Cup RACE thread --- Richmond

jaqua19 said:
Denny Hamlin when asked on his podcast if he jumped the start...


"....ummm... I went pretty early..in the zone... With a goofy "oops" smirk on his face.

Kinda shocked to see him actually admit to it on his podcast.



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From a strategic pov it is pretty good race craft. In the gray zone and enforcement was going to be controversial.

I had a racing buddy to pull a similar move on a restart. It was a legends car race and he knew they were in a hurry to wrap up the race in order to prevent delaying the following main event. I think he would have won anyway but he took the additional liberties to seal the deal.

The context isn't exact but I think Hamlin took enough beyond the rules while avoiding going completely over the top.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
sportsnaut.com

Denny Hamlin jumped the restart so what now and other Richmond NASCAR takeaways

He went early. Period. But here’s the deal, and as veteran racer Josh Wise pointed out in the aftermath of
sportsnaut.com sportsnaut.com

So we have a hard, firm restart zone but it’s only a guideline for the leader in the final restart?

**** me.
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Context. What about the jerk around guys who lay back. Just lay over, let them break the rules, and screw your team? I have no problem with what Denny did and how it was handled. If fans ask for too much here, you will be hearing about the final result in the parking lot an hour after the race. There is herky jerk going on everywhere.
 
Revman said:
Context. What about the jerk around guys who lay back. Just lay over, let them break the rules, and screw your team? I have no problem with what Denny did and how it was handled. If fans ask for too much here, you will be hearing about the final result in the parking lot an hour after the race. There is herky jerk going on everywhere.
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I don’t have a problem with Hamlin jumping the start. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Everyone does it. But he did jump the start, just a statement of fact.

I have a problem with NASCAR not calling it. It’s on them.
 
If they aren’t going to officiate to the box then just get rid of it. As soon as the pace car pulls off the leader has complete control and can go whenever they want between then and the S/F line.

No point in having a big ****** box painted on the track and GEICO banners plastered on the wall if it doesn’t mean anything. None of this “well, the leader deserves to go even earlier, as a treat”.
 
Denny is starting to rub me the wrong way. That's right, I've never really hated him. He's a talented driver with a strong resume, a sure-fire hall of famer.

That said, there's a difference between being the villain of the sport & simply being a jackass. I like having someone to root against. Kyle Busch was a villain, but he never said or did anything that put the integrity of the sport at risk. (aside from maybe the Hornaday incident)

Hamlin deserves a penalty. If all this controversy wasn't enough, he then goes & flaunts about it on his podcast.

He clearly jumped the start. There's no question about it.
 
Revman said:
Context. What about the jerk around guys who lay back. Just lay over, let them break the rules, and screw your team? I have no problem with what Denny did and how it was handled. If fans ask for too much here, you will be hearing about the final result in the parking lot an hour after the race. There is herky jerk going on everywhere.
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No rule on laying back, the control car can feather the throttle and match those pacing him , the RULE is going before the line which the 11 did.
 
Truex_rox said:
What’s up, bro? 😂

Martin just revealed that he is human and prone to err on occasion like everyone else. In his defense, I’m gonna pose a scenario. Put either of us in that 19 car in that scenario. You’ve lead almost all night. Caution waves with 2 to go. That’s gonna provoke some groaning from any driver in the lead, surely, but hey, it happens. Then, you start alongside your team-mate for the final restart. Ok, no biggie yet. What ensues is him jumping the start, foul on the play you would think. Same guy who just jumped the start uses you up into 1, drifting you up the track and putting you into a compromised position while he gets away with the foul. You watch as the win you busted your ass for all night slips away in the windshield in the grasp of a guy that arguably shouldn’t even be in that position… thus adversely affecting the outcome of the race.

Idk bro, I think we’ve seen drivers react worse than Truex giving his team-mate a couple bumps before ducking off into pit road. It’s kinda funny, he reacts like this hardly ever, but when he does, certain parts of the fanbase want to act like he’s totally lost the plot. Meh, I don’t see it. The only part I won’t dispute is the stuff between him and Larson; Larson was doing no differently from Truex and was trying to get the most he could out of a crazy night as well.
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This is interesting....I tried to "defend" Chase for his meltdown on Hamlin in the 600 last year that got him suspended by basically saying that I don't agree with what he did but try to understand how frustrating it must have been to drive a clean and patient race for 300+/- miles with "meh" car that was getting better and finally be coming toward the front only to get run into the wall not once but twice in less than 2 laps by a car that was overdriving their stuff and have your day ruined. What Chase did could have hurt Hamlin but I am sure he was not thinking about that in the moment.

To be clear - I know this is different because the argument can be made that it was less dangerous because it's a short-track but are we saying it's OK to "lose your mind" (as apparently Truex has admitted he did) if it's on a short-track because it's less likely people will get hurt? I think maybe that works but the problem with "losing your mind" is you are not going to be able to rationally choose when you do it because well...you lost your mind.

Again - to be clear - I do not agree with what Chase did in the 600 last season and Hamlin could have been hurt and the suspension was warranted for sure. All I was saying is imagine how frustrating that would be and tried to understand why it happened.
 
Imagine the heads imploding if Nascar did call it (starting early, self admitted) and then give it to Joey who won the championship over Denny by just a few points
 
Whiskyb said:
Imagine the heads imploding if Nascar did call it (starting early, self admitted) and then give it to Joey who won the championship over Denny by just a few points
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But there’s not a full season points championship anymore?
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I don’t have a problem with Hamlin jumping the start. 🤷🏻‍♂️ Everyone does it. But he did jump the start, just a statement of fact.

