting, if he tried to pretend he never liked Kyle, what he’s doing isn’t gaslighting at all.
 
I don't have a problem with the fines or NASCAR using the fight in promotional content.

I do have a problem with the suspensions and with the fact that they didn't penalize Kyle Busch at all after suspending Chase Elliott last year. I think Chase Elliott's incident was much more egregious and a malignant foul that should result in suspension and disqualification from the playoffs, but I also think intentional wrecking needs to be addressed across the board. There's way too much of it going on, especially in the Crashman Truck Series.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I don't have a problem with the fines or NASCAR using the fight in promotional content.

I do have a problem with the suspensions and with the fact that they didn't penalize Kyle Busch at all after suspending Chase Elliott last year. I think Chase Elliott's incident was much more egregious and a malignant foul that should result in suspension and disqualification from the playoffs, but I also think intentional wrecking needs to be addressed across the board. There's way too much of it going on, especially in the Crashman Truck Series.
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Nascar doesn't use black and white thinking. Elliotts deal was done at a much higher speed with potential injury a much higher factor compared to a wreck at a small track at much lower speeds. It was a typical short track B.S. that short track fans love on Stenhouse. Hocevar in the trucks was penalized immediately for his deliberate wrecking.
 
StandOnIt said:
Nascar doesn't use black and white thinking. Elliotts deal was done at a much higher speed with potential injury a much higher factor compared to a wreck at a small track at much lower speeds.
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I said as much. As usual, you just don't read before replying.

AndyMarquisLive said:
I think Chase Elliott's incident was much more egregious and a malignant foul that should result in suspension
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My problem here is that there was no penalty, AT ALL, for Kyle Busch for what was very clearly an intentional action. I'm not saying he should be suspended, and I don't even know how you do a points penalty for a non-points event, but I do think he should've faced some penalty for his involvement.



THE only reason Chase Elliott got suspended was because NASCAR put themselves in a box when they suspended Bubba Wallace for the hook, and not the totality of the incident. There was no way for them to NOT suspend Chase Elliott.

But intentional wrecking needs to be dealt with in a very firm manner. There's no room for this ****.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
But intentional wrecking needs to be dealt with in a very firm manner. There's no room for this ****.
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Why would NASCAR do that? They love the drama, they love the fights, they love the rivalries it creates.

Handing out severe suspensions/fines, like they are sooooo appalled by this stuff, is an insult to everyone's intelligence.
 
2 Sweet said:
Why would NASCAR do that? They love the drama, they love the fights, they love the rivalries it creates.

Handing out severe suspensions/fines, like they are sooooo appalled by this stuff, is an insult to everyone's intelligence.
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I would argue that NASCAR was more entertaining when they were policing the racing a little more. And now, with SMT data, it's easier to determine intent.

Way too many of these kids come up through the ranks, way too quickly BTW, and are VERY undisciplined. They just crash people because they can. They'd rather drive through someone than race for position.

As for this incident, Kyle Busch is who Kyle Busch is. He's been this way for 20 years. He's been wrecking himself out and then blaming someone else and wrecking them on purpose for 20 years. And, with exception of the time he wrecked Hornaday under caution in a Truck race, NASCAR turns a blind eye to his behavior.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I said as much. As usual, you just don't read before replying.



My problem here is that there was no penalty, AT ALL, for Kyle Busch for what was very clearly an intentional action. I'm not saying he should be suspended, and I don't even know how you do a points penalty for a non-points event, but I do think he should've faced some penalty for his involvement.



THE only reason Chase Elliott got suspended was because NASCAR put themselves in a box when they suspended Bubba Wallace for the hook, and not the totality of the incident. There was no way for them to NOT suspend Chase Elliott.

But intentional wrecking needs to be dealt with in a very firm manner. There's no room for this ****.
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I think penalizing for on-track contact with another car is opening a can of worms. Kyle dumping Stenhouse was clearly intentional; but what if contact is made where it is intentional but isn't so obvious? Where do you draw the line? Who makes the decision? Are the penalties immediate or post-race? This is stock car racing not basketball.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I said as much. As usual, you just don't read before replying.



My problem here is that there was no penalty, AT ALL, for Kyle Busch for what was very clearly an intentional action. I'm not saying he should be suspended, and I don't even know how you do a points penalty for a non-points event, but I do think he should've faced some penalty for his involvement.



THE only reason Chase Elliott got suspended was because NASCAR put themselves in a box when they suspended Bubba Wallace for the hook, and not the totality of the incident. There was no way for them to NOT suspend Chase Elliott.

But intentional wrecking needs to be dealt with in a very firm manner. There's no room for this ****.
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Intentional wrecking has been a part of NASCAR since they were running on the beach at Daytona. The pussification of all sports lately is what there is no room for.
 
Daytripper said:
The pussification of all sports lately is what there is no room for.
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Lately?

NASCAR does less to police the racing on track now than they did 20+ years ago. The ONLY reason suspending drivers for hooking someone became a thing was because NASCAR caved to the Twitter mob after Bubba Wallace wrecked Kyle Larson, and there was no way out of it when Chase Elliott did the same thing to Denny Hamlin.

They disqualified Ricky Rudd for turning Davey Allison at Sonoma back before "NASCAR died when Dale died."
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Lately?

NASCAR does less to police the racing on track now than they did 20+ years ago. The ONLY reason suspending drivers for hooking someone became a thing was because NASCAR caved to the Twitter mob after Bubba Wallace wrecked Kyle Larson, and there was no way out of it when Chase Elliott did the same thing to Denny Hamlin.