I have a problem with NASCAR not calling it. It’s on them.
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I hear you, but I like the no call for reasons other than the obvious. I don't want to see 3-4 drivers penalized at the end of races for laying back and jumping. NASCAR just like State Patrol people are there to keep order with a reasonable interpretation of the rules. I have never been pulled over for a 65 in a 60.....or even a 70 in a 60. I think technology gives us access to understanding that we have never had....and I think we, as a society, struggle with what to do with that. Do we want our sport officiated like a Kindergarten classroom? I don't think we do. Just to pre-empt the inevitable accusations of bias (which I have never denied), if Willy B. jumped the restarted by a 1/2 mile at COTA, it wouldn't been a problem for me. He deserved that win. We are taking away accolades for a Felon level pit stop away from the 11 team. If you are going to nail the 11, you are nailing the 22....and maybe the 19.
Charlie Spencer said:
Mommy said two wrongs don't make a right.
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Nail them all? Don't think so.
Spotter22 said:
No rule on laying back, the control car can feather the throttle and match those pacing him , the RULE is going before the line which the 11 did.
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Wait a minute. So, you can lay back? ....and why would the control car match those behind him....shouldn't it be the other way around? .....and feathering the throttle....What are the parameters for that in SMT? You get where I am going with this? I am not sure that this can be policed the way some want it to be policed. What I will say is this....If Hamlin went early...the start should be called off, and re-rack them. MTJ would deserve his shot at it. None of this DQ after the fact bull****.
Spotter22 said:
No rule on laying back, the control car can feather the throttle and match those pacing him , the RULE is going before the line which the 11 did.
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As you know, I have great respect for you input here. I am not trying to prove anything....I just want to learn. Talk to me about this...
dailydownforce.com

Drivers Speak Out on NASCAR Penalizing Restarts - The Daily Downforce

Last weekend, NASCAR penalized Chase Elliott and A.J. Allmendinger for laying back on restarts. It is a controversy that seems to be brought up every so often, but NASCAR truly started enforcing the rule last weekend. Some drivers spoke out about NASCAR enforcing laying back on restarts, so...
dailydownforce.com dailydownforce.com
 
Revman said:
As you know, I have great respect for you input here. I am not trying to prove anything....I just want to learn. Talk to me about this...

dailydownforce.com

Drivers Speak Out on NASCAR Penalizing Restarts - The Daily Downforce

Last weekend, NASCAR penalized Chase Elliott and A.J. Allmendinger for laying back on restarts. It is a controversy that seems to be brought up every so often, but NASCAR truly started enforcing the rule last weekend. Some drivers spoke out about NASCAR enforcing laying back on restarts, so...
dailydownforce.com dailydownforce.com
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Laying back is used to make a gap to the car in front of you. Not side by side.
 
StandOnIt said:
Laying back is used to make a gap to the car in front of you. Not side by side.
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....and how do you prevent being screwed by someone laying back? ....particularly when you earned the spot......and I am not sure you are 100% correct there.....Do you think MTJ would benefit from rolling into a start before Denny without crossing the line first? I do.
 
StandOnIt said:
Sawyer: Kinda started early....wtf. The two NBC clowns Letarte and bo bo compared it to basketball. :cuckoo:
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"...they got off pit road early, they earned that right to control the restart." Thanks genius, we're well aware that's how it works but we aren't talking about controlling the restart. Keep up.

Of course this was on the NASCAR owned Sirius channel so who's gonna ask the hard follow up question.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
"...they got off pit road early, they earned that right to control the restart." Thanks genius, we're well aware that's how it works but we aren't talking about controlling the restart. Keep up.

Of course this was on the NASCAR owned Sirius channel so who's gonna ask the hard follow up question.
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Then he says they have an official at the line. But things happen so fast and waaa we can't call time out and review it. B.S. they throw cautions all of the time for nothing.
 
No idea why they keep letting Sawyer yap when he makes less sense each time he talks. Doesn’t anyone there find it embarrassing? Guy contradicted himself about three different times since the final restart already.

The way he made it sound is that they’ll probably ding someone for it in the first stage of the Xfinity race this weekend and then never again all season afterwards.
 
StandOnIt said:
It would be much better to say we missed the call, admit the mistake, say if it happens again what the penalty will be, not say if it happened at lap 10 or 150 it would be different. They kept the door open for more of that nonsense.
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What else would you expect from NASCAR? They have always done BS like this.
 
StandOnIt said:
It would be much better to say we missed the call, admit the mistake, say if it happens again what the penalty will be, not say if it happened at lap 10 or 150 it would be different. They kept the door open for more of that nonsense.
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I am thinking the same thing but I think there is a correction and it will happen.

They should have a closed door meeting with the drivers and owners and spell out the future policy or protocols in very clear terms to prevent the temptation for any future violations
They should also inform them of what the shut up fines will be if they disclose any information from the meeting to the public (benevolent dictatorship 101)

All of this is speculation but that's what I would do to put it to rest.
 
Daytripper said:
What else would you expect from NASCAR? They have always done BS like this.
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Not only do they make or miss questionable calls but they make it worse with what they say after. Sawyer saying if they had more time to review they may have called it? How stupid. What's wrong with saying the race is under review and waiting to declare the winner? It's the same thing they do when there is a photo finish like Atlanta this year and when a caution comes out on the last lap. Yet they call how many penalties last week for cutting the esses at COTA when in some cases no competitive advantage was gained but this week a guy is allowed to break a rule to win a race? Makes no sense at all and if Chase had been the beneficiary of this everyone would be crying foul because of NASCAR favoring their golden boy much like when JR was not penalized for passing below the yellow line at Talladega years ago because they were apparently afraid his fans would tear the stands down. No consistency at all.
 
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