They disqualified Ricky Rudd for turning Davey Allison at Sonoma back before "NASCAR died when Dale died."
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NASCAR has always been "it's our sandbox and we make the rules and enforce them if we feel like it, if you don't like it go somewhere else". That much certainly is not new. But if you notice I said "all" sports with my lately comment, not just NASCAR.
 
Daytripper said:
NASCAR has always been "it's our sandbox and we make the rules and enforce them if we feel like it, if you don't like it go somewhere else". That much certainly is not new. But if you notice I said "all" sports with my lately comment, not just NASCAR.
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The NFL has made moves to address player safety because new research has come to light about the devastating long-term impacts of these head injuries. Their rules also keep evolving because the speed of the game has changed, especially with these hybrid quarterbacks. The game has gotten faster, and physics tells you that means the hits are getting harder.

NASCAR's also had to take action and enhance safety because of these head injuries. And, BTW, some of us have been calling on NASCAR to do something about the malignant driving for a long time. I think I once referred to Carl Edwards hooking Brad Keselowski at St. Louis "second count of attempted murder."

Weather policies have changed because a bunch of people got struck by lightning and got killed at a NASCAR race in Pocono.

I mean, "pussification of sports" just sounds like typical "back in my day" boomer nonsense.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
The NFL has made moves to address player safety because new research has come to light about the devastating long-term impacts of these head injuries. Their rules also keep evolving because the speed of the game has changed, especially with these hybrid quarterbacks. The game has gotten faster, and physics tells you that means the hits are getting harder.

NASCAR's also had to take action and enhance safety because of these head injuries. And, BTW, some of us have been calling on NASCAR to do something about the malignant driving for a long time. I think I once referred to Carl Edwards hooking Brad Keselowski at St. Louis "second count of attempted murder."

Weather policies have changed because a bunch of people got struck by lightning and got killed at a NASCAR race in Pocono.

I mean, "pussification of sports" just sounds like typical "back in my day" boomer nonsense.
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Compared to those that don't have a clue on how things are run. Nascar generally take things on a case by case basis. They don't have a black and white rule to cover every situation. Some people will never understand that.
 
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AndyMarquisLive said:
The NFL has made moves to address player safety because new research has come to light about the devastating long-term impacts of these head injuries. Their rules also keep evolving because the speed of the game has changed, especially with these hybrid quarterbacks. The game has gotten faster, and physics tells you that means the hits are getting harder.

NASCAR's also had to take action and enhance safety because of these head injuries. And, BTW, some of us have been calling on NASCAR to do something about the malignant driving for a long time. I think I once referred to Carl Edwards hooking Brad Keselowski at St. Louis "second count of attempted murder."

Weather policies have changed because a bunch of people got struck by lightning and got killed at a NASCAR race in Pocono.

I mean, "pussification of sports" just sounds like typical "back in my day" boomer nonsense.
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Well, I'm not a boomer so strike that, baseball is where it's the worse and football pretty bad too, making better safety equipment like helmets and safer walls and stuff is fine, just play the same game. Your getting paid millions to do it, if you don't like it find another job. Maybe we should stop keeping score and give everyone participation trophy's instead of championship trophies.
 
Revman said:
How do you measure that?
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Just my opinion. I really have always thought of Kyle as the most talented stock car driver I ever saw. I think drivers like Larson and Tony Stewart are more talented at driving a wider variety of stuff but KB is the best to be at stock cars. If he could have gotten out of his own way emotionally he would still be in a quality ride and would likely have more wins/championships. Just my opinion though. No real way to measure.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I don't have a problem with the fines or NASCAR using the fight in promotional content.
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Neither do I but why do they use the fight in promotional content and hand out penalties for it at the same time? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
Daytripper said:
Intentional wrecking has been a part of NASCAR since they were running on the beach at Daytona. The pussification of all sports lately is what there is no room for.
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Every sport has a ruleset to it, that has nothing to do with "pussification".
There is a difference between hitting someone's bumper on a short track and turning them head on into the wall. Do we really want to see drivers intentionally injuring each other?
 
donthaveanickname said:
Neither do I but why do they use the fight in promotional content and hand out penalties for it at the same time? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Every sport has a ruleset to it, that has nothing to do with "pussification".
There is a difference between hitting someone's bumper on a short track and turning them head on into the wall. Do we really want to see drivers intentionally injuring each other?
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The incident being discussed was at a short track. That is the time honored place to get your revenge. It rarely is (and never should be) done at high speed tracks.
 
Chase Fan 79 said:
I will be the first to admit he has far exceeded my expectations and shown far more maturity than I thought possible and does have potential. But....love him or hate him KB might be the best pure stock car driver at least of the past generation or so. I know some will disagree because he is so unprofessional and a nightmare for some sponsors but his talent warrants a better ride. I am surprised Rick Hendrick did not make a play for him for the 48 regardless of what happened their first go round.
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Don’t confuse his frequent forays into the bush leagues to pad his win totals as meaning he is elite compared to the rest of the top drivers. Stats are impressive and I agree he would do better in better equipment, but he’s no David Pearson, Dale Earnhardt, or Jimmy Johnson.
 
Ford 222 said:
Don’t confuse his frequent forays into the bush leagues to pad his win totals as meaning he is elite compared to the rest of the top drivers. Stats are impressive and I agree he would do better in better equipment, but he’s no David Pearson, Dale Earnhardt, or Jimmy Johnson.
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KFB is 9th on the all time Cup win list.
 
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